Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Jastall]

Canada and the US pushed for universal system around the same time. Yet here we are. Clearly a system willing to lose their doctors was the better approach.

Yeah, we're better at reform than you guys. Yay us I suppose.

The question is, where do you fine folks go from there? Throw your hands up, lament the lack of an impossibly perfect solution, and allow 4 more years of gerrymandering and Supreme Court stacking that will make reforms even harder for literal decades to come? I don't think that's the big brain plan you seem to believe it is, not even close to it.

[Zan15]

How many milions won't be covered? How many Medical Bankruptcies will still happen? Most importantly how many will still die due to lack of coverage in a system tied to employment during the next economic down turn? Terrible is terrible and a wall of text doesn't change any of the short coming in Biden's plan.
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so the choice is help everyone and fix everything vs helping 10-15-20 million from losing what they have and adding tens of millions more to the covered bucket.


hmmm, what an argument. God i have to totally vote for fucking over 20+ million people because you can't help the other 50-60 million.


guess MAGA it is /s

[beanman12345]

Why someone who claims they want M4A is advocating so hard for 20+ million to lose healthcare so fervently. Oh cause they don't actually give a fuck about it.

[Daelak]

keep doing the same shit that lead to Trump. Good plan.

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You could vote for Biden and still call his plan shit.

The "shit" that led to Trump has nothing to do with the democratic party and everything to do with the ingrained bias the formation of our federal government has towards conservatism. You amend that, all other items will fall into line. Conservatives wouldn't ratify the constitution of the US unless it had the electoral college, a bicameral legislature and indirect voting for senators. They never wanted full voting enfranchisement. The entire process of the passage to statehood has been a bulwark to meaningful reform due to conservatives using it as a means to magnify their representation. Same with the almost 100 year effort of the denial of re-apportionment/allotment of additional HoR districts that usually increased after the census, which hasn't been changed since 1929. This is all conservative strategies to deny reform.

[Zan15]

You could vote for Biden and still call his plan shit.

but you're not. you are also not supporting him.

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Why someone says they give a fuck about 20 million Americans but could give a shit less about 10 million Americans. Oh cause they don't actually give a fuck and view politics like a sporting event.

That is what you got out of that statement? Really?

Help the 20 million you can help while fighting as hard as you can to keep helping and getting help for 1-10-10 million more as soon as possible.

[beanman12345]

Why someone says they give a fuck about 20 million Americans but could give a shit less about 10 million Americans. Oh cause they don't actually give a fuck and view politics like a sporting event.

If i had my druthers, it'd be 0. But it's not gonna be 0. You are advocating we should increase that 10 million to 30 million. That's the difference between you and me, I actually care about other people.

[Benggaul]

"It's okay if more people will die under Trump because THAT'LL teach them a lesson!" said a person privileged enough not to really have to care about other people.

I used to worry about people piling on this dude but he's proven himself enough of an irrational butthurt Bernie supporter I just can't even be bothered to translate their jumbled mess of word salad anymore. Have fun with it folks.

[Jastall]

keep doing the same shit that lead to Trump. Good plan.

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You could vote for Biden and still call his plan shit.

As opposed to actually letting Trump stay in power? The threat of putting someone like Trump in power somewhere down the line (maybe) is worse than actually allowing the man himself a second term to piss all over everything you want accomplished? That doesn't seem like a foolproof solution to me. And that's without me even contesting that it's the Democrats that spawned Trump which is a gross oversimplification.

I mean, things won't change for me. I'll keep sipping my maple syrup flavored whiskey and sleeping soundly knowing that if anything happens to me and/or my loved ones there's a comprehensive, even if not perfect by a long shot, single payer system that will aid us to the best of its abilities. But you seem very keen on cutting your nose to spite your face, and that attitude I will never understand, it's not like our system became what it is in a day either. It was first implemented in a single province in 1947 and didn't become widespread to all provinces until the early 60's if memory serves, culminating in the modern Canada Health Act in 1984. We didn't just get it to drop in our laps after wishing for it really hard.

[beanman12345]

Clearly you don't or you'd support a universal system that covers all of them. You are just advocating on the behest of corporations perhaps that is who care about?

I do support universal system. I'm just not gonna get it, you are not gonna get it, and in the meantime i don't want 20 million to lose their healthcare, while you do.

[Daelak]

It has 100% to do with both political parties. Trying to pawn off Trump on the founding of our nation is laughable. Trump is a direct result of Reaganism meeting Clintonism. Which has dictated US policy for the past 40 years.

Your opinion is in direct contradiction to US history. You are blaming it on forces that have been built into the system since the beginning to stymie your exact desire for progress. Conservatism is the barrier, the senate is the barrier, the denial of statehood is the barrier, the dearth of additional HoR seats since 1929 is the barrier, all employed by conservatives.

[beanman12345]

No one will ever get it with that mindset. Just like Civil Rights movement would have never happened without people taking to the streets. You don't support it, because you clearly didn't support the candidate whose policy was his #1 concern. So you can pretend to care about people, but you only really care about team blue winning over team red. Well congratulations I believe you'll get your token victory.

I voted for Bernie sanders. I've never hid my support for Bernie. But like Bernie, I'm voting for Biden, while you crusade to nobody who agree's with anything you ever say for 20 million people to lose healthcare.

[Jastall]

You certainly didn't get it by keeping the old system in place. Perhaps stop sipping your disgusting whiskey for a second and do something about all those tar sand pipelines that keep getting green light. Or pushing so your system includes both dental and vision in every providence. Just an idea.

I'm actually voting for the party that wishes to expand the system to dental at the provincial level (Québec Solidaire in case you ask), so way ahead of you there. And the tar sand pipelines are part of why I didn't vote for Trudeau the last time around on the federal level (alongside his broken promise of electoral reform), albeit I wasn't anywhere near stupid enough to not vote or vote for Scheer instead, who wanted to expand said pipelines far, far more to pander to his base in Alberta.

Perhaps at some point you'll address my actual arguments rather than try and attack me personally, and with false assumptions on top of that. And perhaps you'll at some point get what you wish, I hope you do in fact. But I don't believe in empty moral superiority over implementation of actual policy helping actual people, so I'll not pretend the solution of sitting on the sidelines and sneering at people because they don't work to implement your own dreams is close to a winning formula.

[Zan15]

How soon? 10 years? 20 years? another 80 years? How many times we going to be right back in this position when the next GOP takes charge?

Its not a good policy I don't care who proposed it. If you believe its a negotiation why would you start out in the middle?

Why would you start a race at the finish line?

Medicare proved you could start with the most vulnerable.
Medicaid proved you could then move on to the poorest.
CHIP proved you could progress to needy children.
ACA proved you could move on to the next tier of poor-lower middle class, people whom insurance companies refused to insure, people whom lost their jobs, etc.
ACA regulations on private insurance companies proved you could regulate and save millions, starting first with pre-existing and limitations on benefits.
ACA proved you could extend coverage to people under their parents policies.


Slow and steady progress is better than reverse progress.
Trump is for reverse progress.
His party wants to get rid of everything above.

Everyone wants instant progress on everything but that is not reality.

Welcome to murica

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No one will ever get it with that mindset. Just like Civil Rights movement would have never happened without people taking to the streets. You don't support it, because you clearly didn't support the candidate whose policy was his #1 concern. So you can pretend to care about people, but you only really care about team blue winning over team red. Well congratulations I believe you'll get your token victory.

lol it only took how long? to quote you "10 years? 20 years? 80 years?"

If we followed your lead the slaves would have never been freed since hell you did not free them, give them land rights, give them the right to vote, equal rights, etc ALL AT ONCE!!

we are still not even fully through the Civil Rights movement as there is still work to do. Funny how you are claiming victory while people do not still have full fundamental rights in this country.

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You all are defending Biden's policy like sycophants. As said it should be perfectly possible to vote for Biden and also say his plan is a bad plan. My god the next 4 years is going to the polar opposite with people screaming about Trump anytime anyone is critical of Biden. How exhausting.

No one is.

Almost everyone has made it clear that he is not the best pick or has the greatest policies or chances at enacting great policies but they accept him as a current solution that is acceptable over another 4 years of Trump.


Trust me if trump loses most people are going to do their best to forget all about him and move on.

[PACOX]

People really don't like the idea that you can call Biden out on his bullshit while voting for him.

Biden helped create the political environment where a Trump could be possible, and now time to see if Biden has changed as much as he claims he has.

[Underverse]

People really don't like the idea that you can call Biden out on his bullshit while voting for him.

Biden helped create the political environment where a Trump could be possible, and now time to see if Biden has changed as much as he claims he has.

How exactly did he do that? I'm genuinely curious. I've seen Trump say this a couple of times without any sort of argument or evidence.

[JohnBrown1917]

People really don't like the idea that you can call Biden out on his bullshit while voting for him.
s.

Only 2 more months untill that shitty excuse stops being useable.

[Daelak]

People really don't like the idea that you can call Biden out on his bullshit while voting for him.

Biden helped create the political environment where a Trump could be possible, and now time to see if Biden has changed as much as he claims he has.

I dont understand this line of reasoning. The constitution itself and conservatism created a Trump. Its over representation of conservatism through the federal government and the local policies that inhibit full voter enfranchisement.

[JohnBrown1917]

How exactly did he do that? I'm genuinely curious. I've seen Trump say this a couple of times without any sort of argument or evidence.

Neoliberlism leads to lots of anger within the lower classes who keep getting fucked by the problems that (neo-)liberals cause, which leads to the GoP abusing that anger to manipulate them into voting for them. The ol' blame it on the gays/immigrants/"SJWS"/minorities stick, while also ignoring what is really causing the problem, but its just about using the anger they hold.

Or that is the short version of it.

[beanman12345]

People really don't like the idea that you can call Biden out on his bullshit while voting for him.

Biden helped create the political environment where a Trump could be possible, and now time to see if Biden has changed as much as he claims he has.

Um, Jettisawn ain't voting. He literally just comes in here and shits on Biden, while occasionally defending Trump. You agreed with Ghostpanther yesterday, now your siding with this guy, should do a quick check on yourself man.

[beanman12345]

The constitution nor conservationism created Trump. 100 million people don't vote because of Conservatism. They don't vote because they don't see the Democrats or Republicans doing anything to improve their lives and are overly concerned with their donors over their voters.

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I said I was voting, Never said I wasn't. I really wish you'd stop lying about me. It shows you are incapable of having a rational discussion. There is more on the ballot then the Presidential General Election.

You've said numerous times you are not voting for the president. Like do you want me to literally quote you?