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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    The best part though will be when people jump into SL's and run LFR and get absolutely DESTROYED by super AF casual Mythicc raiders because LFR gear is total SHITE compared to the ilvl of Mythicc - then come back on the forums and cry a river because they can't stand up to mythicc like they can in todays RNG world..

    My smile will be big when this happens

    They can still drop heroic or even mythic quality gear in LFR. It would have a lower drop rate of course, but as long as that gear does not have random stats, then they have lived up to what they said “no more TF”.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Flay- View Post
    You already have it in your sig!
    Yep, like I said, it's going to be used a lot.

    Let loot be loot! :P
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!
    Life is meaningless. It is in death we are truly tested.

    Let loot be loot.

  3. #543
    I'm okay with random sockets if there's a way to buy a socket-item with Anima. Else that needs to go away with WF/TF. Speed, Leech, and Avoidance add next to nothing to character power anyway, so those can stay.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    I like this loot be loot.

    I mostly play casually and don’t raid or do mythic dungeons like I used.

    So it always felt weird getting weapons and armor at normal/ or close to heroic ilvl with out doing that difficult content.

    It was sorta like playing with some cheats on. Sure it
    Make world quests easier to plow through but I didn’t have the satisfaction of earning it with difficult content.
    It felt more like natural gear progression to me. The more I played the better my gear got.
    I'm a thread killer.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    The best part though will be when people jump into SL's and run LFR and get absolutely DESTROYED by super AF casual Mythicc raiders because LFR gear is total SHITE compared to the ilvl of Mythicc - then come back on the forums and cry a river because they can't stand up to mythicc like they can in todays RNG world..

    My smile will be big when this happens
    i am geniuinly curious what that "super AF casual mythic raider" is doing in lfr in first place as he has nothing to get there . more - he had nothing to get from there since end of MoP.

    to link recount resoults to people who dont even have any dmg meters instaled ?

    to measure his e-pen against people who dont care ?

    but i gotta admit 1 thing - people like you are definetly target audience of shadowlands.

    problem is last time blizzard targeted this audience was in WoD and costed them 5 mln + players.

    but hey im sure you are as confident when comparing raid logs from mythic mode

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by blankfaced View Post
    It felt more like natural gear progression to me. The more I played the better my gear got.
    well now in shadowlands you can just go play something else to get that progression

    because aparently blizzard dont mind loosing milions of players.

    guess that 6 months subs with mount must be going very well for them

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by blankfaced View Post
    It felt more like natural gear progression to me. The more I played the better my gear got.
    I can agree with that point of view. Didn’t think of it that way.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    They abandoned the expansion, therefore there was no content. You just said the same thing that I said.
    NO they didn't abandon the expansion because they still releaed Tanaan Jungle and all that content well after you said they abandoned it.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Philomene View Post
    It seems that some people should play Diablo instead of WoW if they want a RNG-based reward system

    The game worked more than fine before this bullcrap systems, glad they’re apparently gone even if I’ll believe it when I see it.

    What about you quit the game if you’re unhappy like millions of players did ? Maybe Blizz can actually see what the community really wants

    - - - Updated - - -



    But why should you run some lower level content ? I mean if you want to endlessly run RFC because it might drop an upgrade maybe you should just play D3 instead of WoW. The game worked fine for a decade while having a clear path of character upgrade. If you’re raiding mythic you have nothing to do in heroic/mythics dungeons. Nothing’s wrong with some content not dropping upgrades.

    If read what iwrote i told you. Ive helped soooo many guilds get there normal and heroic clears and people getting their +10 done. There was incentive to help.

    There's a reason they added rewards Titanforging its a good incentive. It sucks during progression but after about 3 weeks gear isnt an issue. Ive been 470+ full socket for ages. Blizz noticed how shitty 80% of playerbase Everytime they tried to do anything it was to hard. Wow needs better players to do lower content and help out. That's the reality weather you accept it or not.

  9. #549
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    less loot?
    well my shit luck is about to get worse.
    #tracerisawesomelycute
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  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildpantz View Post
    If read what iwrote i told you. Ive helped soooo many guilds get there normal and heroic clears and people getting their +10 done. There was incentive to help.

    There's a reason they added rewards Titanforging its a good incentive. It sucks during progression but after about 3 weeks gear isnt an issue. Ive been 470+ full socket for ages. Blizz noticed how shitty 80% of playerbase Everytime they tried to do anything it was to hard. Wow needs better players to do lower content and help out. That's the reality weather you accept it or not.
    that was the role of VP

    but since people complained they hate doing content with casuals blizzard decided that there can be other solutions.

    such solution was TF.

  11. #551
    that was the role of VP

    but since people complained they hate doing content with casuals blizzard decided that there can be other solutions.

    such solution was TF.
    No the complaint was non-raiders having access to raid quality loot. That got killed off in MoP to it being shifted to a raid reputation and then finally when it was claimed to be threat to LFR progression which it really was given players could get higher quality of loot than what dropped in LFR. Add on previous Blizzard dev commentary that known guaranteed progression system are bad for player retention.

    Personally fuck that multi-rng system. VP system was a great system to encourage the idea to keep going in the face of poor RNG and for those who played at a slower pace could hold a middle ground in terms of progression.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildpantz View Post
    If read what iwrote i told you. Ive helped soooo many guilds get there normal and heroic clears and people getting their +10 done. There was incentive to help.

    There's a reason they added rewards Titanforging its a good incentive. It sucks during progression but after about 3 weeks gear isnt an issue. Ive been 470+ full socket for ages. Blizz noticed how shitty 80% of playerbase Everytime they tried to do anything it was to hard. Wow needs better players to do lower content and help out. That's the reality weather you accept it or not.
    Players shouldn't be required to play trivial content. It was like that in Legion and it was absolute snoozefest having to run LFR or normal raids for a chance of legendary. With fewer gear dropping you wouldn't be finished with gearing in 3 weeks, although I am sure that such time will come. That's fine, it gives you time to do things that aren't optional, but could be fun for you. Or you can play an alt. It's far better to be done with something instead of having to log in every day to grind so that you wouldn't be behind.

    Also having a carry for 80% of population is terrible design that shouldn't exist. Even the reason that so many people are absolutely clueless is a problem that Blizzard made themselves. It is because all of the content apart from higher m+ and HC/mythic raids is absolutely simple. There is no reason to even try and understand your class or mechanics so those 80% of people don't. Quite frankly things like LFR simply shouldn't be a raid at all. It should be simple solo encounter where you get NPCs to fill in the roles of other people. This would allow those who aren't interested in raiding to see the raid and actually do something there. As it stands now, LFR is design in the most terrible way as it is overturned for non raiders and absolutely irrelevant to raiders, while the queue also takes a ton of time. You would likely be able to watch how to bosses videos, make a normal raid and finish it before you would be able to finish LFR.

    BTW, I find it kinda funny that there is this idea that better players should carry the rest, while at the same time looking at covenant discussion here those casual players demand that the game shouldn't cater to those people who optimize their character and that everyone just should play the way the want.

  13. #553
    Brewmaster HordeFanboy's Avatar
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    Good changes but retail is still dogshit
    Legion is the worst expansion
    BFA=Blizzard Failed Again
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._google_trend/

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by Backstabak View Post
    With fewer gear dropping you wouldn't be finished with gearing in 3 weeks, although I am sure that such time will come. That's fine, it gives you time to do things that aren't optional, but could be fun for you. Or you can play an alt. It's far better to be done with something instead of having to log in every day to grind so that you wouldn't be behind.
    People didn't grind "so you wouldn't be behind", that was only a problem of top 0.5% guilds and people with OCD.
    And now after a 2 months there will be a problem finding anyone willing to do some more since "they already got good gear".

    Quote Originally Posted by Backstabak View Post
    Also having a carry for 80% of population is terrible design that shouldn't exist. Even the reason that so many people are absolutely clueless is a problem that Blizzard made themselves. It is because all of the content apart from higher m+ and HC/mythic raids is absolutely simple. There is no reason to even try and understand your class or mechanics so those 80% of people don't. Quite frankly things like LFR simply shouldn't be a raid at all. It should be simple solo encounter where you get NPCs to fill in the roles of other people. This would allow those who aren't interested in raiding to see the raid and actually do something there. As it stands now, LFR is design in the most terrible way as it is overturned for non raiders and absolutely irrelevant to raiders, while the queue also takes a ton of time. You would likely be able to watch how to bosses videos, make a normal raid and finish it before you would be able to finish LFR.
    LFR is not just for sightseeing, you can legitimately have conversations in there, socialize. It's not a problem "blizzard created themselves". It was already explained why LFR came to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backstabak View Post
    BTW, I find it kinda funny that there is this idea that better players should carry the rest, while at the same time looking at covenant discussion here those casual players demand that the game shouldn't cater to those people who optimize their character and that everyone just should play the way the want.
    Nobody ever said that good players should carry the rest so rest of point is invalid.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    People didn't grind "so you wouldn't be behind", that was only a problem of top 0.5% guilds and people with OCD.
    And now after a 2 months there will be a problem finding anyone willing to do some more since "they already got good gear".



    LFR is not just for sightseeing, you can legitimately have conversations in there, socialize. It's not a problem "blizzard created themselves". It was already explained why LFR came to be.



    Nobody ever said that good players should carry the rest so rest of point is invalid.
    They can go onto harder difficulties like how almost every other game works... to quote a blizzard character.

    "Let go...Let go... it is over..."

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    To their credit, I believe they've known this has been the better choice to make a better game for a while, but couldn't implement it for business reasons. Wanting to keep players active and paying for longer.
    But I have never once played longer or paid more because I needed more AP or thought I could get a piece to TF. I just played things I liked and found interesting.

    - AP was just a way of placing value throughout the game's activities. Otherwise they'd have to inject yet more gear drops or gold inflation to incentivize anything.
    - Titanforging was a means to stealth nerf and incentivize players to keep raiding even when their progression stalled out. What if you don't have any upgrades on the loot table, but you're still struggling at 8/12? Your raid is going to slowly power creep via TF. This was the stated intended design since MoP.

    I really won't miss either because I'll still just play things I like and not get bent outta shape over numbers, but I don't agree with the "Blizz made it to make money!" argument. It had a very clear, straightforward design purpose that people who can't manage their own game psychology turned around and went tinfoil over the purpose of. Blizzard is realizing now that no matter how they try to implement systems, they need to account for the fact that player psychology will almost certainly gravitate to the absolute worst, most unhealthy approach.

    Games wanting you to play them is not a conspiracy, it's their reason for existing.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    that was the role of VP

    but since people complained they hate doing content with casuals blizzard decided that there can be other solutions.

    such solution was TF.
    Spotted the special needs. You've been flip-flopping throughout this thread, some pages you're spouting about how you think they are going to remove rewards from Mythic+ (which anyone with a brain knows they of course would never do) while on other pages you reference groups in Shadowlands demand you are full Mythic+ gear, meaning it would be run a lot in order to get gear from it.

    Then there's the nonsense of you proclaiming that you were one of the very first to identify WoD as a terrible expansion.

    All the while you seem to completely ignore that the game more than flourished for years and years before WF or TF or even Mythic+ (which is fantastic) ever existed.

    Take a moment before posting again. You might find that taking that moment to reflect on what you've written leads you to decide not to post any more fickle trash.

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    They can go onto harder difficulties like how almost every other game works... to quote a blizzard character.

    "Let go...Let go... it is over..."
    to quote blizzard devs

    "people dont try harder difficulties - people quit game "

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Heph47 View Post
    Spotted the special needs. You've been flip-flopping throughout this thread, some pages you're spouting about how you think they are going to remove rewards from Mythic+ (which anyone with a brain knows they of course would never do) while on other pages you reference groups in Shadowlands demand you are full Mythic+ gear, meaning it would be run a lot in order to get gear from it.

    Then there's the nonsense of you proclaiming that you were one of the very first to identify WoD as a terrible expansion.

    All the while you seem to completely ignore that the game more than flourished for years and years before WF or TF or even Mythic+ (which is fantastic) ever existed.

    Take a moment before posting again. You might find that taking that moment to reflect on what you've written leads you to decide not to post any more fickle trash.
    i still claim that they may likely remove gear from mythic +

    otherwise weekly chest system with you picking and choosing upgrades (and always choosing BiS) connected with limited gear from raids doesnt make sense.

    just wait and see.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    to quote blizzard devs

    "people dont try harder difficulties - people quit game "

    - - - Updated - - -



    i still claim that they may likely remove gear from mythic +

    otherwise weekly chest system with you picking and choosing upgrades (and always choosing BiS) connected with limited gear from raids doesnt make sense.

    just wait and see.
    Perhaps that is for the best?

    It might be time that the game play loop is looked at rather then the reward loop for WoW. It might well be better to have a boom and bust between patches rather then just a slow withering decline from people quitting from the grinds.

  20. #560
    Probably already mentioned somewhere in the multiple pages, but really expected the first post to reference another quote from Ion:

    “A fifteen item level upgrade, like a one tier upgrade should be something you can just blindly equip.” - Ion Hazzikostas 2016

    Let loot be loot has a nice soundbite, but their track record isn't particularly good in this regard

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