Its incredible that there hasn't been a new ranged class added to the game.

[Shiza]

The Demonology tank worked out just fine. Its only issue was that it wasn't crit immune and couldn't generate enough threat. That was done on purpose.

Classic Retribution Paladins worked out just fine. Its only issues are, that it doesn't do damage and starves out of ressources immediately.

[Ielenia]

And bosses would run up to those ranged tanks as well, and they still performed just fine.

Making them being "ranged" a complete moot point. What's the point of "ranged" if you're fighting in melee every single time?

It should also be noted that those games also had melee tanks as well.

And that is completely irrelevant information. Are you going to point out that you could strafe with your characters in those games as well? That you could equip gear on your character as well? That you needed experience points to level up in those games as well?

Or if they purposely design raid bosses for that expansion's content with ranged tanks in mind. The only relevant content would be the current raid bosses.

It isn't as easy as just "make content for ranged tanks". The game's mechanics do not allow for a proper ranged tank, Teriz:

A ranged tank is useless in WoW, for one reason only: raid bosses are taunt-immune from pets and companions, and they'll either run to the tank if they're mobile, or start one-shotting the melee, one by one.

Bosses with primarily ranged abilities are a pain to position, and bosses running over to the """"ranged"""" tank screws over the melee who would have to run after the boss to compensate. It also means that "ranged tanks" would have to worry about ranged mechanics, as well. The way the game is designed, it simply has no way of supporting a ranged tank.

The Demonology tank worked out just fine. Its only issue was that it wasn't crit immune and couldn't generate enough threat. That was done on purpose.

It didn't, and not because of the reasons you described. Ranged tanking is, at best, a gimmick: the boss will always run to the tank. If stationary, will start killing the melee.

[Teriz]

Making them being "ranged" a complete moot point. What's the point of "ranged" if you're fighting in melee every single time?

Again, not if there are boss battles specifically designed for ranged tanking.

And that is completely irrelevant information.

So again, lesser developers can develop raids with ranged and melee tanks, but Blizzard can't?

It isn't as easy as just "make content for ranged tanks".

Uh, that's exactly how easy it is.

[Shiza]

Again, not if there are boss battles specifically designed for ranged tanking.

Then go on. Post this mechanics, which still would have melee focussed tank equally viable. Go on, we all believe in you, big boy.

So again, lesser developers can develop raids with ranged and melee tanks, but Blizzard can't?

Lesser developers can also develop a believable, satisfying faction conflict in which both faction can be happy with their chose but Blizz can't. Lesser developers who are overworked and on the bring of collape can also creat an aesthetically pleasing races with a good character creator, which Blizz can't. There are many things that Blizz can't do.

Uh, that's exactly how easy it is.

We are waiting big boy.

[Teriz]

Then go on. Post this mechanics, which still would have melee focussed tank equally viable. Go on, we all believe in you, big boy.

Lesser developers can also develop a believable, satisfying faction conflict in which both faction can be happy with their chose but Blizz can't. Lesser developers who are overworked and on the bring of collape can also creat an aesthetically pleasing races with a good character creator, which Blizz can't. There are many things that Blizz can't do.

Yeah, you miss the point. Wildstar and SWTOR had ranged tanks and melee tanks and it worked out just fine. If they can design raid bosses that work with both melee and ranged tanks, so can Blizzard.

[Shiza]

Yeah, you miss the point. Wildstar and SWTOR had ranged tanks and melee tanks and it worked out just fine. If they can design raid bosses that work with both melee and ranged tanks, so can Blizzard.

Wasn't the Tank subclass for the Bounty Hunter and Soldier more melee based? I havent played the game in quite a long time and even before prefered the force-classes, but I think the sub-class was more melee based, wasn't it the flame thrower one with Bounty Hunter? Where you are more Boba Fett, with just one gun? But then again, the Sith-Assassin was also a mix of stealth and tank class, which was rather dope. Probably my favorite tank in most mmos.

But then again, SWTOR and Wildstar had cool ideas, but failed miserably. So maybe Blizz more simpleminded and conservative approach just works out better?

[Teriz]

Wasn't the Tank subclass for the Bounty Hunter and Soldier more melee based? I havent played the game in quite a long time and even before prefered the force-classes, but I think the sub-class was more melee based, wasn't it the flame thrower one with Bounty Hunter? Where you are more Boba Fett, with just one gun? But then again, the Sith-Assassin was also a mix of stealth and tank class, which was rather dope. Probably my favorite tank in most mmos.

Yeah, like I said, a pseudo ranged tank. Also I agree, I think Blizzard should attempt some new concepts for tanking.

But then again, SWTOR and Wildstar had cool ideas, but failed miserably. So maybe Blizz more simpleminded and conservative approach just works out better?[/QUOTE]

They failed in a lot of other areas, but I've never really heard of either game failing at raid mechanics.

[Shiza]

Yeah, like I said, a pseudo ranged tank. Also I agree, I think Blizzard should attempt some new concepts for tanking.

But did they even tank that differently? If I'm not wrong, I'm pretty sure they played basically like the other classes once they entered combat. In essence it was quite similar to wow when it comes to gameplay.

They failed in a lot of other areas, but I've never really heard of either game failing at raid mechanics.

Wasn't endgame content or a lack of it exactly one of the reasons SWTOR failed? Though I think it was cool in terms of classes, especially on Empire side. Bounty Hunter and imperial agent were cool and fun tech-based classes.

[Teriz]

But did they even tank that differently? If I'm not wrong, I'm pretty sure they played basically like the other classes once they entered combat. In essence it was quite similar to wow when it comes to gameplay.

Instead of swinging a weapon in melee range, they blasted targets up to 10yds away. They were also better at kiting, and had an easier time pulling.

Wasn't endgame content or a lack of it exactly one of the reasons SWTOR failed? Though I think it was cool in terms of classes, especially on Empire side. Bounty Hunter and imperial agent were cool and fun tech-based classes.

Yeah, there was an issue with a lack of raids and new stuff in general (because they had to do tons of voice work for any new content), but it was never because the raids were viewed as bad or imbalanced.

[Shiza]

Instead of swinging a weapon in melee range, they blasted targets up to 10yds away. They were also better at kiting, and had an easier time pulling.

Considering how WoW works currently, I think if they were too good at kiting, they would need to lack elsewhere.

Yeah, there was an issue with a lack of raids and new stuff in general (because they had to do tons of voice work for any new content), but it was never because the raids were viewed as bad or imbalanced.

It had also a dark healer in the form of the Sith-Inquisitor, which was a plus that WoW should adapt.

[Ielenia]

Again, not if there are boss battles specifically designed for ranged tanking.

Alright, mister know-it-all.

Give me an example of a "boss designed for ranged tanking" that wouldn't be a complete nightmare for melee tanks, or even melee in general. What would the "mechanics that allow for ranged tanking" be?

So again, lesser developers can develop raids with ranged and melee tanks, but Blizzard can't?

"Lesser developers"? The ones who designed WoW? And even then, Wildstar and SWTOR are not WoW. It's not a question of "can't they create a thing", because they most certainly can "create a thing". The problem is that this "thing" has to conform to the rules of the game.

Don't you remember Blizzard mentioning that you cannot make your main bag replaceable, because it's hard-coded into the game? And the best they could do was salvage the key-ring code to add more slots to the main bag?

Uh, that's exactly how easy it is.

Considering how weak your grasp of logic and reading skills seem to be, I'm not surprised you think it is easy. Looks like you never had to design a batch file in your life, much less an actual program.

Teriz, here's a layman's analogy for you: a computer program is like a tall office building. You're very limited in what you can do with it in terms of design, once it is completed, without tearing down huge chunks of it and redo them just to change one thing.

[Shiza]

I'd say it should be impossible for tinkers to be included in the game because they wouldn't use an damage type which isn't currently utilized by other classes.

[NED funded]

Don't forget that there are actually less ranged specs now because survival got turned into a melee spec. Blizzard has something against ranged specs seriously

[united]

All the 3 melee we have were popular classes already known that just weren’t added in classic. What does ranged have?? Bards?

[Teriz]

All the 3 melee we have were popular classes already known that just weren’t added in classic. What does ranged have?? Bards?

The Tinkerer.

[Ishayu]

Of course you'd say that. SWTOR and Wildstar had melee tanks as well, and they were balanced just fine with the ranged tanks. If those companies can do it, Blizzard can as well. Heck, the Demonology tank from MoP was almost a viable tank, and it had nothing to do with its abilities (all ranged), it was because Blizzard didn't want a spec encased inside a glyph.

Well, I think it's a good idea.

Blizzard also kindda implemented it, and it's called Survival Hunter.

Unfortuantely Blizzard decided to take a ranged spec to the grave to do it.

I'd personally like it if the rogue Yarrrrr! spec went in this direction. They've already got guns and stuff.

If nothing else, it might be fun with a class that has 3 specs: Melee, semi-ranged, and entirely ranged. No tanking or healing - just a pure DPS class - but one that can really fit any raid team.

What should it be called? I don't know. Suggestions are welcome. What about a Warden?

[Shiza]

The Tinkerer.

The Tinker in your vision is a pure melee though. I am for the bard with the specs Power Metal as Tank, Death Metal as DPS and Glam Rock as Healer.

[Teriz]

The Tinker in your vision is a pure melee though. I am for the bard with the specs Power Metal as Tank, Death Metal as DPS and Glam Rock as Healer.

The Tinker's offensive abilities per WC3 and HotS:

Pocket Factory: Ranged
Cluster Rockets: Ranged
Rock it Turret: Ranged
Xplodium Charge: Ranged
Deth Lazor: Ranged
Grav-O-Bomb 3000: Ranged

Notice a pattern here?

[justandulas]

It’s shameful they never added a necromancer

[Shiza]

The Tinker's offensive abilities per WC3 and HotS:

Pocket Factory: Ranged
Cluster Rockets: Ranged
Rock it Turret: Ranged
Xplodium Charge: Ranged
Deth Lazor: Ranged
Grav-O-Bomb 3000: Ranged

Notice a pattern here?

His auto attacks are melee though. And so far, mecha-riding enemies ingame always engage in melee combat.