1. #15241
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Link that study, because I've been watching Republican numbers and they've basically stayed around the same since 2016.
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...178C782E51E45D

    Need to request the study, but here's what I was referencing.

  2. #15242
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I linked you his 2020 healthcare plan, which uses taxes from capital gains and rolls back Bush and Trump tax cuts for it. You don’t need to mock me, for using the latest information. You don’t need to mock me, for Biden doing exactly what you asked.
    Biden/Democrats already said they're not rolling back the Trump tax cuts so that's out of date.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...trump-tax-cuts

    Democrats are backing away from vows to reverse President Trump’s tax cuts if they take control of the Senate and White House.

    Senate Democrats had suggested they could move quickly on the issue, but now say they are likely to delay stand-alone tax legislation if Democratic nominee Joe Biden is elected president and their party controls the House and Senate.

  3. #15243
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Using out-of-date sources to obscure context is straight from the Fox News playbook.

    This is some really sad cosplay.
    Trump voters already believe Biden will bring M4A... probably the independent Trump voters included. It’s Trump’s actual campaign...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  4. #15244
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...178C782E51E45D

    Need to request the study, but here's what I was referencing.
    That study is about the midterms, which is a completely different kind of election than the general election for the president.

  5. #15245
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points.
    Says whom?
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  6. #15246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I linked you his 2020 healthcare plan, which uses taxes from capital gains and rolls back Bush and Trump tax cuts for it. You don’t need to mock me, for using the latest information. You don’t need to mock me, for Biden doing exactly what you asked.
    Too busy protesting to educate themselves on what they are protesting I guess.

  7. #15247
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Biden/Democrats already said they're not rolling back the Trump tax cuts so that's out of date.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...trump-tax-cuts
    That’s great, Biden didn’t:

    https://joebiden.com/healthcare/#

    As President, Biden will roll back the Trump rate cut for the very wealthy and restore the 39.6% top rate he helped restore when he negotiated an end to the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in 2012.
    Is it still on Biden’s site? Thought so... but, yeah... keep attacking Biden for doing the things you ask... very on brand.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  8. #15248
    I am Murloc! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Says whom?
    Lots of people. Everyone is saying that. The other day this big guy came up to me, very tough guy, and he was crying, and he said "Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points"

    /s
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  9. #15249
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    They are against Trump but they also want things like M4A, the Green New Deal, etc and when they've lost their jobs and are getting evicted en masse, they have nothing left, and threatening them with "but if Trump wins democracy will die and you guys will lose everything" doesn't matter when they've already lost everything. You have to give them something to vote for, like Republicans do for their voters. It might be racist bullshit and fear mongering, but they're still giving them something to vote for besides "we're not the other guy".
    Okay, so they can vote for Biden under whom things at minimum won't get worse (and really, will get better) or they can vote for Trump (or not vote, same difference) and let things get even worse.

    You won't get M4A or GND by sitting out or voting for Trump. Under Biden, at least we'll take some steps in that direction.

  10. #15250
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    That study is about the midterms, which is a completely different kind of election than the general election for the president.
    Do you believe that Trump supporters, including the independent ones, believe that Trump is lying, when he claims Biden will bring the socialist take over that is M4A? You think it’s a better tact to attack Trump and his supporters who claim it’s a communist take over, instead of people who don’t think it can pass GOP Congress?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  11. #15251
    https://www.townofpeterborough.com/v...d-dcc2ef606fe4

    First link in the article, look at the wording on the resolution.

    WOW, EVERYONE WILL GET EVERYTHING COVERED AND IT WON'T COST US MORE AT THE DOCTOR, GREAT!
    WOW, WE'LL GET ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE EVERYWHERE, GREAT!
    WOW, WE'LL SAVE NEARLY $1M LOCALLY SINCE THE FEDS ARE PAYING FOR CITY HEALTH INSURANCE NOW, GREAT!
    WOW, IT HAS PUBLIC SUPPORT!
    WOW, THIS RESOLUTION DOESN'T MATTER!

    Again, this is what I'm talking about: There's broad support for the idea. But start throwing price tags on there, start reminding people that they'll lose their current plans, and get into details and people start getting cold feet.

  12. #15252
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Lots of people. Everyone is saying that. The other day this big guy came up to me, very tough guy, and he was crying, and he said "Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points"

    /s
    You forgot the ‘sir’.

  13. #15253
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Okay, so they can vote for Biden under whom things at minimum won't get worse (and really, will get better) or they can vote for Trump (or not vote, same difference) and let things get even worse.

    You won't get M4A or GND by sitting out or voting for Trump. Under Biden, at least we'll take some steps in that direction.
    Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".

  14. #15254
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Says whom?
    Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!

    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-22 at 08:55 PM.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  15. #15255
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".
    This is literally the Trump platform, and has been a big part of the Republican platform for decades...are you arguing that fear doesn't work as a motivating factor?

  16. #15256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".
    Nah Biden shouldn't appeal to anyone who's too ignorant that they willingly chooses not to vote. If that costs him, he wasn't gonna win anyways.

  17. #15257
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This is literally the Trump platform, and has been a big part of the Republican platform for decades...are you arguing that fear doesn't work as a motivating factor?
    It actually isn't. The things he gave people to vote for were awful, stupid, and racist as fuck, but "building the wall" is a tangible goal to vote for. "I'm not that other guy" or "things will get worse" isn't. Also if you remember, Trump also ran on repealing NAFTA, even though he replaced it with the exact same thing again lol, but he ran on doing that. If you've been paying attention to his rallies lately, he is doing the same thing again.

    I'm sorry but I when watch Joe Biden the majority of what I get from what he says is "my son died" and "we're gonna restore the soul of America". He repeats those 2 things a lot and those are what I remember from his speeches the most because of it, even though I know what his actual policies are and have known since the primaries. He needs to be hammering home his policies over and over again or people won't have any idea what they're voting *for* when they're choosing whether to vote for Biden, most people don't pay as much as attention to politics as you or I do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!
    I think you forgot about the electoral college my dude. He needs to be leading by way more than 2 percentage points.

  18. #15258
    Legendary! PresidentElectMilchschake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Nah Biden shouldn't appeal to anyone who's too ignorant that they willingly chooses not to vote. If that costs him, he wasn't gonna win anyways.
    Didnt you get the memo? Street fightin' Antifa is 10% of the independent vote! Why wont Dems appeal to themmmmm.
    /s
    Welcome to GEN-OT, have a seat, we'll introduce you to the 23-year-old who will lecture you about how Democrats didn't try hard enough to improve the ACA, and once that's all set up you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul up to 2015 to harass you forever.
    "Once bigotry or self-loathing permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance is assigned to the shape of human skulls."
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  19. #15259
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I think you forgot about the electoral college my dude. He needs to be leading by way more than 2 percentage points.
    Did you forget them when saying 10% of independents will vote Trump? Oops?

    Edit: oh and the amount he needs to lead in popular to win the electoral, cannot be defined...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  20. #15260
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I'm sorry but I when watch Joe Biden the majority of what I get from what he says is "my son died" and "we're gonna restore the soul of America".
    You must not see much then. I mean, I don't watch that many of his events but I did catch part of his drive-in town hall and he sure talked about a whole lot that wasn't his son, and while the "restore the soul of America" is a part of it, that's a part of his core campaign messaging. It's about as meaningful as "BUILD THE WALL" is as a slogan.

    And I mean...what do you think "THE WALL" was for? To celebrate Trump? No, it was another fear tactic because those Mexicans with thighs the size of cantaloupes are lugging 50 pounds of weed on their back across the border! The rapists and murderers are coming across the border and you need to be terrified! Only I can save you from this horrific terror that shall lurk on your doorsteps in rural Montana and South Dakota!

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