Chances for baseline interrupt for Warlock

[Underverse]

Think a little. All classes have interrupt baseline. Warlock doesn't.

Warlock has a shit load of other utility (that I listed above). Which other classes don't have.

They have something you don't. You have something they don't. It is so simple. You have a weakness. They have a weakness. Yours is the lack of interrupt, theirs is the lack of Battle Ress, healthstones, Gateway, Summ Portal, vareity of pet utility, etc.

Pretty decent raid utility. But for PvP? I just tried out a windwalker monk and the toolkit is miles apart.

[Shinrael]

Pretty decent raid utility. But for PvP? I just tried out a windwalker monk and the toolkit is miles apart.

I don't think so.

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Yeah I dont buy that, EVERY class has something that others dont, but warlocks dont have a baseline interrupt for absolute zero reason.

Because they have many other things that other classes don't. You can't have everything. Get ahold of yourself.

[Underverse]

I don't think so.

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Because they have many other things that other classes don't. You can't have everything. Get ahold of yourself.

WW: AOE stun, disorient, two mobility abilities, baseline interrupt, heal, mortal strike, three slows, static teleport, poison/disease removal, area protection (ring of peace), two defensive cds (a third optional if talented), disarm.

Affliction (but generally, warlock): AOE stun, horror, fear, pet interrupt, healthstone, static teleport, demonic portal, one defensive cd (another optional if talented).

It's not really close.

[Aresk]

If that is the case, then why does all other dps-classes have a baseline interupt, except the warlock? I dont understand why they need to be an exception.

Fel hunter is a perfectly viable interrupt. 24 sec cooldown is a bit long but doable. Compared to the 45 sec of Silence or the 1 minute of Solar Beam, I think it's pretty good. Most mobs can be interrupted with Shadowfury as well or Seduce or Axe Toss or Fear, so the only time I can see it an issue is when the following are all true:

1) You just can't live without void walker/imp.
2) You have to fight stun/CC-immune mobs.
3) The content is outside a group, where someone else can bring an interrupt.

How often are you running into that situation?

[Aresk]

WW: AOE stun, disorient, two mobility abilities, baseline interrupt, heal, mortal strike, three slows, static teleport, poison/disease removal, area protection (ring of peace), two defensive cds (a third optional if talented), disarm.

Affliction (but generally, warlock): AOE stun, horror, fear, pet interrupt, healthstone, static teleport, demonic portal, one defensive cd (another optional if talented).

It's not really close.

What is WW's disorient, mortal strike, two slows outside of disable, disarm, and second defensive (touch of karma I assume is the first)? I haven't done PvP as WW, but I don't recognize any of these from PvE talents and abilities, and you surely can't take six of these across three PvP talents I hope!

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The main issue is that all other dps-classes has a baseline interrupt while warlocks has to sacrifice something else to get it.

I get that my balance druid isn't sacrificing anything for his 1-minute interrupt, but there's world content I can't do because the big heal that needs to be interrupted has a faster cooldown than sixty seconds and heals for more damage than I can reliable do in the interim (at least last patch; now my DPS is high enough that I doubt it's a problem). A warlock can dismiss the current pet and summon the felstalker in combat if necessary, allowing you to do that content.

[Shinrael]

Okay lets put it this way then, imagine if a tankspec didnt have a taunt-spell, do you think players would like that?

1) I can imagine it if threat-generation from AoE and other spells is buffed to compensate. Basically, you lose something, you gain something.
2) You need taunt (or some form of threat-generation) to tank. That's what a tank does. DPS does DPS. Interrupt is a bonus. Most healers and tanks can interrupt as well, so interrupt is not a DPS-specific tool at all. If you can provide some off-healing with your Healthstones, save the healers some downtime by giving them Gateway mobility, etc, they can interrupt in your stead. Don't worry about it.

WW: AOE stun, disorient, two mobility abilities, baseline interrupt, heal, mortal strike, three slows, static teleport, poison/disease removal, area protection (ring of peace), two defensive cds (a third optional if talented), disarm.

Affliction (but generally, warlock): AOE stun, horror, fear, pet interrupt, healthstone, static teleport, demonic portal, one defensive cd (another optional if talented).

It's not really close.

That AoE stun is a talent. The heal is very low. Also you did not list all of the abilities that a Warlock brings, specifically omitting 2 of the most powerful ones - Demonic Gateway and Soulstone. And no, they are not PvE only. In the right hands, they are very powerful PvP tools as well. Soulstone alone is enough to compensate for everything else that you lack. Only 3 classes in the game have a CR. And this is the only one that can pre-cast it if necessary (so it will be effective even if the warlock himself died). If you get an interrupt, then maybe Monks should get a CR as well? Let's give to Ret pala as well while we are at it. They've are unwanted enough as it is. Actually let's give one to Frost mage as well? Because outside of Freeze x3 + slows + ice block x2 + spellsteal/curse remove and blink and interrupt, they have nothing else. They have no Fear, no AoE stun, no heal, no ress See how it goes?

[JustaWarlock]

Warlocks dont need a baseline interrupt on themselves really, it's quite proper for it to be on the pet. Having a felhunter out isn't a big deal for aff/destro. Having CS tied to the felhunter is good class fantasy. We don't need to homogenize classes further.

Demonology is the only time this doesn't fit, and that is because demonology doesn't have a choice of pets. it's felguard, or respec. Telling demo to use the felhunter is the equivalent of telling a BM hunter to not use a pet.

They either need to give demo access to empowered other pets that can do similar dps (ie an observer to replace the felhunter etc), or make axe toss also interrupt stun immune mobs. It's really that simple.

I should add though that some other classes need their interrupts looked at, and either removed or given a bit of class flavour treatment so they're not all superior versions of the same thing.

[Lucrece]

Warlocks dont need a baseline interrupt on themselves really, it's quite proper for it to be on the pet. Having a felhunter out isn't a big deal for aff/destro. Having CS tied to the felhunter is good class fantasy. We don't need to homogenize classes further.

Demonology is the only time this doesn't fit, and that is because demonology doesn't have a choice of pets. it's felguard, or respec. Telling demo to use the felhunter is the equivalent of telling a BM hunter to not use a pet.

They either need to give demo access to empowered other pets that can do similar dps (ie an observer to replace the felhunter etc), or make axe toss also interrupt stun immune mobs. It's really that simple.

I should add though that some other classes need their interrupts looked at, and either removed or given a bit of class flavour treatment so they're not all superior versions of the same thing.

Axe toss will never function as an interrupt because of the travel time and humongous cd for what is basically a single target interrupt.

Just give demo the call felhunter pvp talent as a core ability.

[Razion]

It has always felt bad to have the interrupt abilities tied to the pets. Just making "Spell Lock" into an ability for the Warlock is probably overdue at this point. This way Demo also doesn't need Axe Toss to interrupt, because they would have Spell Lock anyway. Besides, if Warlock pets no longer have individual utilities, that helps lead to a road where Warlocks may be able to tame demons in the future. I approve of Warlocks getting the interrupt baseline for themselves.

[Amariw]

Fel hunter is a perfectly viable interrupt. 24 sec cooldown is a bit long but doable. Compared to the 45 sec of Silence or the 1 minute of Solar Beam, I think it's pretty good. Most mobs can be interrupted with Shadowfury as well or Seduce or Axe Toss or Fear, so the only time I can see it an issue is when the following are all true:

1) You just can't live without void walker/imp.
2) You have to fight stun/CC-immune mobs.
3) The content is outside a group, where someone else can bring an interrupt.

How often are you running into that situation?

Always, when playing demonology. They have the biggest issue here, felhunter is enough for dest and aff because you dont gimp your dmg (something a damage specc can't afford in any serious content). But demo has to significantly gimp itself, even give up two important talents. An interrupt effect for the felguard stun, or simply baseline interrupt for demonology ("call felhunter") would solve this. Should have been done years ago.

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1) I can imagine it if threat-generation from AoE and other spells is buffed to compensate. Basically, you lose something, you gain something.
2) You need taunt (or some form of threat-generation) to tank. That's what a tank does. DPS does DPS. Interrupt is a bonus. Most healers and tanks can interrupt as well, so interrupt is not a DPS-specific tool at all. If you can provide some off-healing with your Healthstones, save the healers some downtime by giving them Gateway mobility, etc, they can interrupt in your stead. Don't worry about it.



That AoE stun is a talent. The heal is very low. Also you did not list all of the abilities that a Warlock brings, specifically omitting 2 of the most powerful ones - Demonic Gateway and Soulstone. And no, they are not PvE only. In the right hands, they are very powerful PvP tools as well. Soulstone alone is enough to compensate for everything else that you lack. Only 3 classes in the game have a CR. And this is the only one that can pre-cast it if necessary (so it will be effective even if the warlock himself died). If you get an interrupt, then maybe Monks should get a CR as well? Let's give to Ret pala as well while we are at it. They've are unwanted enough as it is. Actually let's give one to Frost mage as well? Because outside of Freeze x3 + slows + ice block x2 + spellsteal/curse remove and blink and interrupt, they have nothing else. They have no Fear, no AoE stun, no heal, no ress See how it goes?

You're detached from this game and from warlocks, and presumably you don't do m+ above +15. Healers don't have interrupts, only one healer specc in the game has it. Shaman. Interrupts are an essential part of every serious content in pve and pvp. In raids you can afford to bring locks because many others will have interrupts instead (and you bring dest or aff ussualy anyway which can do it). In m+ bringing a lock to shrine of the storm is a liability. Sure you might still do it, but you're gimping yourself. Should locks not do shrine of the storm? Soulstone is irrelevant to pvp, even in bgs, do you even pvp?

Was gonna write more but you dont seem like you even play this game, like seriously man i wanna assume you're honest but if you don't know locks and don't play wow go lurk in some other forum.

[Aresk]

Always, when playing demonology. They have the biggest issue here, felhunter is enough for dest and aff because you dont gimp your dmg (something a damage specc can't afford in any serious content). But demo has to significantly gimp itself, even give up two important talents. An interrupt effect for the felguard stun, or simply baseline interrupt for demonology ("call felhunter") would solve this. Should have been done years ago.

I did horrific visions with two demo warlocks. Neither went with felhunter. Most mobs could be stunned. The tank and the other DPS got 2/3 of the other interrupts, with occasionally an interrupt going missed. We still finished without much issue. When playing my demo lock, I generally just make do with the stun interrupts; I couldn't do Oronu with my felguard, but I could summon my felhunter and just sac the DPS when the interrupt was worth more. My boomkin can't do that.

It would be nice to have a baseline interrupt outside the warlock pet, particularly for demo. Other specs have it worse off, though. Don't even try those fights as a non-shaman healer.

[Eapoe]

I’m all for giving Warlocks an interrupt. Just make sure to take away gateway, or self teleport (especially working thru LoS), or Drain Health, or Chaos Bolt damage, or Health Stones, or pet stuns, or the Curses they’re getting in Shadowlands, or spammable Fear that doesn’t break from dots, or any of the other number of utility they have.

[Shinrael]

You're detached from this game and from warlocks, and presumably you don't do m+ above +15. Healers don't have interrupts, only one healer specc in the game has it. Shaman. Interrupts are an essential part of every serious content in pve and pvp. In raids you can afford to bring locks because many others will have interrupts instead (and you bring dest or aff ussualy anyway which can do it). In m+ bringing a lock to shrine of the storm is a liability. Sure you might still do it, but you're gimping yourself. Should locks not do shrine of the storm? Soulstone is irrelevant to pvp, even in bgs, do you even pvp?

Was gonna write more but you dont seem like you even play this game, like seriously man i wanna assume you're honest but if you don't know locks and don't play wow go lurk in some other forum.

Correct me if I am wrong but out of 6 tanks - Prot War, Prot Pala, Blood, Brewmaster, Vengeance, Guardian and 6 healers - Resto Druid, Resto Shaman, Holy Pala, Holy Priest, Disc, Mistweaver 5 tanks (save for Guardian) and 1 healer (Resto Sham) have an interrupt. So yes, saying "most" was incorrect. Half of the tanks and healers have an interrupt. More than enough to make it a "not DPS-exclusive" thing though - which was my point.

I don't consider myself a competitive player but I do like collecting my mounts and mogs so currently I am working on Keystone Master doing 1-2 +15 a week. Third week in, I am 5/12. So while I am not a top player I do have my fair share of experience (I also had to work my way up to a RIO score which would allow me to join groups without relying on any boosts, so that took quite some time and dungeons). I am a Frost Mage BTW. People ask me what spec and then I tell them it's Frost and they reply "lol". So you see... I know my fair share of "nobody wants my spec" X) Yet I can top DPS in a timed +15 run and have least deaths. Just because my class is considered "weak" I can still perform well with what I have at my disposal. If anything the problem is in the community that they see the top players who opt only for FotM specs and think that they have to apply the same logic to their +15 runs.

Specifically for Shrine you can summon your Felhunter for the second boss and sacrifice some damage if you don't have enough interrupts across the other members of the group. Now I am not sure how essential your Felguard is for Demonology, but Affliction and Destruction can certainly afford to switch out their preferred pet for a Felhunter for 1 boss fight. As a Frost Mage I end up gimping myself all the time. Especially when I am told "stack on boss" or something like that. Basically means I cannot Shatter my GS which means my DPS goes from 90k to 50k. And you have fights like that a lot more often than fights that require you to have more than 3 interrupts in a group.

About the Soulstone in BGs - I assume it is because Battle Ress does not work in PvP? I must have missed the part where we talk about PvP only. No, I do not PvP much and not on a class with a Battle Ress anyway so I do not know if it works and I will exclude myself from the PvP-side of this discussion. If it really is such a problem in 2v2 and 3v3 areans (you can have enough teammates with interrupts for anything else) then perhaps you could have a PvP talent for it?

[Kaver]

I don't consider myself a competitive player but I do like collecting my mounts and mogs so currently I am working on Keystone Master doing 1-2 +15 a week. Third week in, I am 5/12. So while I am not a top player I do have my fair share of experience (I also had to work my way up to a RIO score which would allow me to join groups without relying on any boosts, so that took quite some time and dungeons). I am a Frost Mage BTW. People ask me what spec and then I tell them it's Frost and they reply "lol". So you see... I know my fair share of "nobody wants my spec" X) Yet I can top DPS in a timed +15 run and have least deaths. Just because my class is considered "weak" I can still perform well with what I have at my disposal. If anything the problem is in the community that they see the top players who opt only for FotM specs and think that they have to apply the same logic to their +15 runs.

Specifically for Shrine you can summon your Felhunter for the second boss and sacrifice some damage if you don't have enough interrupts across the other members of the group. Now I am not sure how essential your Felguard is for Demonology, but Affliction and Destruction can certainly afford to switch out their preferred pet for a Felhunter for 1 boss fight. As a Frost Mage I end up gimping myself all the time. Especially when I am told "stack on boss" or something like that. Basically means I cannot Shatter my GS which means my DPS goes from 90k to 50k. And you have fights like that a lot more often than fights that require you to have more than 3 interrupts in a group.

I play as a Rogue and do a lot of high keys in M+.

I'm just being honest here, I would never invite a Warlock to my group (unless it was an extremely exceptional player) but I would often invite a Frost mage. People who say "lol" to a Frost mage are simply stupid. Frost is an amazing spec for M+ and got some fantastic damage and utility. Fire is just better and therefore a lot of people then automatically think Frost must be bad, but it isn't. Fire is just better but Frost is still a really good spec in dungeons. Frost is definitely not a weak spec and should not be considered weak in dungeons. People are just stupid. You cant compare a Frost mage to a Warlock. A Frost mage is much much better than a Warlock when it comes to M+.

Warlocks are just not good in dungeons and I wouldn't invite one because I would just put more load on myself. If you have a dps in the group without an interrupt it just means that your own responsibility becomes much greater. I cannot see why I would ever invite a Warlock instead of a Frost mage. All the Warlock utility you mentioned earlier doesn't really add much value to M+. Sure health stones and CR is nice, but you can replace that with health pots and engineering ress. Those things don't justify picking a Warlock over another class (like frost mage) which got a lot more utility. You gain a little but it's nothing compared to what you lose by picking a Warlock.

As a Rogue I play a class which is fantastic in M+ and I just want to give my honest opinion here. Warlocks suck for M+. And I don't invite them to my group. I invite Frost mages and other classes but not Warlock. This is just me being honest. Warlocks are horrible for M+, Frost Mages are not.

Also I'm not trying to be elitist here, but I have a rio score above 3k and have completed more than 100 M+ above +15. So I do know a lot more about M+ than you.

[Amariw]

Correct me if I am wrong but out of 6 tanks - Prot War, Prot Pala, Blood, Brewmaster, Vengeance, Guardian and 6 healers - Resto Druid, Resto Shaman, Holy Pala, Holy Priest, Disc, Mistweaver 5 tanks (save for Guardian) and 1 healer (Resto Sham) have an interrupt. So yes, saying "most" was incorrect. Half of the tanks and healers have an interrupt. More than enough to make it a "not DPS-exclusive" thing though - which was my point.

I don't consider myself a competitive player but I do like collecting my mounts and mogs so currently I am working on Keystone Master doing 1-2 +15 a week. Third week in, I am 5/12. So while I am not a top player I do have my fair share of experience (I also had to work my way up to a RIO score which would allow me to join groups without relying on any boosts, so that took quite some time and dungeons). I am a Frost Mage BTW. People ask me what spec and then I tell them it's Frost and they reply "lol". So you see... I know my fair share of "nobody wants my spec" X) Yet I can top DPS in a timed +15 run and have least deaths. Just because my class is considered "weak" I can still perform well with what I have at my disposal. If anything the problem is in the community that they see the top players who opt only for FotM specs and think that they have to apply the same logic to their +15 runs.

Specifically for Shrine you can summon your Felhunter for the second boss and sacrifice some damage if you don't have enough interrupts across the other members of the group. Now I am not sure how essential your Felguard is for Demonology, but Affliction and Destruction can certainly afford to switch out their preferred pet for a Felhunter for 1 boss fight. As a Frost Mage I end up gimping myself all the time. Especially when I am told "stack on boss" or something like that. Basically means I cannot Shatter my GS which means my DPS goes from 90k to 50k. And you have fights like that a lot more often than fights that require you to have more than 3 interrupts in a group.

About the Soulstone in BGs - I assume it is because Battle Ress does not work in PvP? I must have missed the part where we talk about PvP only. No, I do not PvP much and not on a class with a Battle Ress anyway so I do not know if it works and I will exclude myself from the PvP-side of this discussion. If it really is such a problem in 2v2 and 3v3 areans (you can have enough teammates with interrupts for anything else) then perhaps you could have a PvP talent for it?

Yes, you can summon felhunter for second boss (and shadowpriest pack that follows if you need it), and yes that's what demo do in higher keys at those moments, but you're gimping yourself far more then a mage in melee who can't shatter due flurry travel time. You lose the felguards' superior dps, his multiple aoe related abilities and talents and the superior dmg and mobility they offer for any situation. Does it make shrine undoable for locks? Nope, but it makes them a liability.

Interrupts is too much of an integral part of this game, m+ being the key reason. In outdoors or classic it would be an ok, interesting "trade" with locks other strengths, but in bfa locks dont have other strengths. Healthstones are nice and little more, soulstones are indeed powerful there but their preparations isn't as good as DK's instant cast, gateway allows some skips other classes can ussualy do more easily or simply not need with awakened pillars. Our dmg is supbar, its not the worst and its good enough, but takes a lot of ramp for demo and major cds for dest, and is unremarkable despite that. That's a tuning issue that could change any patch, but as things stand warlocks simply don't bring notable utility. Mb in some other expac where you need big cc for all group members succubus seduce will suddenly be valued, but considering wow's modern fast pace, i doubt it.

You seem honest, so I'll suggest you just play a lock and try to get into keys. Its not impossible, but all the utility you mention simply won't be considered by leaders. Other classes have more of it. I'm personally not too bothered by this, in today's wow ultra competitive environment there will always be less meta speccs, spriests are in a similar boat. But that's why at least a working interrupt for demonology without gimping is something healthy for them and the game, and the aoe cap for melee in shadowlands seem like a decent way to make casters have more of a niche.

[Ragnarohk]

So here we are again a new expansion alpha and yet another period where people are hopefull that the changes they want will finnaly happen.
One of the most requested changes is that warlocks finnaly join the rest of the classes in the game and have their interrupts as a baseline ability and not having to summon a pet they dont particualry want to use just so they can do what every other class already can do.

As i see it there is plenty of drawbacks to not having it baseline and none having it baseline.
So what do people think? Will we finnaly get interrupt as a part of our core kit or will we still have to juggle pets?

Warlocks have too much CC going on. I think it could be done if Axe Toss and Seduce are removed. But that would homogenize the demons. Having all of that in PvP doesn't sound balanced.

[Shinrael]

Yes, you can summon felhunter for second boss (and shadowpriest pack that follows if you need it), and yes that's what demo do in higher keys at those moments, but you're gimping yourself far more then a mage in melee who can't shatter due flurry travel time. You lose the felguards' superior dps, his multiple aoe related abilities and talents and the superior dmg and mobility they offer for any situation. Does it make shrine undoable for locks? Nope, but it makes them a liability.

Interrupts is too much of an integral part of this game, m+ being the key reason. In outdoors or classic it would be an ok, interesting "trade" with locks other strengths, but in bfa locks dont have other strengths. Healthstones are nice and little more, soulstones are indeed powerful there but their preparations isn't as good as DK's instant cast, gateway allows some skips other classes can ussualy do more easily or simply not need with awakened pillars. Our dmg is supbar, its not the worst and its good enough, but takes a lot of ramp for demo and major cds for dest, and is unremarkable despite that. That's a tuning issue that could change any patch, but as things stand warlocks simply don't bring notable utility. Mb in some other expac where you need big cc for all group members succubus seduce will suddenly be valued, but considering wow's modern fast pace, i doubt it.

You seem honest, so I'll suggest you just play a lock and try to get into keys. Its not impossible, but all the utility you mention simply won't be considered by leaders. Other classes have more of it. I'm personally not too bothered by this, in today's wow ultra competitive environment there will always be less meta speccs, spriests are in a similar boat. But that's why at least a working interrupt for demonology without gimping is something healthy for them and the game, and the aoe cap for melee in shadowlands seem like a decent way to make casters have more of a niche.

Perhaps an ability that allows you to "sacrifice" your current pet and steal its ability but then when you summon another pet in its stead it cannot use its primary ability (so you can steal the Interrupt from Felhunter and use it while having Felguard up, but he can't use his Stun or w/e is considered his main ability)? This way you get a way to get an Interrupt anytime without sacrificing DPS for it whilst keeping class/spec fantasy and strenghts/weaknesses relatively in place.

[Kaver]

They have something you don't. You have something they don't. It is so simple.

It's simple, but extremely unbalanced in relation to M+. The "something" that Rogue, Hunter, DH, Mage have massively outweigh the "something" that Warlock has in relation to M+.

[kranur]

Not gonna happen. The whole idea of warlock pets was to use one that brings the most utility for specific cases, or in the case of demonology sacrifice some utility for more damage.
Besides, tbh I like having the interrupt on the pet instead of having to stop cast.
Now it is kind of baseline since you don't need anything special to have it on the felpup

[Gaidax]

Yeah I dont buy that, EVERY class has something that others dont, but warlocks dont have a baseline interrupt for absolute zero reason.

It's not "warlocks", it's Demonology.

Felhunter is as baseline interrupt as it gets and both Affliction and Destruction lose nothing using it when needed.

The only outlier is Demo where there are severe drawbacks there, but honestly it's not like it's the only spec that is gimped in that regard. Both spriests and balance have their own interrupt issues.