Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[beanman12345]

I voted for bernie and all 8 of his delegates. I shit on idiots, idgaf if they are conservative, progressive or communist.

[Sunseeker]

Fucking... ‘you’d think Bernie was President’... it’s as if the entire point isn’t voting Biden to stop Trump... its as if pointing out that not voting Biden, helps Trump, ignores who the president actually is... wtf? Do they even listen?

No, I am crapping on people who look at President Trump, to think sitting it out or voting third party is a solution. The fact that these people act like Bernie supporters, isn’t my problem. Bernie already said he supports Biden... Bernie, isn’t the issue...

Certainly doesn't read that way.

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Couldn't this exact same criticism be applied to your initial post here?

That aside, frankly, progressives deserve the criticism. They lost, and if you can't sit down and objectively figure out why you're going to keep losing.

Ah yes, I forgot the age old Republican argument: you lost therefore you have no say in the process anymore!

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Fucking... ‘you’d think Bernie was President’... it’s as if the entire point isn’t voting Biden to stop Trump... its as if pointing out that not voting Biden, helps Trump, ignores who the president actually is... wtf? Do they even listen?

The not listening is the actual point. Hell, I'm a leftist that aligned with mainstream Democrats specifically because being an outsider is really, really bad for minority groups in this country. Better to mainstream initiatives instead of throw bombs.

[Felya]

Couldn't this exact same criticism be applied to your initial post here?

That aside, frankly, progressives deserve the criticism. They lost, and if you can't sit down and objectively figure out why you're going to keep losing.

If Biden even considering Bernie’s issues doesn’t mater, why should either parry appeal to progressives like that? If those who are flawed, will be ignored regardless of progressive issues. Their vote is fickle and would be better time spent focusing on elderly, who are a consistent vote and are switching to Biden. They are removing progressives from the electorate...

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Ah yes, I forgot the age old Republican argument: you lost therefore you have no say in the process anymore!

No, you have no say because you spent four years building an outside movement and attacking the party. No one said you're unwelcome. You all decided to create your own media and political ecosystem. You know damn well you could function as a wing of the Democratic Party, but you'd actually have to BE part of the party. We're not going to let you run the thing.

[Felya]

Certainly doesn't read that way.

Then I think the source of our issue is obvious...

[Sunseeker]

No, you have no say because you spent four years building an outside movement and attacking the party. No one said you're unwelcome. You all decided to create your own media and political ecosystem. You know damn well you could function as a wing of the Democratic Party, but you'd actually have to BE part of the party. We're not going to let you run the thing.

Yeah actually we know damn well that "being a part of the party" is exactly why we're not part of the party. Because ya know, we tend to get told to sit down and shut up and do what we're told when we're part of the party, and when we're not, we get told the same.

"Progressives" have taken a candidate who had somewhere in the realm of 1% support, to 10% back in 2016, to 30% this primary. A dramatic growth in support and popularity over a decade or so.

The alternative was...sitting around waiting for the DNC to deem our issues worthy of their concern.

[Elegiac]

No, you have no say because you spent four years building an outside movement and attacking the party. No one said you're unwelcome. You all decided to create your own media and political ecosystem. You know damn well you could function as a wing of the Democratic Party, but you'd actually have to BE part of the party. We're not going to let you run the thing.

Wait are you telling me that building a political campaign entirely out of internet ragemongers and spreading conspiracy theories or misinformation isn't a good way to build a broad based political coalition?

[Sunseeker]

Wait are you telling me that building a political campaign entirely out of internet ragemongers and spreading conspiracy theories or misinformation isn't a good way to build a broad based political coalition?

Jesus fucking christ, and you call Bernie Bros toxic.

I'll see ya'll in 2021, after I vote for Biden.

[Felya]

The not listening is the actual point. Hell, I'm a leftist that aligned with mainstream Democrats specifically because being an outsider is really, really bad for minority groups in this country. Better to mainstream initiatives instead of throw bombs.

I call my self a Goldwater conservative and I would vote Biden, AOC, Hillary or Bernie... I don’t give a shit... It’s better than Trump... QQ that Bernie supporters scared away moderates and southern voters. Not my problem, my position didn’t change. I’d vote Bernie if he won the primary... I... don’t... care...

Personally? I feel that I contributed to Trump winning, because I was too soft and too quick to agree with self proclaimed centrist. That I bowed down to popular opinion and didn’t defend Hillary more. It’s not happening again... Trump may win, but I’m not making the same mistake twice.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

The alternative was...sitting around waiting for the DNC to deem our issues worthy of their concern.

No, the alternative is to do what every other axis or interest in the party has done and build a network that is a necessary organ of the party to win elections. I'm most familiar with the LGBTQ movement, but do you think we sprang from nothing and suddenly the Democrats took note? Nope. We built a network of support and activism, and now we're writing entire planks in the party platform and support is damn near universal for our goals. In certain states we've even captured the moderate wing of the Republican Party.

You, you're still complaining about the "DNC." Stop complaining and do something besides try to rip down a party that benefits other people.

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I call my self a Goldwater conservative and I would vote Biden, AOC, Hillary or Bernie... I don’t give a shit... It’s better than Trump... QQ that Bernie supporters scared away moderates and southern voters. Not my problem, my position didn’t change. I’d vote Bernie if he won the primary... I... don’t... care...

Personally? I feel that I contributed to Trump winning, because I was too soft and too quick to agree with self proclaimed centrist. That I bowed down to popular opinion and didn’t defend Hillary more. It’s not happening again... Trump may win, but I’m not making the same mistake twice.

Anything is better than Trump. 100,000 dead. This is an unmitigated disaster, and a percentage of his followers are making it worse and worse.

[Sunseeker]

No, the alternative is to do what every other axis or interest in the party has done and build a network that is a necessary organ of the party to win elections. I'm most familiar with the LGBTQ movement, but do you think we sprang from nothing and suddenly the Democrats took note? Nope. We built a network of support and activism, and now we're writing entire planks in the party platform and support is damn near universal for our goals. In certain states we've even captured the moderate wing of the Republican Party.

You, you're still complaining about the "DNC." Stop complaining and do something besides try to rip down a party that benefits other people.

I'm not complaining about "the DNC". I'm complaining about you. About you in specific. About Felya and cubby and Elegaic. People who have discovered the magical Biden and suddenly everyone else is shit. And their approach to everyone else is to shit on them. And when people complain about being shit on, more shit.

If you don't think Bernie did exactly what you're saying he didn't, which ya know, is basically what you all have been saying, you're obviously not paying attention. There's no way Bernie could have achieved the success, even if he inevitably failed, that he did without doing so.

What he DIDNT do is build inroads to an organization that wasn't interested in him or his policies.

What you're asking for is the classic Democratic approach to Republican blocking: that they should attempt to build inroads and compromise with the people who clearly aren't interested in you or anything you have to say. Why bother?

[Felya]

Jesus fucking christ, and you call Bernie Bros toxic.

Their behavior, that he described has been blamed for Bernie failure. Even Bernie told them to simmer down, because they were getting out of hand. There is one calling people nazis on the previous page.

I'll see ya'll in 2021, after I vote for Biden.

Stay safe...

[Edge-]

Yeah actually we know damn well that "being a part of the party" is exactly why we're not part of the party.

Not at all. There was a conscious choice on the part of the current crop of progressives to distance themselves and form the Justice Democrats coalition. Thankfully for liberals and progressives it hasn't led to a Tea Party-esque fracturing of the party.

But following that choice, the Justice Democrats decided that they wanted to support far more progressive candidates, including primary challengers to established liberal/moderate Democrats.

That's totally fine, and their decision. The rub comes in that they've largely failed to get their candidates elected, which has left them with little actual political capital or power. That means that yes, when they fail to build a strong, broad coalition of people who get the fuck out and vote, that they'll have a smaller voice at the table.

"Progressives" have taken a candidate who had somewhere in the realm of 1% support, to 10% back in 2016, to 30% this primary. A dramatic growth in support and popularity over a decade or so.

They help blow up Bernie on the national scene in 2016, and were successful in pushing the DNC platform to the left, which is good and I supported a lot of those more progressive policies.

The problem though, is that stagnated. They failed to expand their coalition in the subsequent 4 years in a meaningful way and failed to mobilize enough of their voters, if there were enough to begin with.

So right now yeah, the Justice Democrats/progressives are a bit of a "one-election wonder", as the 2018 midterm Blue Wave was overwhelmingly the result of the DNC and "establishment" groups busting their ass to flip vulnerable districts by playing smart politics and nominating more centrist, but still liberal, Democrats to seats formerly held by Republicans. Meanwhile, the Justice Democrats failed to get candidates out of the primary and was pushing progressive candidates in areas that made no sense, and they lost.

The alternative was...sitting around waiting for the DNC to deem our issues worthy of their concern.

The alternative for the progressive movement was to spend the last four years, especially the last year and a half after their drumming in 2018, figuring out why they were failing to see more success and make inroads. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have happened for whatever reason, so their efforts to carry a progressive candidate to victory in the primaries failed. So the unfortunately reality is that idealism must become practicality in the short term, and I hope to hell they're working on ways to meaningfully grow the progressive base in the US to make their movement more politically viable nationally.

[Felya]

People who have discovered the magical Biden and suddenly everyone else is shit.

Uhm... we went over this... the only everyone else that maters, is Trump. Bernie supporters are getting shit for not voting or voting third party, because the the only everyone else that maters, is Trump. It’s binary... thinking it’s not, is a figment of your imagination.

[Sunseeker]

Uhm... we went over this... the only everyone else that maters, is Trump. Bernie supporters are getting shit for not voting or voting third party, because the the only everyone else that maters, is Trump. It’s binary... thinking it’s not, is a figment of your imagination.

Bernie supporters are getting shit on this thread for being Bernie supporters, even when they express that they're voting for Biden.

Seriously, get out of your headspace for 10 seconds, pretend you're a Bernie supporter, a reasonable, rational one, and reread this thread.

[Milchshake]

You may think it's ridiculous and wrong for Rose Twitter to try to co-opt a black-led anti-police-violence protest.
But they tried to co-opt the Democratic Party, stealing the hard work of black people is their signature move.

Really sums up why they failed.

[beanman12345]

Bernie supporters are getting shit on this thread for being Bernie supporters, even when they express that they're voting for Biden.

Seriously, get out of your headspace for 10 seconds, pretend you're a Bernie supporter, a reasonable, rational one, and reread this thread.

I'm not getting shit on in this thread, except by some theo simp ban evader.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I'm not complaining about "the DNC".

You literaly said: "The alternative was...sitting around waiting for the DNC to deem our issues worthy of their concern."

I'm complaining about you. About you in specific. About Felya and cubby and Elegaic. People who have discovered the magical Biden and suddenly everyone else is shit. And their approach to everyone else is to shit on them. And when people complain about being shit on, more shit.

The entire problem here is that you're taking actual criticism about the political failures of running an outside campaign and thinking that is shitting on anyone. All I've done is tell you why that didn't work and then explain why I'll have nothing to do with an outsider campaign.

As for Biden, I don't make politicians my heroes. He happens to align with what I want. It's a political calculation.

If you don't think Bernie did exactly what you're saying he didn't, which ya know, is basically what you all have been saying, you're obviously not paying attention. There's no way Bernie could have achieved the success, even if he inevitably failed, that he did without doing so.

No, he didn't. If he did there wouldn't have been complaints about the lack of engagement with various other interests in the party. Chase Strangio with the ACLU is a good example. He was leading the orgs fight against all the anti-trans bills this year. He actively complained about the lack of Sanders campaign engagement. That's bad. It turned off a lot of us who trust Chase.

What you're asking for is the classic Democratic approach to Republican blocking: that they should attempt to build inroads and compromise with the people who clearly aren't interested in you or anything you have to say. Why bother?

What you're essentially saying here is that we're your enemy, it seems. So, why should we help you when you think we're the goddamn devil?

[Felya]

Bernie supporters are getting shit on this thread for being Bernie supporters, even when they express that they're voting for Biden.

Bullshit... you are ignoring the context.

Seriously, get out of your headspace for 10 seconds, pretend you're a Bernie supporter, a reasonable, rational one, and reread this thread.

A rational Bernie supporter would not only read what I’m posting... constantly... appropriately, but they would also be voting Biden.