Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Puupi]

Good point... there is no point to the argument any longer (sorry Macho). The original premise has been confirmed, with someone trying to spam his failures away:

It's funny how Jettisawn formulated his argument, however - sort of in his defense - Bernie Sanders might identify himself as a democratic socialist, but his policies are not democratic socialism. They are hardly even social democratic policies, really watered down versions of something that have been active in Europe for decades.

Democratic socialism is something entirely different then.

Sanders' policies are realpolitik; he is adjusting his ideal policies to the society he lives in.

[Machismo]

One emoji isn't spam. By definition.

Taking post that had nothing to do with what was being discussed to highlight a point I never made isn't "Evidence".

Well, it's a good thing I provided all that evidence, enjoy!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Good point... there is no point to the argument any longer (sorry Macho). The original premise has been confirmed, with someone trying to spam his failures away:

You are probably right, I already proved myself to be correct, and already proved that he was being a hypocrite.

I'm sure he'll continue shitting on the chess board.

[Felya]

You are probably right, I already proved myself to be correct, and already proved that he was being a hypocrite.

We both did... that’s why it was necessary to bring it back to the basics. We can now wait for a better candidate than Biden, while knowing that in principle, he recognizes that winning the electoral college is the game. Not ideological purity or the think of the children bullshit...

[Edge-]

Just a not as bad of candidate on some issue, Trump's own failure and inability to not say the silent parts out loud helped stop a lot of bad legislation Some Biden would have signed given his past votes in the senate as a moderate democrat.

Like what, specifically?

[Felya]

It's funny how Jettisawn formulated his argument, however - sort of in his defense - Bernie Sanders might identify himself as a democratic socialist, but his policies are not democratic socialism. They are hardly even social democratic policies, really watered down versions of something that have been active in Europe for decades.

Democratic socialism is something entirely different then.

Sanders' policies are realpolitik; he is adjusting his ideal policies to the society he lives in.

Sure, but that wasn’t my point. I went with exactly what Bernie called it, to simply avoid disagreement. I think I have a better way to explain it...

The chances of anyone implementing Bernie’s policy, is Biden... by far... not even remotely close. The second most likely, is Trump... simply because the possibility of anyone else winning are astronomical, before we get to policy. What’s the objective vote, if you want the best chance for Bernie policy? It’s that simple...

[Felya]

That, the problem, there isn't a better candidate.

Stop right there... I want a quote... I want you to say there isn’t a better candidate than Biden, without pretense. You just said it, so it should be easy to feed me an easily quotable text. I’ll simply post it, every time there is a disagreement over you being a Trump supporter or some shit. It would save pages of this bull shit in the future...

- - - Updated - - -

Well there was Worse than NAFTA the TPP.

https://truthout.org/articles/joe-bi...nly-real-shot/

As for his past votes and policies. All of which should be considered in a general election.

https://activatenow.us/the-long-list...rrible-record/

What’s the difference between NAFTA and the one Trump signed? Why do you think it would be helpful to US workers, if there were no trade deals for companies to do what ever trade they want? As they did when US manufacturing left in the 80s...

[Kasierith]

That, the problem, there isn't a better candidate. Just a not as bad of candidate on some issue, Trump's own failure and inability to not say the silent parts out loud helped stop a lot of bad legislation Some Biden would have signed given his past votes in the senate as a moderate democrat.

We are in late April and Biden has been hiding as much as possible with no real solutions to our current problems. I hope Biden wins, but he needs to be more active and vocal. That however, is part of the problem. Anytime Biden tries to speak substantively and off prompter he starts to ramble and it's difficult to understand WTF he just said.

Why, exactly? Trump is basically hanging himself at this point. Giving him enough rope that he can suggest injecting cleaning solutions into yourself is exactly what the Democrats want. It doesn't mean that Trump is out of the race, but his position now relative to just a few weeks ago is much weaker. Republican voters don't really like being told that their deaths are acceptable losses for saving the economy.

[Felya]

Biden has made it very clear he does not support Universal Health Care, or proven that he is even capable to fight for any policy. Let alone on of Bernie's policies. If Biden was Obama's conservative VP then I have less faith in him doing anything, and Obama did a far amount of bad things I never approved off.

That’s all great... but... Biden is still the best chance to get Bernie policy of all possible permutations? Right?

[Felya]

Why, exactly? Trump is basically hanging himself at this point. Giving him enough rope that he can suggest injecting cleaning solutions into yourself is exactly what the Democrats want. It doesn't mean that Trump is out of the race, but his position now relative to just a few weeks ago is much weaker. Republican voters don't really like being told that their deaths are acceptable losses for saving the economy.

As well as the demographic that is hardest hit by this, is their largest voting block. It’s not that they might not like what Trump is saying, by November... there might be enough dead seniors, to cover Trump’s win in some states. This is killing off his voters... it’s fucked... it’s not even the people he claims to hate. If Democrats were ass holes, it is in their best interest to open the country, as it will kill off their opponents base... yet... it’s republicans doing it... It’s nuts...

[cubby]

That’s all great... but... Biden is still the best chance to get Bernie policy of all possible permutations? Right?

You're never going to get an honest answer from Lil Jetty on that issue - it's a completely valid point that he cannot acknowledge because it pokes a gaping hole in his hidden pro-Trump narrative.

Just the idea that Trump is a better choice than Biden, if you're a Sanders supporter, is beyond ludicrous. It's why they have to keep the ball bouncing all the time - if it lands, they are revealed.

[Blur4stuff]

many thousands of boomers were going to die before the election anyways, but yeah this is speeding that up a bit

i think 60-65%? of boomers vote republican

[Shadowferal]

You misunderstand, when I said there isn't a "Better Candidate", I am saying no candidate is good.

Are you saying that you're not voting at all?

[Felya]

You misunderstand, when I said there isn't a "Better Candidate", I am saying no candidate is good.

The two are not mutually exclusive... I know... I don’t like Biden either... You agreed with me in that statement, with this addition, not actually adding anything. My point was never that Biden is my choice, he is the best choice if I want my policy passed... just like Bernie and Lincoln Conservatives... Just like AOC and a lot of conservative news papers... They are not all endorsing Biden because they have the same policy... they do it because it’s the best chance for all of their policy... as unlikely as that may be...

What the difference it isn't the TPP. I never said it would be helpful, and we can craft Trade Deals that help American Workers, but since the 80s as you put it all of them have screwed the workers. We can't know the outcomes of TPP especially given the current economy. I imagine it will be equally destructive, but that wasn't what was asked. I was asked which terrible policy would Biden support that Trump didn't, and I named one.

It is worse without trade deals, because corporations can do what ever they want with impunity. That’s why you need to discuss why trade deals are bad, not why they are bad in general. Here is an example... TPP is bad, because Brunai is one of the nations in the deal, with rules specifically referring to working conditions of the lowest common denominator in the deal. Which would be the authoritarian papal experience of Brunai... you remove that... I’m on board... how about you?

[Machismo]

That’s all great... but... Biden is still the best chance to get Bernie policy of all possible permutations? Right?

I don't think you are going to get a straight answer as to who the better candidate is, in his opinion.

[Zaktar]

Why, exactly? Trump is basically hanging himself at this point. Giving him enough rope that he can suggest injecting cleaning solutions into yourself is exactly what the Democrats want. It doesn't mean that Trump is out of the race, but his position now relative to just a few weeks ago is much weaker. Republican voters don't really like being told that their deaths are acceptable losses for saving the economy.

More than that, it would be irresponsible of Biden to try to lead the country right now. A) He can't, he's just running for president, he isn't actually president B) As shit as Trump is, we need his attention on the crisis, distracting him by trying to grab the wheel would be a mistake for someone with the amount of persuasive power that Biden currently holds because C) He could do a lot of damage by further politicizing what is already a mess. Giving the Right more reasons to endanger lives to win an election by "appearing presidential" would be childishly awful, two words which describe our current leader very well.

It's not just politically smart, it's responsible, which is one of the most appealing features of Biden - he acts like a fucking adult.

[Lenonis]

Sanders appeal was in the General Electorate, so he won big with non-Democrats. But non-Democrats aren't fanatically invested in the Dem primary or even necessarily able to vote in it.

Guess Sanders shouldn't have hijacked the Democratic party label just to run for president then eh?

[Felya]

I don't think you are going to get a straight answer as to who the better candidate is, in his opinion.

I do have a meeting I need to prepare for by 2:30 pst... but, I feel like we are slowly making progress. I’ll try to be back, or go mute... lol

[Machismo]

What I guess is the mistaken thinking of the new reply guy, is that the Dem primary contains the entire electorate that isn't Republicans. For the most part the Dem primary is a narrow contest; dominated by party brand partisans, far more influenced by machine politics and patronage networks (See Jim Clyburn) and Sanders appeal was in the General Electorate, so he won big with non-Democrats. But non-Democrats aren't fanatically invested in the Dem primary or even necessarily able to vote in it.

So, are you saying he should have run as an independent or a Republican?

[Lenonis]

You misunderstand, when I said there isn't a "Better Candidate", I am saying no candidate is good.

The problem is you also seem to be saying the candidates are all equally bad. Which is obviously untrue regardless of your political affiliation.

[breadisfunny]

Guess Sanders shouldn't have hijacked the Democratic party label just to run for president then eh?

so now sanders isn't allowed to run for president?