Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Edge-]

Who is Briahna Joy Gray?

She seems like a good person:

She's Sanders former spokeswoman. And apparently a bit of a piece of shit - https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/stat...89642777571328

Goes after Harris, well after the race is over, for tweeting support for free coronavirus testing and treatment. For what sin? Because she apparently wants people with cancer and diabetes to die. Few problems with this -

1. Harris supports M4A. Not exactly Sanders exact plan, but she supports it and supported it during her campaign - https://www.vox.com/2019/7/29/893325...vate-insurance

So this is Shaun King levels of stupid when he went after one of the co-sponsors of a M4A bill for...not supporting M4A.

2. Sanders mother died of cancer after a long struggle, and they were not rich when Harris was growing up. This is monumentally ignorant and tone-deaf, and she's rightfully being dragged by pretty much everyone for being an insensitive bitch more interested in scoring social media political points than being informed.

3. Again, literally irrelevant. This is just her being spiteful and hateful to try to score "gotcha" points and add to her wall of "totes sick burns I did on Twitter/Insta today"

So naw, I'm not gonna listen to her uninformed, unhinged rants. I'm pretty cool without that, thanks.

Though I will say this after reading the first sentence: Encouraging others to refuse to compromise? Man, where the hell have we heard this befor-oh right, that sounds totally Tea Party/Freedom Caucus-esque, and those are totes the kinds of people I'd want to saddle up with.

Progressives appear to be doing their damndest to boost Republicans for the next election, and it's weird as fuck.

[Endus]

Seems a bit misconstrued to treat one unhappy even if neutral tweet as some sort of heinous attack that describes her character.

What is the most important in that message:
"We should not just start handing out free healthcare during a crises but always"
-or-
"Kamilla Harris is being attacked!"

I think there might be something off with the people who decide to focus on the latter.

Also, why would it be wrong to try and get Biden more towards the left?

They're very much willing to compromise, -if- Biden is willing to take on some more left policies... which he currently refuses to do. So it appears to me as if Biden is the one who is unwilling to compromise here.

The tweet only makes sense if she presumes that Harris was saying that "Testing and treatment for only coronavirus needs to be free." That bold and underlined word I added clearly changes the position, into an implicit argument against universal healthcare. And it's not what Harris said. Implying that she did is dishonest as fuck, and as someone who's worked in political campaigning, Gray should have fucking known that.

There is no way to draw the implication Gray drew from what Harris actually said. It's a bullshit attempt at a "gotcha" that involves essentially lying about what Harris said.

That it's a lie that cluelessly attacks Harris and further implies a lack of consideration for Harris' own mother just makes it worse.

[Felya]

We can not judge a person by one unhappy tweet they made of which we don't even know the underlying intents or purpose.

Claiming that we can judge a person by one tweet would be very idiotic.

What if said judgment was made in a tweet, would it still be “very idiotic”?

[Endus]

We can not judge a person by one unhappy tweet they made of which we don't even know the underlying intents or purpose.

Claiming that we can judge a person by one tweet would be very idiotic.

1> Given that she lied, in that tweet, to malign someone for something they never said, we absolutely can.

2> This is literally what Gray was doing, herself. Why is it fair for her to judge Harris (ignoring that it was slanderously dishonest for the moment), but not fair for us to judge Gray in the same manner?

[Felya]

I'm rejecting it as an argument. Feel free to provide others though.

His argument is the same as yours, judging people based on one tweet is very idiotic. Why is that bad, just minutes after you emphasized “very idiotic”?

[Endus]

So her message of wanting M4A is a bad thing now?

Well, at least we can tell why you're backing Gray so hard; you're willing to engage in the same dishonest strategy of making shit up and pretending it's what someone said.

Because I never said anything like that. There's no way to get even that implication out of my posts. You're just being slanderous and baiting me.

Come drop the bullshit. If the only argument against her you have is one unhappy tweet in which she is encouraging other Democrats to push for more left-ish policies, then that is a very weak argument.

I'm rejecting it as an argument. Feel free to provide others though.

Go back and read my posts.

My issue was her willfully misrepresenting Harris' stance and argument, to slander Harris.

I don't give her a pass on that dishonesty because of her ideological goal. I don't overlook unethical behaviour just because it's supposedly on "my side".

[Endus]

Okay, so now what?

Still seems pretty dumb to judge someone over one ambiguous tweet.

1> That's literally what Gray did (except it's worse, because she had to lie about that tweet to imagine-up the supposed "ambiguity")

2> Why? She lied about what Harris said. That's not "ambiguous", and it's perfectly legitimate to judge someone a liar for lying. Particularly if they later defend the lie; https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/stat...104708?lang=en

[JohnBrown1917]

We can not judge a person by one unhappy tweet they made of which we don't even know the underlying intents or purpose.

Claiming that we can judge a person by one tweet would be very idiotic.

Left-wing people who want free healthcare and don't support conservatives - Bad.
Everybody else - good(As long as they lick Biden's boots).


when will you people learn!?




--

But yeah, calling politicians out over only supporting free corona-care should be done. Its pure PR for those fucks if they fight against universal healthcare at the same time as saying anything related to corona should be free.

[Edge-]

Left-wing people who want free healthcare and don't support conservatives - Bad.

Literally not a part of this discussion. You're taking a page from Gray's book and making some shit up.

[JohnBrown1917]

Literally not a part of this discussion. You're taking a page from Gray's book and making some shit up.

whatever dude, you all do this everytime people like Gray shit on your favorite right-wing politicians.
Nobody is buying this shit.


Aside from your fellow liberal-conservatives.

[Milchshake]

Lol vindication for me and @Elegiac.

We kept pointing out how toxic Bri was to the Sanders campaign.

Now she's basically a Fox News copypasta machine.

[Edge-]

whatever dude, you all do this everytime people like Gray shit on your favorite right-wing politicians.

Harris ain't right wing, and she's not even one of my "favorite politicians".

And none of that changes the fact that Gray was objectively wrong in her accusation and so are you.

[Machismo]

Lol vindication for me and @Elegiac.

We kept pointing out how toxic Bri was to the Sanders campaign.

Now she's basically a Fox News copypasta machine.

Who is Bri?

Edit: nevermind

[Machismo]

There was no accusation. She posed a question.

Has Harris ever answered on the question?

A normal person would've answered with "You're right!" not with "No, fuck the poor," - which is basically what you seem to be doing right now.

Where did she say, "Fuck the poor?"

Or, are you doing the exact same thing others are saying Gray is doing? Oops.

[Theodarzna]

This is objectively entirely false.

She was commenting on something. She wasn't judging Harris. Or forming an opinion about Harris.



This is also false. It is very ambiguous. Her tweet could just as well be read as: "great, but let's do more".
I'm not seeing what you're supposedly seeing in that message. It comes across as if you and Edge are arguing that Harris was attacked with some sort of "YOU ARE A HORRIBLE PERSON FOR SUGGESTING THIS!"-type of comment. That sort of comment simply isn't there, no matter how hard you are trying to discredit progressives to protect ultra-capitalist centrist democrats.

Also, it feels a bit ridiculous to have this back-and-forth discussion over a tweet that was pulled out of who knows where.

What is perhaps most fascinating is that some people who post here, if you read across many posts seems to occupy two conflicting positions:

Position One: That the democratic party is pragmatic, incremental and people shouldn't expect too much from it. That politics is messy and compromise has to happen and its unreasonable for these socialists Lefties to expect anything expensive, difficult, or groundbreaking from them.

AND

Position Two: You the voter must have a fanatical zeal for the Democratic Party despite likely never seeing your political goals realized, you cannot ever be critical and must adopt a view and attitude that everything the DNC and Dems do is for the best, was the best option, and that Dems and the DNC are a Light unto America, and its greatest crystallization of all that is good in the United States. To say otherwise is helping the enemy.

So we both cannot expect a Universal Health Care program in our lifetimes, but to point out that we are never getting that Universal Healthcare program is a sin and heresy against The Party. What we have here is an unthinking fanboy. You have to both accept that the Democrats won't give or seriously advocate for the policies you and Leftists want, but also you must display a level of enthusiastic love of that party as if it actually was going to do the things you want.

In another way, you both have to stay with a cheating abusive boyfriend, but also outwardly and inwardly feel for that boyfriend as if he were Gods gift to you. This is a bonkers view of politics that only fanatically fanboyism can produce.

- - - Updated - - -

There was no accusation. She posed a question.

Has Harris ever answered on the question?

A normal person would've answered with "You're right!" not with "No, fuck the poor," - which is basically what you seem to be doing right now.

How anyone could read Gray's tweet as an "accusation", I mean, is anyone allowed to criticize any Democrat ever on anything?

[Edge-]

There was no accusation. She posed a question.

When did you stop beating your wife?

Is that "just a question", or is there an accusation baked into that question?

Because that's literally what she did.

Has Harris ever answered on the question?

Much like "When did you stop beating your wife?", this question doesn't deserve a response.

A normal person would've answered with "You're right!" not with "No, fuck the poor," - which is basically what you seem to be doing right now.

A "normal" person doesn't give nutters like this the attention/oxygen they need to survive. They rightfully ignore them and their nonsense. Life isn't all about farming those likes and RT's for sick social media burns.

[Lenonis]

whatever dude, you all do this everytime people like Gray shit on your favorite right-wing politicians.
Nobody is buying this shit.


Aside from your fellow liberal-conservatives.

You might want to read your own posts on here before you go throwing those particular stones.

[Levelfive]

There was no accusation. She posed a question.

Has Harris ever answered on the question?

A normal person would've answered with "You're right!" not with "No, fuck the poor," - which is basically what you seem to be doing right now.

That's an interesting accusation to make, considering you're all for "fucking the poor":

You also have a moral compass that points you toward the less politically correct people and yet you also think "fuck the poor"?

Yes.

But only the ones that do absolutely nothing.

...

I'm sorry to tell them that the Democratic Party should also have room for the poor people and for working class people, no matter how hard they try to exclude them.

What a phony you are.

[Gestopft]

1. Harris supports M4A. Not exactly Sanders exact plan, but she supports it and supported it during her campaign - https://www.vox.com/2019/7/29/893325...vate-insurance

So this is Shaun King levels of stupid when he went after one of the co-sponsors of a M4A bill for...not supporting M4A.

2. Sanders mother died of cancer after a long struggle, and they were not rich when Harris was growing up. This is monumentally ignorant and tone-deaf, and she's rightfully being dragged by pretty much everyone for being an insensitive bitch more interested in scoring social media political points than being informed.

3. Again, literally irrelevant. This is just her being spiteful and hateful to try to score "gotcha" points and add to her wall of "totes sick burns I did on Twitter/Insta today"

I think 1. and 3. are fair, but 2. is ridiculous. Yes, Harris's mother died of cancer: who doesn't have a relative that died of cancer?

Though I will say this after reading the first sentence: Encouraging others to refuse to compromise? Man, where the hell have we heard this befor-oh right, that sounds totally Tea Party/Freedom Caucus-esque, and those are totes the kinds of people I'd want to saddle up with.

Everyone has their own lines that they draw; they're just drawn in different places.

And as to Progressives and compromise, sure there are some that don't want to. Again: everyone has their own lines. But Progressives generally make two major complaints vis a vis compromise that can help you understand things in context. One is the perception that Republicans don't compromise until votes are being scrambled for, whereas Democrats compromise by starting with a position they think the GoP will accept. The result of this, from the Progressive perspective, is that Democrats' constant willingness to reach out while the Republicans hold fast means that policy keeps getting moving to the right. The other is money in politics, which Progressives see as fundamentally corrupt. I think the objection is that reaching a compromise with someone coming from an inherently corrupt position results in an inherently corrupted result.

[Levelfive]

I'm sure it's very easy to think you have some sort of gotcha there, but you don't.

There is an extreme minority among the lower class / poor who abuse social safety nets. My position on those sort of people has always been consistent. Just like my position on criminals is consistent. This is no different.

We hardly have social safety nets to "abuse," unless you're rich, so your "consistency" continues to be morally repugnant. And you're a hypocritical, generally uninformed phony for a variety of reasons, that's just the most recent.