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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyDPS View Post
    So I raised a few months ago that with the level squish there would also be an item level and stat squish. At the time a LOT of people resoundly rejected this as it wasn't stated directly by Blizzard.

    Thought I would add this here as it has not been mentioned but we ARE getting an ilvl squish and from the looks of it a stat squish as well (sloots live stream ATM shows a Lvl51 in plate with 16,000 health)

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=311945/...squish-details
    it was obvious.

    blizzard is now making expansions into seasons.

    i bet that in 10.0 they will squish all 3 things again inclyding another level squish .

    you will never again progress your toons.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Yes, let's compare the current game to the iteration 15 years ago, what could go wrong?

    Maybe that we have 4 difficulties that ain't going anywhere soon is a thing? or that the whole fucking item structure is different since nearly a decade? hmm...

    - - - Updated - - -



    You can't make every item a trinket or trinket like though (over saturation) and we still have 4 difficulties.
    Getting Pants that have 15~% more power after a few months of the same raid just feels better than 5%...

    I'd go as crazy as to say that with the current nonexistance of set tiers i'd go with more than the 15 ilvl jump usual from raid to raid, 20-25 would feel even better.
    Still doesn't require a huge jump in Ilvl between difficulties or tiers. There are other ways of doing this. 1, have power gains be smaller. 2, have different items/itemization in the different difficulties. 3, reduce the amount of difficulties. 3 would be enough. LFR, normal, mythic.

  3. #43
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backstabak View Post
    With how few abilities and talents we have, most of the leveling provides you absolutely nothing and is just a chore. So level squish is really welcomed. Blizz really had to change new player experience because it was quite frankly atrocious. Far worse than even free to play games, so e.g. new tutorial location and level sqish seems like great change.

    Also for numbers, if they didn't reduce them from time to time, we would have likely run out of the integer length for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    The level squish was purely a design decision. They wanted to reduce the number of "empty" levels where you basically get nothing. Most specs actually get their last baseline skill upgrade at level 58(aka during SL leveling) now. Mathematically it's basically irrelevant and does nothing.
    Yeah..I can kinda see all that. Then again, I see ppl bring up things like "Oh it was so awesome to get a new talent point back then with the old trees" - to me equivalent "Oh nice, every 20 minutes I see the level ding animation go up". But ok, maybe a bad comparison.

    Also I like to point out how often ppl use the argument that WoW is an old game and doesn't even attract new players anymore, so why change it and possibly alienate the veterans? - But yeah...maybe game does attract new ppl.

    And apparently the path 1-50 is supposed to be even faster...so if it was still 120 lv we would likely ding every 5 minutes and that is just crazy.

  4. #44
    it baffles me that people are still upset about some RND numbers that dont matter power wise
    BFA Season 3


  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyDPS View Post

    That is extremely bad wording on blizzards part. Technically they are correct in that we are "just as powerful" as we are now, so they haven't lied bacause everything number wise is also going down, but that is so wooly as an answer I can see why people thought there wouldn't be a stat squish.



    I think the problem is the lack of clarity on what people understood by the squish. Potentially wowhead and others assumed that with the level squish a stat squish would come as well. Have no evidence of this but that makes sense as to how it has been overlooked
    Combine that with the fact alpha at blizzcon there was no squished ilvl or stats I wonder why people were fooled.

  6. #46
    Don't think there's actually a stat squish, a stat squish entails that each ilvl is worth less in stats but that's not true. The lower stats come from the ilvl adjustment, which also isn't really a "squish" because it matches better with our level, it's more an adjustment because a level 50 wearing 475 would be weird.

  7. #47
    The Patient LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Still doesn't require a huge jump in Ilvl between difficulties or tiers. There are other ways of doing this. 1, have power gains be smaller. 2, have different items/itemization in the different difficulties. 3, reduce the amount of difficulties. 3 would be enough. LFR, normal, mythic.
    No one will be excited if the next raid gives you 5% more stats on item x, you won't even feel it.
    15-20% is something different.

    The whole thing is a nonproblem to begin with, if they squish numbers every expansion so what? we already had 2 (or 3?) behind us and after some initial getting used to no one cares.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Don't think there's actually a stat squish, a stat squish entails that each ilvl is worth less in stats but that's not true. The lower stats come from the ilvl adjustment, which also isn't really a "squish" because it matches better with our level, it's more an adjustment because a level 50 wearing 475 would be weird.
    This is what is called "denial" in psychology. Especially as ilvl 385 appears to be going to 66, and ilvl 475 appears to be going to 130/140, which is not what would happen if what you were describing was going on.

    It was inevitable and it happened.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    This is what is called "denial" in psychology. Especially as ilvl 385 appears to be going to 66, and ilvl 475 appears to be going to 130/140, which is not what would happen if what you were describing was going on.

    It was inevitable and it happened.
    It's not denial, there is no stat squish, just an ilvl adjustment

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It's not denial, there is no stat squish, just an ilvl adjustment
    Sure buddy, keep living the dream. 800000k down to 16000k is definitely not a squish.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Sure buddy, keep living the dream. 800000k down to 16000k is definitely not a squish.
    475 down to just over 100 ilvl, of course you're going to lose health. They didn't adjust stat budgets.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Thagrynor View Post
    The issue is fine tuning.

    You say "oh, you get 20 Agi instead of 1110 Agi". But that means the Heroic version may have 1180 Agi. Which is roughly a 6% increase in Agi. If it were 20 Agi, then the Heroic would have about 21 Agi. Or 22 Agi for a 10% increase. But you would then also need to make 1 Agi a much larger increase to power than it currently is.

    Basically, larger numbers make tuning more like doing surgery with a scalpel while small numbers make it like doing surgery with a broad sword.

    This is because you cannot award fractional stat. Points, like 20.5 Agi.

    And Blizzard already has issues with numbers tuning.

    This is the same reason the other post about tanks having 2k health is fucking ludicrous.

    Currently a geared tank in BFA has about 1M health. If they had 2k health, then Ragnaros in MC would need to have about 1k health. Which means for "of level" characters to fight him, they would need to do about 2-4 DPS. Which means "of level" world mobs would have like 11 health.
    Ok, I see the point, with that said tho, I feel like you took my example as literal. From what I see, characters have 16k HP or something at sub 60? which means they still have more HP then at the very least, BC. I'm not sure how much HP we had in WOTLK nor what our stats will look like at 60 but that it still way more stats when we had in vanilla. The stats in shadowlands won't be so small that 1 point of agi is going to make such a big difference.
    Last edited by Kalarm; 2020-04-10 at 06:17 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It's not denial, there is no stat squish, just an ilvl adjustment
    No there is both, a naked 120 still has more hp (20k) than than those ilvl 75 premade 50's (9k) so both happened.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyDPS View Post
    So I raised a few months ago that with the level squish there would also be an item level and stat squish. At the time a LOT of people resoundly rejected this as it wasn't stated directly by Blizzard.

    Thought I would add this here as it has not been mentioned but we ARE getting an ilvl squish and from the looks of it a stat squish as well (sloots live stream ATM shows a Lvl51 in plate with 16,000 health)

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=311945/...squish-details
    PEople like you and I must stop regarding so highly what people say, even if it is the greater majority, if you have figured out something and have a strong instinct, and people are not listening to you or your explanation, that's on them, not on you. .

    In every group, you have the fat cat and the know it all, with some individuals who will never admit nor accept anything that they didn't think of first or realise, even if you say.."the sky is blue in the game", and though it is, they will find some way to make you sound wrong, incorrect, , because they must find fault with everything and only they are beyond criticism and reproach.

    Good for you, you were right, now look. half of the nay sayers don't even care.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    That is good to know, but yeah, there's recently been a couple of those "I told you so" situations, this one being one such example from what I understand.

    Here's the thing: even if you were right about it in the past, you were right about it based on a hunch, or wishful thinking that turned out to be true. This may happen, however it doesn't change the fact that people who were claiming otherwise hadn't had better grounds for their guesses. So yeah, congrats for guessing correctly despite there being no information about it, but if you previously claimed there was factual basis to those guesses (I don't know if you did, never seen the pots), you were still wrong, and this didn't change just because Blizzard ended up making the change.

    I can only speak for myself, but IMO for a rational person what really matters is how grounded our predictions are in reality, not whether they ultimately end up being correct. There is always a chance that something surprising happens, but that's not something you can realistically account for.



    I am not so sure there was a quote that there wouldn't be a stat squish and ilevel squish accompanying the level squish, but for sure there was no statement that there would be either.



    A capped tank cannot have 2k hp, because then the differences between classic-tbc-wrath-cata etc. raids would be so miniscule they might as well not exist, and Blizz wants them to keep existing.
    id like to see wotlk numbers again. 15-50k HP throughout the course of the expansion.. and like 5-30k dps throughout the course of the expansion.

    I really dont like how much numbers grow over the course of an expasnion.. I remember first hitting 120 in bfa and having what? like 120k hp or something? tops? now were at 500k+? insane

    as a matter of fact, it wouldnt bother me one bit if we stayed at 10,000 hp for the remainder of wow. HP number literally doesnt matter.. Stat numbers and damage numbers are all that we like to see growth in. lol
    Last edited by Recovery; 2020-04-10 at 06:37 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by fear View Post
    No there is both, a naked 120 still has more hp (20k) than than those ilvl 75 premade 50's (9k) so both happened.
    Of course a 120 has more hp than a lvl 50, you have 70 levels less in base stats.

  17. #57
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    I'd like to see a hard reset/squish to Classic WoW numbers. Level 60 is the time to do it and they could rebuild the curve of gear to accommodate it. Level 51 with 15k+ hp is absurd.

    With Classic numbers, they were able to avoid a squish until Warlords of Draenor. That's 5 expansions of content (Classic, BC, LK, Cat, MoP) that they could have before needing to do another squish.
    Right now it's looking close to LK numbers at level 51. If we get close to Cata numbers at 60, that'll be 2, maybe 3, expansions before they do it again.
    "Okay, Robin. Together, we're gonna punch these guys so hard, words describing the impact are gonna spontaneously materialize out of thin air."
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Of course a 120 has more hp than a lvl 50, you have 70 levels less in base stats.
    youtu.be/qXQ-uyotkfw?t=871

    Oh look lvl 50 and it looks like just lvl squish, so clearly more happened between blizzcon and now than just a ilvl nerf.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by fear View Post
    youtu.be/qXQ-uyotkfw?t=871

    Oh look lvl 50 and it looks like just lvl squish, so clearly more happened between blizzcon and now than just a ilvl nerf.
    Yea, they reduced ilvl since blizzcon, not surprising. Lower ilvl = lower stat budget.

    Stat squish means each ilvl is worth less, this is just lower ilvl and lvl.

  20. #60
    How can you have a level squish and not have a stat & ilvl squish to go along with it?

    It only makes sense that if a level squish happens the other 2 as well.

    Sorry you lost your numb3rs.
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