1. #15301
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    This attitude is growing throughout the world. Basically, the US does not do nation building at a time when many nations need building.

    The US is also throwing around way too many hard power demands. This gives us a few high profile victories, which are more than outweighed by lots and lots of low profile losses, combined with other countries negotiating much tougher with us on every little detail.

    Then you get last night's debate, and your statement almost seems natural and obvious. for me, just reality for you, for China.
    Could you imagine 4 years ago americas biggest allies in Europe condemning America for an action against an Iranian general?

    Because that happend this year.

    I think Americans forget a bit that....trump does actually represent you as a nation on the world stage, you are a democracy as such as much as you hate him you are also held partly accountable for his actions as your leader.

    American news might read "trump assassinated Iranian general on neutral Iraq soil"

    But world new does not pay heed to the internal fractures of america, it reads "america assassinated Iranian general on neutral Iraq soil"

    Thats why you need to be careful who you put in charge.

  2. #15302
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    I saw that. I know that Chile's future lies with China, and the US, even with Biden being president, is not worth the hassle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I may not agree with China on a, hrm, "few" things, but they seem genuinely interested in working with other countries. The US has proven under Trump it is not.
    Genuinely interested in profiting from other countries.

    This is a bit of a digression, But I don’t for a second believe that China has anything but its own financial and geopolitical interests in mind when it “helps” other countries.

    Moreover, those things you “disagree” with China about... the more influence China gains in the world, the more normalized those things become.

    you can call trump a far orange slob of a man that’s unfit to be called an orangutan because that’d be an insult to orangutans. And you’d be right. But you can say that.

    Can you say that about China’s governance in China without repercussion? No. And how long will someone that lives in a country that finds itself more and more closely allied and dependent on China Be able to voice their opinions on the matter? How long until their news and information is filtered and they’re not hearing about the concentration camps in their own country because some minority proved too troublesome?

    At least there are people in the United States trying to fight trump’s shitshow of a presidency, from politicians to everyday people. And by all metrics it is indeed the majority doing so. Meanwhile I hear and see nothing but complacency about China’s actions you find “disagreeable” from China proper. Zero efforts to end the concentration camps, zero efforts to end the censorship, zero efforts to roll back the information control.

    I’m far more concerned with those things (things trump himself has pursued or condoned in some form or another, for what it’s worth) taking hold and spreading than some terse words in a debate or some orange clod temporarily infesting the White House.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2020-09-30 at 03:59 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #15303
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    I’m speaking for my self but my sense of purpose is to do something productive and beneficial to the survival of our species. Also the the success and happiness of my family and loved ones.

    Imo some peoples instinct for humanities survival isn’t as strong as others. That in itself my bring the crisis of what’s my purpose in life.
    Some people are good at finding purpose, others really really aren't, and its those people who extremists groups prey on for recruits because the offer reason and meaning and purpose, even if its false and evil.

  4. #15304
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yet more fact checking.

    West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin (D) said Wednesday that President Trump’s claim on the debate stage the night before that his state experiences widespread voter fraud connected to mail-in ballots is “just plain wrong.”



    Earlier, I suggested that I wasn't going to list all the true statements Trump said, because I wasn't going to give him the credit of being honest for saying the sky is blue. I'm starting to doubt that would come up. Trump lies about everything. Last night was not an exception.
    Well Trump's entire argument hinges on massive amounts of voter fraud that isn't caught. Which isn't really falsifiable. All the evidence suggests that any attempt at voter fraud is usually caught and promptly prosecuted, but that isn't what Trump is dealing with. He is claiming that there is a vast amount of voter fraud that isn't caught, and is actually calculated into the election results.

    The staggering scale of this voter fraud defies any sort of reason, he has repeatedly claimed he actually won the popular vote in 2016 (Which would require approximately 3 million fraudulent votes, at minimum). Like most conspiracies, this falls flat if you think about it for even a second. In this scenario, the Democrats somehow cheated their way to 3 million extra votes, and still lost. Why they didn't cheat for an extra 1% of that number and win in Michigan and Pennsylvania, both of which Trump claims are hotbeds of fraudulent voting, is beyond mortal comprehension.

  5. #15305
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    He is claiming that there is a vast amount of voter fraud that isn't caught, and is actually calculated into the election results.
    Hey Thekri, do you think Trump should put together a commission to investigate voter fraud?

    And also, how do you feel about leading questions?

  6. #15306
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Genuinely interested in profiting from other countries.

    This is a bit of a digression, But I don’t for a second believe that China has anything but its own financial and geopolitical interests in mind when it “helps” other countries.

    Moreover, those things you “disagree” with China about... the more influence China gains in the world, the more normalized those things become.

    you can call trump a far orange slob of a man that’s unfit to be called an orangutan because that’d be an insult to orangutans. And you’d be right. But you can say that.

    Can you say that about China’s governance in China without repercussion? No. And how long will someone that lives in a country that finds itself more and more closely allied and dependent on China Be able to voice their opinions on the matter? How long until their news and information is filtered and they’re not hearing about the concentration camps in their own country because some minority proved too troublesome?

    At least there are people in the United States trying to fight trump’s shitshow of a presidency, from politicians to everyday people. And by all metrics it is indeed the majority doing so. Meanwhile I hear and see nothing but complacency about China’s actions you find “disagreeable” from China proper.
    Thing is no one helps any one for free,

    China wants global supremacy, yes you are right.

    But there is profit to make in riding the coat tails,

    Chile isn't gonna be the #1 world super power

    But they can be alot richer and better off if they buddy up to China for investment, and in exchange China knows that Chile will have to have there back in the UN.

    Not a great thing just Chile alone, but China is at this point can call upon large chunks of Africa and South America as friends in the UN. And by China lifting these nations up they make markets to sell Chinese goods to instead of america.

    This is chinas belt and road strategy.

  7. #15307
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Hey Thekri, do you think Trump should put together a commission to investigate voter fraud?

    And also, how do you feel about leading questions?
    Well what Trump learned from that is that conspiracy theories work better if you don't actually investigate them. It is exactly why there have been 0 investigations in "Spygate", or anything to do with Hillary Clinton. Vast amounts of undefined voter fraud really only works if you don't look at voting hard enough to notice that it isn't there.

    If I tell you there is a monster under your bed, it doesn't behoove me encourage you to look under your bed.

  8. #15308
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Thing is no one helps any one for free,

    China wants global supremacy, yes you are right.

    But there is profit to make in riding the coat tails,

    Chile isn't gonna be the #1 world super power

    But they can be alot richer and better off if they buddy up to China for investment, and in exchange China knows that Chile will have to have there back in the UN.

    Not a great thing just Chile alone, but China is at this point can call upon large chunks of Africa and South America as friends in the UN. And by China lifting these nations up they make markets to sell Chinese goods to instead of america.

    This is chinas belt and road strategy.
    I'd love to have chinese R&D on green energy and nuclear energy here. And to have all of the BYD electric buses and taxis they can give to us.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  9. #15309
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    Most Presidential debates in my lifetime have been disgraces. This one just didn't go the way one side planned.
    As a brit I found the language and the tactics used in this debate of an exceptional level of crass even by American debate standards, this was above and beyond.

    I say as a brit because I might be more sensitive, but the level of personal attack was just disgusting, I would not have for a moment blamed Biden if he had struck trump on that stage.
    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2020-09-30 at 04:14 PM.

  10. #15310
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Genuinely interested in profiting from other countries.

    This is a bit of a digression, But I don’t for a second believe that China has anything but its own financial and geopolitical interests in mind when it “helps” other countries..
    Off-topic but...is China an oligarchy?
    ----

    In other news; another relif bill getting voted on
    Before last night I would have said it's doa. But I'm seeing signs of life, as in "anything to distract..."

  11. #15311
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Just wait until the inevitable What He Meant Was. I suspect the WH PR team is working on the way to suggest Trump meant "stand down" while also saying Antifa eats babies.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Will Pence's wife be there? It could be one-sided.
    Mother only needs to be present if Father is alone with a single woman. Kamala is luckily married, so her harlot ways will be tempered by her husband, who is head of her household.

  12. #15312
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    As a brit I found the language and the tactics used in this debate of an exceptional level of crass even by American debate standards, this was above and beyond.
    As an American I had the same feeling. The display last night isn't a cultural thing, it is just the ramblings of an unhinged man. It isn't like Americans converse like this at our work places, this is just a result of a severe dysfunction. You normally only see conversations of this timber in domestic abuse cases, or shouted at each other in parking lots at 3 am.

  13. #15313
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    I'd love to have chinese R&D on green energy and nuclear energy here. And to have all of the BYD electric buses and taxis they can give to us.
    We had that but China pulled out because we put our foot down over hong Kong and opened up a citizenship pass for several million Hong Kong citizens.

  14. #15314
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Mother only needs to be present if Father is alone with a single woman. Kamala is luckily married, so her harlot ways will be tempered by her husband, who is head of her household.
    According to certain conservative Reddit's, Kamala hasn't been very tempered. Pence needs to be careful not to get seduced on live TV!

    Side note, apparently we are getting a new Borat movie. Title is apparently "Borat: Gift of Pornographic Monkey to Vice Premiere Mikhael Pence to Make Benefit Recently Diminished Nation of Kazakhstan". Unfortunately, this being 2020, it is unclear if this is a parody or an documentary. Sacha Baron Cohen does both, so we will have to wait and see which one this is, because the title is entirely plausible in this timeline.

  15. #15315
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    As an American I had the same feeling. The display last night isn't a cultural thing, it is just the ramblings of an unhinged man. It isn't like Americans converse like this at our work places, this is just a result of a severe dysfunction. You normally only see conversations of this timber in domestic abuse cases, or shouted at each other in parking lots at 3 am.
    It wasn't a debate at all, it was something I'd usually see in pub when a drunk man is trying to pick a physical fight.

    Its basic honour, you don't drag family into things and trump went there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Off-topic but...is China an oligarchy?
    ----

    In other news; another relif bill getting voted on
    Before last night I would have said it's doa. But I'm seeing signs of life, as in "anything to distract..."
    There is a fair argument to say it is, on some level any way, the super rich user class of China are also high up party men so in a round about way it is an oligarchy or very much like one.
    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2020-09-30 at 04:23 PM.

  16. #15316


    This is savage.



    Lincoln Project are going to milk every debate at this juncture.



    The last one is rather funny.

  17. #15317
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    According to certain conservative Reddit's, Kamala hasn't been very tempered. Pence needs to be careful not to get seduced on live TV!

    Side note, apparently we are getting a new Borat movie. Title is apparently "Borat: Gift of Pornographic Monkey to Vice Premiere Mikhael Pence to Make Benefit Recently Diminished Nation of Kazakhstan". Unfortunately, this being 2020, it is unclear if this is a parody or an documentary. Sacha Baron Cohen does both, so we will have to wait and see which one this is, because the title is entirely plausible in this timeline.
    You know there's a high chance that he got Mike Pence on the phone or even interviewed him in disguise or heck even Trump the way he seem to want to talk to anyone on the phone.

  18. #15318
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Could you imagine 4 years ago americas biggest allies in Europe condemning America for an action against an Iranian general?

    Because that happend this year.

    I think Americans forget a bit that....trump does actually represent you as a nation on the world stage, you are a democracy as such as much as you hate him you are also held partly accountable for his actions as your leader.

    American news might read "trump assassinated Iranian general on neutral Iraq soil"

    But world new does not pay heed to the internal fractures of america, it reads "america assassinated Iranian general on neutral Iraq soil"

    Thats why you need to be careful who you put in charge.
    And the US chose NOT to impeach him earlier. And we are a little more than a month away from the election and he has a decent shot winning reelection.

    So yeah, I can see how the rest of the world would view it exactly that way.

  19. #15319
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    If trump does lose election and flees to Russia. I have a feeling he will “accidentally fall” out of a window or abruptly get “ill” and die.

  20. #15320
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Should it be though? Why is it the only two choices? Media portrayal? Education? Or just down to simple policies? Amount of money each party has?
    It shouldn't be, it not what your founding farthers intended, its not how a democracy should be at all, and its because of money and building political monopoly on power and on media representation.

    But thats hownit is and It won't change between now and November.

    this is how a democracy should look



    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2020-09-30 at 04:34 PM.

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