1. #13601
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points.
    Says whom?


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  2. #13602
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I linked you his 2020 healthcare plan, which uses taxes from capital gains and rolls back Bush and Trump tax cuts for it. You don’t need to mock me, for using the latest information. You don’t need to mock me, for Biden doing exactly what you asked.
    Too busy protesting to educate themselves on what they are protesting I guess.

  3. #13603
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Biden/Democrats already said they're not rolling back the Trump tax cuts so that's out of date.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...trump-tax-cuts
    That’s great, Biden didn’t:

    https://joebiden.com/healthcare/#

    As President, Biden will roll back the Trump rate cut for the very wealthy and restore the 39.6% top rate he helped restore when he negotiated an end to the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in 2012.
    Is it still on Biden’s site? Thought so... but, yeah... keep attacking Biden for doing the things you ask... very on brand.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  4. #13604
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Says whom?
    Lots of people. Everyone is saying that. The other day this big guy came up to me, very tough guy, and he was crying, and he said "Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points"

    /s

  5. #13605
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    They are against Trump but they also want things like M4A, the Green New Deal, etc and when they've lost their jobs and are getting evicted en masse, they have nothing left, and threatening them with "but if Trump wins democracy will die and you guys will lose everything" doesn't matter when they've already lost everything. You have to give them something to vote for, like Republicans do for their voters. It might be racist bullshit and fear mongering, but they're still giving them something to vote for besides "we're not the other guy".
    Okay, so they can vote for Biden under whom things at minimum won't get worse (and really, will get better) or they can vote for Trump (or not vote, same difference) and let things get even worse.

    You won't get M4A or GND by sitting out or voting for Trump. Under Biden, at least we'll take some steps in that direction.
    Putin khuliyo

  6. #13606
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    That study is about the midterms, which is a completely different kind of election than the general election for the president.
    Do you believe that Trump supporters, including the independent ones, believe that Trump is lying, when he claims Biden will bring the socialist take over that is M4A? You think it’s a better tact to attack Trump and his supporters who claim it’s a communist take over, instead of people who don’t think it can pass GOP Congress?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  7. #13607
    https://www.townofpeterborough.com/v...d-dcc2ef606fe4

    First link in the article, look at the wording on the resolution.

    WOW, EVERYONE WILL GET EVERYTHING COVERED AND IT WON'T COST US MORE AT THE DOCTOR, GREAT!
    WOW, WE'LL GET ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE EVERYWHERE, GREAT!
    WOW, WE'LL SAVE NEARLY $1M LOCALLY SINCE THE FEDS ARE PAYING FOR CITY HEALTH INSURANCE NOW, GREAT!
    WOW, IT HAS PUBLIC SUPPORT!
    WOW, THIS RESOLUTION DOESN'T MATTER!

    Again, this is what I'm talking about: There's broad support for the idea. But start throwing price tags on there, start reminding people that they'll lose their current plans, and get into details and people start getting cold feet.

  8. #13608
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Lots of people. Everyone is saying that. The other day this big guy came up to me, very tough guy, and he was crying, and he said "Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points"

    /s
    You forgot the ‘sir’.

  9. #13609
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Okay, so they can vote for Biden under whom things at minimum won't get worse (and really, will get better) or they can vote for Trump (or not vote, same difference) and let things get even worse.

    You won't get M4A or GND by sitting out or voting for Trump. Under Biden, at least we'll take some steps in that direction.
    Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".

  10. #13610
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Says whom?
    Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!

    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-22 at 08:55 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #13611
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".
    This is literally the Trump platform, and has been a big part of the Republican platform for decades...are you arguing that fear doesn't work as a motivating factor?

  12. #13612
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".
    Nah Biden shouldn't appeal to anyone who's too ignorant that they willingly chooses not to vote. If that costs him, he wasn't gonna win anyways.

  13. #13613
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This is literally the Trump platform, and has been a big part of the Republican platform for decades...are you arguing that fear doesn't work as a motivating factor?
    It actually isn't. The things he gave people to vote for were awful, stupid, and racist as fuck, but "building the wall" is a tangible goal to vote for. "I'm not that other guy" or "things will get worse" isn't. Also if you remember, Trump also ran on repealing NAFTA, even though he replaced it with the exact same thing again lol, but he ran on doing that. If you've been paying attention to his rallies lately, he is doing the same thing again.

    I'm sorry but I when watch Joe Biden the majority of what I get from what he says is "my son died" and "we're gonna restore the soul of America". He repeats those 2 things a lot and those are what I remember from his speeches the most because of it, even though I know what his actual policies are and have known since the primaries. He needs to be hammering home his policies over and over again or people won't have any idea what they're voting *for* when they're choosing whether to vote for Biden, most people don't pay as much as attention to politics as you or I do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!
    I think you forgot about the electoral college my dude. He needs to be leading by way more than 2 percentage points.

  14. #13614
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Nah Biden shouldn't appeal to anyone who's too ignorant that they willingly chooses not to vote. If that costs him, he wasn't gonna win anyways.
    Didnt you get the memo? Street fightin' Antifa is 10% of the independent vote! Why wont Dems appeal to themmmmm.
    /s
    Government Affiliated Snark

  15. #13615
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I think you forgot about the electoral college my dude. He needs to be leading by way more than 2 percentage points.
    Did you forget them when saying 10% of independents will vote Trump? Oops?

    Edit: oh and the amount he needs to lead in popular to win the electoral, cannot be defined...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #13616
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I'm sorry but I when watch Joe Biden the majority of what I get from what he says is "my son died" and "we're gonna restore the soul of America".
    You must not see much then. I mean, I don't watch that many of his events but I did catch part of his drive-in town hall and he sure talked about a whole lot that wasn't his son, and while the "restore the soul of America" is a part of it, that's a part of his core campaign messaging. It's about as meaningful as "BUILD THE WALL" is as a slogan.

    And I mean...what do you think "THE WALL" was for? To celebrate Trump? No, it was another fear tactic because those Mexicans with thighs the size of cantaloupes are lugging 50 pounds of weed on their back across the border! The rapists and murderers are coming across the border and you need to be terrified! Only I can save you from this horrific terror that shall lurk on your doorsteps in rural Montana and South Dakota!

  17. #13617
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Did you forget them when saying 10% of independents will vote Trump? Oops?

    Edit: oh and the amount he needs to lead in popular to win the electoral, cannot be defined...
    I said Trump is leading Independents by 10 points compared to Biden, not that 10% of Independents will vote for Trump.

    Biden needs to be polling over at least 5 percentage points over Trump to win the electoral college, and even that is pretty dicey. 10+ percentage points is probably more of a safe area if I had to guess.

    Also I honestly have no idea why Democrats don't run on getting rid of the electoral college, either.

  18. #13618
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Results for Independent voters in recent polls:



    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  19. #13619
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Results for Independent voters in recent polls:

    I admittedly haven't been keeping track of the more recent ones but this was the last one I saw where I got my numbers from:

    https://twitter.com/WorkingClassLI/s...21998193999875

    CBS News/ YouGov poll - post DNC
    Among Independents
    Trump 47% (+10)
    Biden 37%

  20. #13620
    The Undying
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    Mississippi's Senate race is tightening. What-the-holy-fuck?

    538 showing it a 1 point race.

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