Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Fugus]

The impeachment, COVID-19, Charlottesville, Do you want a list? there were also countless ads talking about other things so you are contradicting yourself. The only way that would make sense is if they were in a coma for 4 years and this is the first ad they saw.

How many of them do you think watched the impeachment? How many of them do you think paid attention to that? How much did that impact them directly enough to care in their day to day lives?

COVID, that did impact them, that did impact their voting behavior against him and actually cost him the election.

Charlottesville, how recent was that? How many actively remembered that? How many even paid attention to that when it happened?

And when have I contradicted myself at all on this? The average voter isn't us, the average voter doesn't remember 99% of the scandals because it didn't directly impact THEM. That's what you have to got to understand.

You want to know the 2 major things that cost Trump? COVID and Social Security coming out right before the election saying his plan would bankrupt them by mid 2023 THOSE cost him votes, the rest, not so much because it didn't directly impact them so largely was either never noticed or noticed by quickly forgotten in the mound of other scandals and lies.

[Draco-Onis]

2020 has been a long year, I know, but when when activists started to say 'Defund the police' it was immediately backed up policy and examples. Immediately. Spokespeople were sure to explain what 'defund the police' means, damn near ad nauseum.

Democrats chose the the lazy route where they chose to appease Republicans instead of work with the cause...and it cost the party seats.

While I disagree with you on the slogan being good or not you make a good point reminds me of the ACA democrats ran away from it and republicans weaponized it against them.

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How many of them do you think watched the impeachment? How many of them do you think paid attention to that? How much did that impact them directly enough to care in their day to day lives?

COVID, that did impact them, that did impact their voting behavior against him and actually cost him the election.

Charlottesville, how recent was that? How many actively remembered that? How many even paid attention to that when it happened?

And when have I contradicted myself at all on this? The average voter isn't us, the average voter doesn't remember 99% of the scandals because it didn't directly impact THEM. That's what you have to got to understand.

You want to know the 2 major things that cost Trump? COVID and Social Security coming out right before the election saying his plan would bankrupt them by mid 2023 THOSE cost him votes, the rest, not so much because it didn't directly impact them so largely was either never noticed or noticed by quickly forgotten in the mound of other scandals and lies.

but you said a few ads on Hulu did it for them? do you see the inconsistency here? those were people who weren't going to pull the trigger on Biden. That's like your wife cheating on you because you didn't hang the towel the right way in the bathroom it's a flimsy excuse. There were countless ads in 2018 you know the last election cycle and they ignored those not to mention competing ads in 2020. I am asking you to consider the obvious they lied to you.

[Antiganon]

But it wasn't Biden slogan Biden had no slogan no message, the notion that defund the police is what did it seems rather silly when they are bigger more obvious problems. I think you are buying into the republican argument " if only democrats were more right wing they would do better". That mentality is the reason democrats don't win as big as they should they depress the heck of their voters every time they go right wing. Hillary Clin...I mean Joe Biden as a character depressed the vote not because of defund the police but because he represents the status quo you know the thing people voted against twice (Obama, Trump).

Biden's slogan is/was "Build Back Better", which is an excellent example of a good slogan.

It's clear and concise. It evokes the intended message at first glance. It is impossible for the other side to twist into a negative.

All Democrat slogans should be like that.

[Fugus]

2020 has been a long year, I know, but when when activists started to say 'Defund the police' it was immediately backed up policy and examples. Immediately. Spokespeople were sure to explain what 'defund the police' means, damn near ad nauseum.

Democrats chose the the lazy route where they chose to appease Republicans instead of work with the cause...and it cost the party seats.

Agreed on that one. But you say they were backed up by policy, how many do you think actively took time to look at the policy? All they heard was the slogan.

Dude I literally was at a friends house and had 8 people watching me as I was explaining some of the stuff because they don't go looking for this information at ALL and the main thing that actually got them even listening to me was when he came out calling the Military Suckers and Losers, THAT was the one straw that was so far it made them wonder about him. I mentioned the marginal tax rate above because I literally had to explain to them what that was and how no matter what the top rate was, they weren't paying it on all their money after pivoting from Biden stating his tax plan wouldn't touch you if you made under $400,000 a year. They didn't know ANY of it, don't know how to look for it for many of them or lack the drive to check or know what would be a reliable source.

[Draco-Onis]

Biden's slogan is/was "Build Back Better", which is an excellent example of a good slogan.

It's clear and concise. It evokes the intended message at first glance. It is impossible for the other side to twist into a negative.

All Democrat slogans should be like that.

If you pull 10 people off the street how many people knew Biden's slogan versus MAGA? okay not fair let's do that for Hillary Clinton you would get the same result. The last democrat that was good at messaging was Obama, Biden couldn't get through no one know what he stood for so everyone made up their image of him or focused on Trump.

[Fugus]

but you said a few ads on Hulu did it for them? do you see the inconsistency here? those were people who weren't going to pull the trigger on Biden. That's like your wife cheating on you because you didn't hang the towel the right way in the bathroom it's a flimsy excuse. There were countless ads in 2018 you know the last election cycle and they ignored those not to mention competing ads in 2020. I am asking you to consider the obvious they lied to you.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say a few ads on Hulu did it for them. I said I saw it on a few Hulu ads and I don't even barely watch TV. God knows how many times they had it shoved in their face.

Really, how is it THIS hard for you to understand something THIS basic?

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Biden's slogan is/was "Build Back Better", which is an excellent example of a good slogan.

It's clear and concise. It evokes the intended message at first glance. It is impossible for the other side to twist into a negative.

All Democrat slogans should be like that.

THIS. SO MUCH THIS!

The bad ones being stuck to you can cost your dearly. Because those are what are remembered more.

To quote Woody Allen in a movie, "You can build a million bridges and suck 1 cock and to the world you aren't a bridge builder, you're a cock sucker.".

[Shadowferal]

Democrats chose the the lazy route where they chose to appease Republicans instead of work with the cause...and it cost the party seats.

No.
Jaime Harrison had to fight uphill in SC...a red state and that means he had to pull a lot of votes from everywhere. And spending time and capital what everyone already knows how "defund" is defined would likely have cost him more than it did...when he decided to repudiate the slogan.

[PACOX]

While I disagree with you on the slogan being good or not you make a good point reminds me of the ACA democrats ran away from it and republicans weaponized it against them.

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but you said a few ads on Hulu did it for them? do you see the inconsistency here? those were people who weren't going to pull the trigger on Biden. That's like your wife cheating on you because you didn't hang the towel the right way in the bathroom it's a flimsy excuse. There were countless ads in 2018 you know the last election cycle and they ignored those not to mention competing ads in 2020. I am asking you to consider the obvious they lied to you.

I really couldn't care less about the slogan. I'm tired of people getting caught up it, allowing Republicans to dictate the direction of police reform because of it. Many people who identify themselves as being part of the 'Left' would abandon 'police reform' movement because 'defund the police' is too problematic for them. I wonder, know, those people weren't for the cause anyway but only cared about optics. So change the optics. They shouldn't let a group that's not going to vote with them anyway to control the narrative. Be an ally, not a roadblock.

[Edge-]

I'm tired of people getting caught up it, allowing Republicans to dictate the direction of police reform because of it.

Literally not happening, which is why Tim Scott's proposal was resoundingly rejected by Democrats as grossly insufficient. And why the House passed a much more broad and aggressive bill in the House - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...n-house-339691

We can argue it doesn't go far enough (IMO it doesn't), but Republicans are in no way, shape or form dictating the direction of police reform. Which is also why NYC just announced that they'll start a test program to send non-police in response to requests for non-violent mental health 911 calls - https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-exper...l-health-calls

So I don't know what they're "dictating".

[Fugus]

I really couldn't care less about the slogan. I'm tired of people getting caught up it, allowing Republicans to dictate the direction of police reform because of it. Many people who identify themselves as being part of the 'Left' would abandon 'police reform' movement because 'defund the police' is too problematic for them. I wonder, know, those people weren't for the cause anyway but only cared about optics. So change the optics. They shouldn't let a group that's not going to vote with them anyway to control the narrative. Be an ally, not a roadblock.

Never join a marketing team, they would throw you out with a quickness.

Would I support a movement to REFORM the police? Gladly.
Would I support a movement to DEFUND the police? Not a chance.

Would I support a movement to reduce their funding to send it to other programs to help them where they are lacking and make things easier for them? Sure but that isn't in the slogan and the average voter isn't going to go looking for the policy.

So, all they see is "Defund the Police" show me where it says REFORM in that?

edit: Dropping it now and going AFK. If you guys can't figure it out yet, then honestly I am not able to inform you on it.

[PACOX]

No.
Jaime Harrison had to fight uphill in SC...a red state and that means he had to pull a lot of votes from everywhere. And spending time and capital what everyone already knows how "defund" is defined would likely have cost him more than it did...when he decided to repudiate the slogan.

Youre making a claim about an unsupported hypothetical with a candidate that got his ass kicked.

I could just as easily say he would have won if he just shouted 'DEFUND THE POLICE" on the corner...but we all knew that would be ridiculous.

Just as ridiculous that he only lost by 10% because he did not say "defund" the police.

Or maybe we can say he let Graham run the board and outplay him?

[Cthulhu 2020]

One of the Democrat candidates was pretty far ahead in their race. Unfortunately they didn't get the 50% required. I think there can be reasonable optimism that he might pull out a win, but it will require a lot of campaigning and help from Abrams' registration army. I don't think they'll be able to win both races, however.

The AP seems pretty sure that whatever party wins the state will win both seats. I seriously doubt that, and feel like it'll be split as well.

[Hinastorm]

Here's the reality about Georgia: It's been a Republican stronghold for many years. It flipped blue for Biden, but just barely. A huge number of those voters are people who HATE Trump but still swing Republican and will likely vote for Republican Senators still. "Getting money for free from the government" is probably one of the last thing Republicans want hanging in front of themselves. The Republican candidates will likely scream socialism and win. You can't appeal to people who swing right with free money for covid relief, and I wouldn't really blame democrats if they lost.

If anything, these senate races will show how much of a miracle it was that Biden even won the state. I could be wrong and Democrats may win the seats, but I think that now that the general election is over, the people who wanted Trump out are done with elections, and the blue vote is going to be much more insignificant in runoffs. That's just how things swing in red states.

I refuse to believe that given the choice of meaningful stimulus directly to them, or voting republican, that more people would vote republican.

Call me naive or whatever, i'm gonna hold onto this one, for my own sanity.

You sit these people down in front of 2 tables, one is the democrat table with thousands of dollars in stimulus, and the other table is republican with the usual republican shit, most people are gonna go to the democratic table.

[PACOX]

Literally not happening, which is why Tim Scott's proposal was resoundingly rejected by Democrats as grossly insufficient. And why the House passed a much more broad and aggressive bill in the House - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...n-house-339691

We can argue it doesn't go far enough (IMO it doesn't), but Republicans are in no way, shape or form dictating the direction of police reform. Which is also why NYC just announced that they'll start a test program to send non-police in response to requests for non-violent mental health 911 calls - https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-exper...l-health-calls

So I don't know what they're "dictating".

Come on now. Everyone who participates this thread knows the House Dems passes bills left and right because they know they don't have actually stand behind them. McConnell will gladly absolve them of any responsibility. Anything that they might actually have to answer to has to pass through one of Pelosci's focus groups.

All in all, what I'm reading is that New Yorkers move another step towards proper police reform by getting behind "Defund the Police".

[Edge-]

Come on now. Everyone who participates this thread knows the House Dems passes bills left and right because they know they don't have actually stand behind them. McConnell will gladly absolve them of any responsibility. Anything that they might actually have to answer to has to pass through one of Pelosci's focus groups.

Cool, so nothing Democrats in the House do matters because McConnell? That's a good way to casually dismiss anything they pass. And it still doesn't show that they're letting Republicans dictate the approach, because they told Tim Scott to fuck off.

All in all, what I'm reading is that New Yorkers move another step towards proper police reform by getting behind "Defund the Police".

Yes, this is happening at the local level. Which is where it's most impactful, and where it's needed most.

Because again. Democrats aren't letting Republicans dictate the direction of police reform. Despite your attempts to state otherwise, without evidence.

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https://www.ajc.com/politics/live-up...LTBGDT47CMOBU/

Republicans are getting their GA recount, but they're still mad about it. What sore losers.

[Endus]

2020 has been a long year, I know, but when when activists started to say 'Defund the police' it was immediately backed up policy and examples. Immediately. Spokespeople were sure to explain what 'defund the police' means, damn near ad nauseum.

Democrats chose the the lazy route where they chose to appease Republicans instead of work with the cause...and it cost the party seats.

It probably bears pointing out that the abusive, totalitarian, racist shitshow that is American police culture isn't a Republican creation. It's a bipartisan creation, with broad support from both sides of the political aisle. That kind of racist brutalization was the kind of common ground that used to exist between both parties, that they could really come together to propagate.

That's sort of the problem.

So of course a lot of establishment Democrats are opposed to that kind of reform. They're just generally smart enough to couch it in ways that don't immediately betray the subjugative intent.

[Benggaul]

The AP seems pretty sure that whatever party wins the state will win both seats. I seriously doubt that, and feel like it'll be split as well.

Yeah I read that. I wish I had their optimism. I believe both have a chance...but a sweep seems unlikely, especially given that both parties will be putting their full weight behind the campaigns and the GOP have a longer history there--of cheating.

[Draco-Onis]

Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say a few ads on Hulu did it for them. I said I saw it on a few Hulu ads and I don't even barely watch TV. God knows how many times they had it shoved in their face.

Really, how is it THIS hard for you to understand something THIS basic?

I understand you might be close to the these people but think these are adults with basic thinking skills they weren't swayed by a few ads give them a little bit of credit. Instead of trying to so hard to make excuses for them face the obvious they weren't going to do it to begin with if it wasn't defund the police, it would be taxes, regulation or a number of things people use for their bad choices.

[beanman12345]

Here's the reality about Georgia: It's been a Republican stronghold for many years. It flipped blue for Biden, but just barely. A huge number of those voters are people who HATE Trump but still swing Republican and will likely vote for Republican Senators still. "Getting money for free from the government" is probably one of the last thing Republicans want hanging in front of themselves. The Republican candidates will likely scream socialism and win. You can't appeal to people who swing right with free money for covid relief, and I wouldn't really blame democrats if they lost.

If anything, these senate races will show how much of a miracle it was that Biden even won the state. I could be wrong and Democrats may win the seats, but I think that now that the general election is over, the people who wanted Trump out are done with elections, and the blue vote is going to be much more insignificant in runoffs. That's just how things swing in red states.

Maybe, but I don't think it's the republican stronghold it was 4 years ago. I don't believe it's just Trump, but there being enough eligible voters and getting those eligible voters out to vote. Remember just 2 years ago, Kemp literally threw hundreds of thousands of voters off the rolls, and only just barely won against Abrams. I don't know how the senate will pan out, but I don't think it's as strongly republican as it was half a decade ago, and imo is now a deeper shade of blueish purple then AZ is, and AZ lost both senate seats in the last 2 years. That state can and should turn more democrat for a long time, the problem being the republican state legislation suppressing Atlanta residents so they can keep power. So that's a fight Dem's can't give up on.

[Fugus]

I understand you might be close to the these people but think these are adults with basic thinking skills they weren't swayed by a few ads give them a little bit of credit. Instead of trying to so hard to make excuses for them face the obvious they weren't going to do it to begin with if it wasn't defund the police, it would be taxes, regulation or a number of things people use for their bad choices.

Dude, you are as lost on this was a Trump supporters are on Trump. The fact that you keep making excuses NOT to get it is something else.

You put words in peoples mouths you ignore what you are told and make excuses and everything.

While some of them I might be close with, others I actively have joked at for the stuff they think. Try again.

Actually, don't try again, if you can't figure this out by now, all I can say is NEVER join a marketing class and never try and get a job in the field. You would fail the class and cost any company millions or more from being unable to figure out why the message matters to the general public.