Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Theodarzna]

Why do you think Tara is as credible as Ford???

I've given my analysis before but I'll restate it:

What hurts Tara's credibility is mainly the question of "Why now?"; which is valid to ask I thought. Why when he is a presidential candidate now and not when he was Obama's VP? Or any time prior? Granted this question was called a sexist misogynistic rape apologia back when people raised it against Ford and I'm told we are never supposed to raise the "Why now?" question. And I am told by big brained experts on sexual assaults that I'm a self hating woman for even thinking such a question is valid.

The things that lend Tara credibility, more than Ford had, are mainly that Tara has corroborating evidence, including corroborating evidence from the time such as the Larry King call in. Christine Blaisy Ford had nothing like that and you went to the mat to declare it the height of ultra-misogyny to question Ford. Of-course now you reverse course purely out of what I presume to be partisanship and loyalty to the party brand. A lot of "My team good, their team bad!" thinking pervades this thread. Which given how Amanda Marcotte, Alyssa Milano and many others have hilariously reveled in betraying their supposed #MeToo values to protect Biden, its not surprising. It is however very delicious that behind all that moral preening from centrist brand safe liberals; the minute an accusation surfaces against "Their Guy" it becomes a haphazard race to do a 180 and hope everyone forgot the rhetoric from before.

Also, to Tara Reade's credit, she didn't just do the obvious easy thing and go straight to Trump like I believe Juanita Broderick did, and some have also come forward such as the former neighbor of Tara's who confirm that Tara has been speaking about this story since the 90's so its hard to claim this is all some partisan ploy or Russian plot given it would have to be one three decades in the making. And if it is, than America best surrender to Russia right now because they have Tzeentchian level powers in scheming and foresight. Plus Tara did try to go through the allegedly "proper channels" but got sand bagged because of whom she was accusing, she did go to Times Up, she did go to lots of reporters but they, like a lot of blatant partisans tend to do elected to refuse any reporting on her story since it could hurt "Their Guy", kinda like a lot of posters in the Epstein thread I started awhile ago came rushing in to claim "Trump didn't do anything, it was the Clintons!" which I called out in that thread. Cause you know, unlike some people, I'm neither a Trumpster nor a party partisan.

[PC2]

Cause you know, unlike some people, I'm neither a Trumpster nor a party partisan.

Well basically you're more of a social right winger and more of an economic left winger. I'm not sure why everybody has to put a single label on everyone instead of just looking at policy positions...

[JohnBrown1917]

Okay yeah, you're a communist which is a fringe position and the large majority of people are conservative and support capitalism.

I mean.. yeah, capitalism is a right-wing system. Took you long enough.

[Theodarzna]

Okay yeah, you're a communist which is a fringe position and the large majority of people are conservative and support capitalism.

Not really, in fact the largest unrepresented group of people are economically pretty much Leftists but socially/culturally more conservative. Very few Americans are actually Ben Shapiro acolytes or Libertarians. I point to the Lee Drutman graph for that:


The "centrists" or Libertarians or that "Socially Liberal.... Fiscally Conservative" or people who take Sargon of Akkad as a serious political thinker (Tragic souls) in the bottom right or middle of the graph are basically a nobody. Like its a popular idea set with the elite classes, they love that libertarian stuff, so if anything Pro-Market/Pro-Capitalism is vastly over-represented in politics, few people are down with that.

[PC2]

Not really, in fact the largest unrepresented group of people are economically pretty much Leftists but socially/culturally more conservative. Very few Americans are actually Ben Shapiro acolytes or Libertarians. I point to the Lee Drutman graph for that:

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3ZjllaU8AAAs-7?format=jpg&name=900x900[IMG]

The "centrists" or Libertarians or that "Socially Liberal.... Fiscally Conservative" or people who take Sargon of Akkad as a serious political thinker (Tragic souls) in the bottom right or middle of the graph are basically a nobody. Like its a popular idea set with the elite classes, they love that libertarian stuff, so if anything Pro-Market/Pro-Capitalism is vastly over-represented in politics, few people are down with that.

Yeah I know but I was responding to a communist so I agree that we live in a capitalist right-wing world from his perspective. To me classifications don't actually matter in a conversation as long as you understand the policy values that the other person is arguing for.

[Beefhammer]

Biden in the 1980's was actually called a "Neo-Liberal", he basically offers Reagonimics, and an economic policy crafted by Larry Summers and likely a foreign policy crafted by Henry Kissinger pr one of the sentient cancer growths excavated from Kissingers colon. So basically a lot of terrible stuff.

Reaganomics was crafted by economist Paul Harvey. Larry Summers was a student at Harvard when trickle down was crafted and not by him.

[Theodarzna]

Reaganomics was crafted by economist Paul Harvey. Larry Summers was a student at Harvard when trickle down was crafted and not by him.

Might want to reread what I wrote, I didn't suggest he invented Reaganomics. Sorry if that was unclear.

[Beefhammer]

Might want to reread what I wrote, I didn't suggest he invented Reaganomics. Sorry if that was unclear.

Got it I did misread.

[Themius]

I've given my analysis before but I'll restate it:

What hurts Tara's credibility is mainly the question of "Why now?"; which is valid to ask I thought. Why when he is a presidential candidate now and not when he was Obama's VP? Or any time prior? Granted this question was called a sexist misogynistic rape apologia back when people raised it against Ford and I'm told we are never supposed to raise the "Why now?" question. And I am told by big brained experts on sexual assaults that I'm a self hating woman for even thinking such a question is valid.

The things that lend Tara credibility, more than Ford had, are mainly that Tara has corroborating evidence, including corroborating evidence from the time such as the Larry King call in. Christine Blaisy Ford had nothing like that and you went to the mat to declare it the height of ultra-misogyny to question Ford. Of-course now you reverse course purely out of what I presume to be partisanship and loyalty to the party brand. A lot of "My team good, their team bad!" thinking pervades this thread. Which given how Amanda Marcotte, Alyssa Milano and many others have hilariously reveled in betraying their supposed #MeToo values to protect Biden, its not surprising. It is however very delicious that behind all that moral preening from centrist brand safe liberals; the minute an accusation surfaces against "Their Guy" it becomes a haphazard race to do a 180 and hope everyone forgot the rhetoric from before.

Also, to Tara Reade's credit, she didn't just do the obvious easy thing and go straight to Trump like I believe Juanita Broderick did, and some have also come forward such as the former neighbor of Tara's who confirm that Tara has been speaking about this story since the 90's so its hard to claim this is all some partisan ploy or Russian plot given it would have to be one three decades in the making. And if it is, than America best surrender to Russia right now because they have Tzeentchian level powers in scheming and foresight. Plus Tara did try to go through the allegedly "proper channels" but got sand bagged because of whom she was accusing, she did go to Times Up, she did go to lots of reporters but they, like a lot of blatant partisans tend to do elected to refuse any reporting on her story since it could hurt "Their Guy", kinda like a lot of posters in the Epstein thread I started awhile ago came rushing in to claim "Trump didn't do anything, it was the Clintons!" which I called out in that thread. Cause you know, unlike some people, I'm neither a Trumpster nor a party partisan.

No what hurts her is her Russia Putin connection and changing stories and seriously she has more credibility???? THE REPUBLICANS SAID FORD WAS CREDIBLE why aren’t they gobbling up this Tara farce. Please.

[Felya]

What hurts Tara's credibility is mainly the question of "Why now?"

No, what hurts it most is when are you supposed to believe her? When she was saying Biden is to be trusted within the last two years? She had nothing to fear and didn’t even have to say if he was or wasn’t honest. She volunteered that information. Ford never claimed Kavanaugh was honest, so trusting her was easier.

Also, do you trust the Trump staffer from 2016? She came out a few months ago... have not seen you say a word. Why not compare that?

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No what hurts her is her Russia Putin connection and changing stories and seriously she has more credibility???? THE REPUBLICANS SAID FORD WAS CREDIBLE why aren’t they gobbling up this Tara farce. Please.

Former Trump campaign staffer drops lawsuit but stands by claims he forcibly kissed her
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/05/polit...ons/index.html

"I am facing a judge who openly questions whether the kiss is worthy of a federal lawsuit and has determined that Mr. Trump's history of such behavior is not relevant, and I've endured on-going threats to my safety," Johnson said. "I've decided for the sake of my family that I will not continue with the case at this time."

Trump supporters threatened her family until she dropped the case. But, people choosing the lesser of two evils are getting chastised? WTF?

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I need an explanation from those attacking Biden... Is Trump’s staffer claiming Trump kissed her without her permission in 2016 without merit? Replace Trump campaign will not work? What’s the issue here? Why is no one asking for Trump to be replaced with Pence? Impeachment? Anything? He did this, less than 4 years ago and Trump supporters threatened her until she dropped it.

[arandomuser]

ok amash is in, interesting to see if a high profile center right politician helps our hurts trump, i think it will hurt trump because like i said there is alot of people whos only disagreements on democrats are highly divisive social issues even though the democrats economic policies are highly favorable, 2nd amendment and aborton. amash has the conservative record on those issues BUT hes also against trump, theres a chance he could get alot of those votes, and it would be a good counter balance to the green party which plans to siphon off far-left voters from the democratic party

[Theodarzna]

No what hurts her is her Russia Putin connection and changing stories and seriously she has more credibility???? THE REPUBLICANS SAID FORD WAS CREDIBLE why aren’t they gobbling up this Tara farce. Please.

The "Putin" thing is rather dubious given we have corroborations from the 1990's thanks to the Larry King show; indicating SOMETHING went down. Again if this was a Putin plot, than it predates Putin's power over Russia and extends back to the early 90's shortly after the Soviet Union fell, making this a plot Tzeentch himself could not even devise. Like that is some ridiculous levels of foresight to have the mom call in the early 90's on the off chance Biden specifically runs for office. This is one wild conspiracy theory you are spinning to protect what looks like partisan hypocrisy.

Also via reporting Rich McHugh she was involved in a creative writing class which is the reason for her Russia writings, but even if her writings are legit love and praise of Russia and Putin, do women who like Russia or even Putin become open season for rape? A bold stance to take, one that sounds a bit MRA/INCELish, a bit you know rape apology like, spicy and edgy. Very based and redpilled. How on Earth writing a story about Putin or Russia that was positive makes her immune from rape or it impossible to have happened kinda flies in the face of a lot of what we are told about how we should treat rape survivors. Sounds a bit like "But she dresses like a whore" or "Is a prostitute" kinda talk. And again, if the suggestion is that she is a secret agent and its a plot from Moscow, this is a plot that got set up in 1993 with a Larry King call by her mom who I guess was in on it?

Christine Blaisy Ford has the issue of, well, unlike Reade, there is zero evidence she was ever actually at the party other than her word , and a friend couldn't for sure say she was there or not. Which granted it was a 30 year old party, but still. Reade can show receipts proving she was in the location and Biden employee at the time. Keyser was Ford's friend but was unable to corroborate the story, but she did importantly believe it. It is also worth nothing that by the fall of 2019, that same teenage years bestie came to believe that the assault on Ford didn’t happen. Were as Reade has a self described Biden voter saying "Yeah, Reade was upset about some funny business" and it was at that time. So I guess this neighbor is another secret Putin psyop agent? Keyser also confirmed reports that Ford's legal team pressured her to back Ford's story, even making threats. And I recall big Ford supporters such as Ruth Marcus (Author of Supreme Ambition: Brett Kavanaugh and the Conservative Takeover) writing off Keyser as an unreliable drunkard with memory problems because of it, something that is rather problematic to claim. Reade has actual contemporary corroboration on tape that SOMETHING happened, Ford has none from the time, waited 30 years and her best friend couldn't recall anything and later said she felt pressured. Plus, for Reade, Unlike Ford, Reade has evidence she has been talking about this for awhile, where as Ford forgot the issue until Kavannaugh was nominated to the SCOTUS 30 years later. She definitely didn't tell anything to Keyser her bestie at the time.

Sorry, it just looks like Partisan blinders. You believe one story because its politically convenient, you are skeptical of another because its politically convenient.

[Felya]

ok amash is in, interesting to see if a high profile center right politician helps our hurts trump, i think it will hurt trump because like i said there is alot of people whos only disagreements on democrats are highly divisive social issues even though the democrats economic policies are highly favorable, 2nd amendment and aborton. amash has the conservative record on those issues BUT hes also against trump, theres a chance he could get alot of those votes, and it would be a good counter balance to the green party which plans to siphon off far-left voters from the democratic party

If it’s Jesse Ventura, it will balance it self out. He will pull every conspiracy theorist that might be losing patience with Trump revealing aliens and flat earth.

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Sorry, it just looks like Partisan blinders. You believe one story because its politically convenient, you are skeptical of another because its politically convenient.

Why are you ignoring the a Trump accuser from 2016, that shares a lot more similarly, than Ford? But, it happened in 2016 and she dropped charges in September, due to threats from Trump supporters.

I will repeat, Trump has not stopped his assaults. The last one was in 2016... Why is he being let of the hook?

[beanman12345]

ok amash is in, interesting to see if a high profile center right politician helps our hurts trump, i think it will hurt trump because like i said there is alot of people whos only disagreements on democrats are highly divisive social issues even though the democrats economic policies are highly favorable, 2nd amendment and aborton. amash has the conservative record on those issues BUT hes also against trump, theres a chance he could get alot of those votes, and it would be a good counter balance to the green party which plans to siphon off far-left voters from the democratic party

Well there goes any chance of Trump winning Michigan this time around. Amash won't win it, but he'll be just enough of a spoiler there for Trump to lose it imo.

[Felya]

Oh an update on Russian news... Trump love affair has changed a bit. Just about every news show in Russia, now starts with them showing how awful US is doing and just shitting on how dumb Trump is. Since... you know... they sorta fucked up and are using Trump as cover. It’s sad... but, funny... no... just sad... but...

Edit: I got to tell ya... we got a call from US when Chernobyl blew up, before we even knew it happened in Kiev. Watching Trump lie and Russia point it out, is surreal... but, hey... at least it’s not the socialist part of communism... eh?

[jonnysensible]

Oh an update on Russian news... Trump love affair has changed a bit. Just about every news show in Russia, now starts with them showing how awful US is doing and just shitting on how dumb Trump is. Since... you know... they sorta fucked up and are using Trump as cover. It’s sad... but, funny... no... just sad... but...

Всё идёт по плану

[Felya]

Всё идёт по плану

Everything going to plan... in case people are wondering.

[I Push Buttons]

No what hurts her is her Russia Putin connection and changing stories and seriously she has more credibility???? THE REPUBLICANS SAID FORD WAS CREDIBLE why aren’t they gobbling up this Tara farce. Please.

She literally turned the reveal of her 'survivor story' into a Bernie Sanders ad.

"I was sexually assaulted by Biden! #BernieSanders2020#NotMeUs"



That should tell you just about all you need to know about her credibility.

---

As an aside, leftist are being hypocrites about this woman compared to Ford and I am glad the #MeToo movement is tearing itself apart over it... I am tired of #BelieveWomen bullshit. If your only evidence of some alleged assault against you decades ago is your word then fuck off.

If you get sexually assaulted, go to the police so evidence can be collected.

Your word, or anyone's word alone means absolutely fucking nothing to me.

[Draco-Onis]

Milchshake refereed to Ryan Grim and the Intercept who broke this story as the "Putincept" and Themius and Orbitus have said that the story must be a political ploy or untrue.

There are plot holes in her story especially given that Biden was VP for 8 years and she didn't lack opportunity to out him but instead supported him. My stance is still the same for a fair investigation on the matter but as stated before it's impossible under this administration.

As for me "defending the right". I called Donald Trump a likely kid diddler that needed to go to jail and that it was the scandal of the century. So its hard to say I'm some water carrier for any particular side. You just seem to winge that I'm not a water carrier for your side.

You've disagreed with Trump on some subjects and called him out when you feel uncomfortable but you've spent the last 4 years being very supportive of his nationalist platform and attacked anything from the left. I maybe mistaken but not too long ago you were calling Warren a Neo liberal or something to that affect.

[eschatological]

ok amash is in, interesting to see if a high profile center right politician helps our hurts trump, i think it will hurt trump because like i said there is alot of people whos only disagreements on democrats are highly divisive social issues even though the democrats economic policies are highly favorable, 2nd amendment and aborton. amash has the conservative record on those issues BUT hes also against trump, theres a chance he could get alot of those votes, and it would be a good counter balance to the green party which plans to siphon off far-left voters from the democratic party

Well there goes any chance of Trump winning Michigan this time around. Amash won't win it, but he'll be just enough of a spoiler there for Trump to lose it imo.

I think it's actually kind of the opposite. I'll paraphrase a tweet I read: it'll siphon off two potential groups of Biden voters:

1) Conservatives disgusted by Trump who don't want to vote for him,
and
2) people with no ideology who see a chance to feel special by voting for neither party.


My personal opinion, the 2nd group were probably going to vote 3rd party or not vote at all, but there's more of a non-insignificant portion of potential Biden voters there than Trump voters, who are more locked in.