Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Adam Jensen]

Why do you like racists like Trump so much?

Birds of a feather

[Logwyn]

In one corner we got a senile old racist/rapist and in the other corner, we got another senile old racist/rapist?


Which one will win? We don't know! Oh the excitement!

Could always vote for this guy. He wants you to have a pony and good dental hygiene.

[Lenonis]

I don't know man.

I'm confused by your post...you voted Clinton when you wanted Sanders because of the judicary...Clinton lost and the outcome was terrible.

So you are faced with the same decision with perhaps even more on the line and...you are hesitating? I'm not sure how not voting for Biden would help get the outcome you wanted?

Maybe I missed something? Hard to interpret tone so sorry if I just missed the point entirely.

[Endus]

maybe if you would put forward a good enough candidate you wouldn't be whining about bernie supporters not voting for him. just saying. it will be your camps own damn fault if you lose this election. but of course rather than being an adult and taking responsibility for having a shitty candidate biden supporters resort to blaming everyone else for their candidates lack of appeal. sounds quite familiar almost like we've been down this road before....

He's the candidate Democrats wanted.

As demonstrated through the primaries.

Where he was doing significantly better than Bernie Sanders, overall.

He's objectively not a "shitty candidate". He garnered way more delegate votes than anyone else in the running. If you want to go by that kind of metric, Sanders was objectively shittier as a candidate.

What people are taking issue with is supposedly-progressive Bernie supporters who'd rather see a Trump Presidency second term than see Biden win the election. That's the discussion, at this point. Not "who would you have rathered be the Democratic candidate against Trump." Who would you rather; Trump or Biden.

Choosing to not vote out of apathy says that you're perfectly content supporting whoever wins. Even if that's Trump. If you find that objectionable, then yes, you should be voting for Biden. That's how democracy works. You don't write in your most-perfect favorite choice, or refuse to participate. You look at the candidates actually on the table, and you pick the least bad one. If you won't, then you're implicitly saying you think they're equally bad, so you can't effectively pick. And if you think Trump and Biden are equally bad, I'm gonna suggest you need to pay more fucking attention.

[JohnBrown1917]

Could always vote for this guy. He wants you to have a pony and good dental hygiene.

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Vermin_Supreme_August_2019.jpg/800px-Vermin_Supreme_August_2019.jpg[IMG]

If I could illegally vote in the US, I would.

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He's the candidate Democrats wanted.

As demonstrated through the primaries..

True, but that does not mean a lot of people on the left are not going to hate them for being a senile old war criminal/racist.


They can pick whoever they want, does not mean he is not a shitty human being.

[Adam Jensen]

I'm confused by your post...you voted Clinton when you wanted Sanders because of the judicary...Clinton lost and the outcome was terrible.

So you are faced with the same decision with perhaps even more on the line and...you are hesitating? I'm not sure how not voting for Biden would help get the outcome you wanted?

Maybe I missed something? Hard to interpret tone so sorry if I just missed the point entirely.

I'm faced with the same decision and annoyed that it has to be the same decision. I'm voting for Biden because the alternative is so much worse, but of all the candidates that ran in the primaries, most were better options than Biden.

[Kasierith]

I'm faced with the same decision and annoyed that it has to be the same decision. I'm voting for Biden because the alternative is so much worse, but of all the candidates that ran in the primaries, most were better options than Biden.

Don't know about most. It's hard to ignore the gender thing with Warren; even if she was my personal pick, in a numbers game enough people thinking that a woman isn't strong enough to hold the presidency in the wrong places would be hugely detrimental. Like with Clinton, things that have historically been brushed aside or outright accepted by men have been put down to her "screeching." And like with Clinton, she's had mud slung at her for years.

Same with Buttigieg, my second choice in terms of who I think do a good job as president. He is young, inexperienced compared to the rest of the ticket, and while it shouldn't matter.. his orientation would likely have been overall detrimental in the places of the country where the democratic nominee needs the votes. That's a ton of ammo being handed to the Republican party, to use at will.

Bloomberg by all appearances was simply running to see how much pouring massive amounts of money into the race could take him. The answer was not very far.

Klubacher has similar problems to Warren, but with less name recognition and less mud slung at her. She would have been more of a wildcard pick. Especially since so many of her policies to me seemed to simply be middle of the road for the democratic ticket, meaning she didn't have a strong voice (as opposed to Warren who has been strongly positioned against corporate overreach for a very, very long time).

Tulsi Gabbard ran on party reform and populism to distinguish herself. Which means she had no real presence with the giant that is Bernie Sanders running on the same ticket.

And lastly, Sanders... who lost 2016 heavily to Clinton, and lost in 2020 both going for a plurality before the ticket started becoming more streamlined, and head on with Biden. At this point, I can't help but think that all the people putting up Sanders as a surefire win are nothing short of deluding themselves, because to put it simply.. in three rounds, 2016 2020 plurality 2020 one on one, he's lost all three. And his name and his policies have the most recognition of anyone on the entire ticket.

So who exactly among the frontrunners is so much more better placed, to the point where you can with so much assurance state that they were a better choice than Biden? Three that are maybe, three that are a laughable no, and a few straggles who no one remembers.

[cubby]

He's the candidate Democrats wanted.

As demonstrated through the primaries.

Where he was doing significantly better than Bernie Sanders, overall.

He's objectively not a "shitty candidate". He garnered way more delegate votes than anyone else in the running. If you want to go by that kind of metric, Sanders was objectively shittier as a candidate.

What people are taking issue with is supposedly-progressive Bernie supporters who'd rather see a Trump Presidency second term than see Biden win the election. That's the discussion, at this point. Not "who would you have rathered be the Democratic candidate against Trump." Who would you rather; Trump or Biden.

Choosing to not vote out of apathy says that you're perfectly content supporting whoever wins. Even if that's Trump. If you find that objectionable, then yes, you should be voting for Biden. That's how democracy works. You don't write in your most-perfect favorite choice, or refuse to participate. You look at the candidates actually on the table, and you pick the least bad one. If you won't, then you're implicitly saying you think they're equally bad, so you can't effectively pick. And if you think Trump and Biden are equally bad, I'm gonna suggest you need to pay more fucking attention.

I have said this before, and will in the future - the above is entirely correct. We're also starting to see Russian Troll Farms coming out with the narrative addressed below, pushing that agenda to divide the DNC.

[Lenonis]

I'm faced with the same decision and annoyed that it has to be the same decision. I'm voting for Biden because the alternative is so much worse, but of all the candidates that ran in the primaries, most were better options than Biden.

Gotcha. Understood. And yeah, it's not great we ended up here, but here is where we are.

[Telogrus]

"I'm voting against my own interests because someone was mean to me on twitter" is not a compelling argument.

That’s literally the exact same argument that Dems were using to not vote for Bernie at the start of the primaries lmao

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When did this happen?

Pretty much everywhere on the news and internet

Turns out that arguing that you shouldn’t vote for Bernie in the primary because his supporters are toxic losers isn’t a good way to make those “toxic losers” stay loyal to the Democrats

[Lenonis]

That’s literally the exact same argument that Dems were using to not vote for Bernie at the start of the primaries lmao

That's also not a good argument. Glad we cleared that up.

[Machismo]

That’s literally the exact same argument that Dems were using to not vote for Bernie at the start of the primaries lmao

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Pretty much everywhere on the news and internet

Turns out that arguing that you shouldn’t vote for Bernie in the primary because his supporters are toxic losers isn’t a good way to make those “toxic losers” stay loyal to the Democrats

I don't recall all those times when Biden supporters discouraged Bernie supporters to not vote for Biden. Perhaps you can show when that was with some evidence.

[breadisfunny]

He's the candidate Democrats wanted.

As demonstrated through the primaries.

Where he was doing significantly better than Bernie Sanders, overall.

He's objectively not a "shitty candidate". He garnered way more delegate votes than anyone else in the running. If you want to go by that kind of metric, Sanders was objectively shittier as a candidate.

What people are taking issue with is supposedly-progressive Bernie supporters who'd rather see a Trump Presidency second term than see Biden win the election. That's the discussion, at this point. Not "who would you have rathered be the Democratic candidate against Trump." Who would you rather; Trump or Biden.

Choosing to not vote out of apathy says that you're perfectly content supporting whoever wins. Even if that's Trump. If you find that objectionable, then yes, you should be voting for Biden. That's how democracy works. You don't write in your most-perfect favorite choice, or refuse to participate. You look at the candidates actually on the table, and you pick the least bad one. If you won't, then you're implicitly saying you think they're equally bad, so you can't effectively pick. And if you think Trump and Biden are equally bad, I'm gonna suggest you need to pay more fucking attention.

refusing to vote is not the same as supporting trump knock it off with the false equivalency bs. biden is NOT entitled to my vote. i am NOT obligated to vote for anyone. trying to guilt trip me into supporting a candidate i don't like isn't going to work. if there are no candidates i can support then i refuse to vote at all. i do not buy the south park narrative of vote for the less shitty candidate.

[nonameelf]

So do Sanders and his supporters own his loss? Or does this only work one direction because you want it to?

And, again, no matter what you say each person owns the consequences of their vote at the end of the day. They may have reasons, justification or whatnot, but that doesn't mean they don't get to avoid getting called out for causing the outcome.

You nominate a bad candidate that loses you don't get to pass the blame on to others. And you all know he's a bad candidate, that's why you're already trying to pass the blame on to others.

[eschatological]

That’s literally the exact same argument that Dems were using to not vote for Bernie at the start of the primaries lmao

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Pretty much everywhere on the news and internet

Turns out that arguing that you shouldn’t vote for Bernie in the primary because his supporters are toxic losers isn’t a good way to make those “toxic losers” stay loyal to the Democrats

Except we would vote for Bernie......had he won the Democratic nomination. At least on this forum.

The primary is time to choose between Democratic candidates by making small differentiations between them. Once the general comes around, it's time to vote for the Dem because the alternative is that much worse. Biden is nowhere near my top choice for a candidate. But because I'm able to compromise and generally function as an adult, I'm still voting for him come November, because he's light years better than Trump. And anyone who suggests they aren't, are being disingenuous as fuck.

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refusing to vote is not the same as supporting trump knock it off with the false equivalency bs. biden is NOT entitled to my vote. i am NOT obligated to vote for anyone. trying to guilt trip me into supporting a candidate i don't like isn't going to work. if there are no candidates i can support then i refuse to vote at all. i do not buy the south park narrative of vote for the less shitty candidate.

Try this argument anywhere else in the world. It's your duty as a citizen to vote, if not your obligation. You are shirking that duty.

[Endus]

refusing to vote is not the same as supporting trump knock it off with the false equivalency bs.

It means you support Trump as much as you do Biden. That's what I said. You think they're equally bad options, and thus cannot support one over the other.

Again; democracy is not about getting your way. It's about nudging the process by voting for the least objectionable candidate. The only way you can legitimately say that you can't make a decision in that sense is if you think all options are equally bad.

biden is NOT entitled to my vote. i am NOT obligated to vote for anyone.

Literally never said you were in any way obliged to vote for anyone.

But if you choose not to, that does say something about your motivations and desired outcomes, and people are free to draw conclusions about you and your views as a result of your decisions.

To put it another way, you're not obligated to eat a healthy lunch. You're free to eat dogshit off the street, if you want to. But anyone watching you do so is gonna draw some conclusions about you as a result of your choices.

trying to guilt trip me into supporting a candidate i don't like isn't going to work. if there are no candidates i can support then i refuse to vote at all. i do not buy the south park narrative of vote for the less shitty candidate.

There is no "guilt trip". I'm pointing out that choosing to not vote means you think the candidates are equally bad options. This is how democracy works. It is not a system that works through mass acclaim. It's a system that works through basically nobody getting what they really want, because they have to compromise with everyone else.

Your position isn't really much different from when racists complain that it's "unfair" that they get "shamed" for their views. The public has a right to form an opinion based on your publicly-demonstrated character. If you don't like what they're gonna think, maybe reconsider how misinformed your position is.

[God Save The King]

Despite my preference, I view this as handing Trump another 4 years in the White House. Hopefully I'm wrong come November, but I can't really see him getting voted out of office. Of all the Democratic hopefuls, Biden was easily the least suited to face Trump in the general election. People didn't want Hillary, they won't want an older, crazier Hillary.

[LordKain]

refusing to vote is not the same as supporting trump knock it off with the false equivalency bs. biden is NOT entitled to my vote. i am NOT obligated to vote for anyone. trying to guilt trip me into supporting a candidate i don't like isn't going to work. if there are no candidates i can support then i refuse to vote at all. i do not buy the south park narrative of vote for the less shitty candidate.

I agree with you 100% breadisfunny. Dementia Joe is not entitled to my vote...and I couldn't give 2 shit what anyone thinks. I don't owe the DNC anything. Not voting blue no matter who.

Enjoy 4 more years of Trump.

[eschatological]

Despite my preference, I view this as handing Trump another 4 years in the White House. Hopefully I'm wrong come November, but I can't really see him getting voted out of office. Of all the Democratic hopefuls, Biden was easily the least suited to face Trump in the general election. People didn't want Hillary, they won't want an older, crazier Hillary.

I think people underestimate the fact that it wasn't Hillary's policies or moderatism or even her corporatism that people didn't vote for. They didn't vote for her, as a person. And that has a lot of factors, probably the biggest being that for 30 years the GOP had so much steam blowing from their ears over made up scandals that the steam appeared like smoke, indicating some sort of fire that was never really there.

Biden is actually liked by Middle America. And has been, for a long time.

[Machismo]

I agree with you 100% breadisfunny. Dementia Joe is not entitled to my vote...and I couldn't give 2 shit what anyone thinks. I don't owe the DNC anything. Not voting blue no matter who.

Enjoy 4 more years of Trump.

Does anyone actually think you are anything but a Trump supporter?