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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    This is without question a worse system in PVP at the very least. There is no world in which you'll be continually casting lunar strikes, and all your reliable focus target threat is in the one eclipse whose school is also shared with your CC and healing spells.
    Normally Starfires are actually easier to get out than Wraths. If you're being targeted you just get Owlkin Frenzy procs constantly, and if you're not then Starfire is the lesser evil of the two spells for ranged interrupts (mostly due to being able to heal and CC if you get Arcane locked).

    Starsurge still remains your #1 spell for bursting down opponents while DoTs are your over-time pressure, the rest of time you'll gather resources and try to get opportunities for kills. You can even try to play with Full Moon since you can cast it even when you get kicked on Wrath / Starfire (assuming cast school changes to Astral too).

    All in all you'll be able to chaincast Starfires just the same as you did in BfA, likely even more if you take Moon and Stars which got a huge buff.

  2. #382
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    You can even try to play with Full Moon since you can cast it even when you get kicked on Wrath / Starfire (assuming cast school changes to Astral too).
    Didn't they change MoonMoon into Arcane in early Legion precisely to make it suffer interrupt lock in PvP?

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Didn't they change MoonMoon into Arcane in early Legion precisely to make it suffer interrupt lock in PvP?
    Something like that yeah, it was very risky to cast Full Moon because it was so easily interrupted - and being Astral it would lock you out of ~everything. If the cast school stays arcane then you can't bait interrupts with Starfire (which tbh people should never really interrupt anyway), you can blast wraths and then upon interrupt a full moon though.

    It is a clunky spell so I can see it only being played with heavy control comps and others using FoE more pressure.

  4. #384
    So with the change to Eclipses and Starsurge I was wondering... would there ever be a breakpoint (haste, starsurge stacks) at which it would be more beneficial to spam Starfire with high crit chance instead of Wrath with more dmg? Talking about single target obviously.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by keymil View Post
    So with the change to Eclipses and Starsurge I was wondering... would there ever be a breakpoint (haste, starsurge stacks) at which it would be more beneficial to spam Starfire with high crit chance instead of Wrath with more dmg? Talking about single target obviously.
    Sure, but at high enough stacks you'd want to change back to Wrath anyway due to crit not scaling anymore. Realistically Venthyr is the only covenant where you could reach that high haste, but given the conduit that gives crit based on RF stacks you'll probably never get to the point where you'd want to cast Starfire over Wrath in ST

  6. #386
    i got the feeling that blizzard doesnt like dots (for any class) to be too strong, since this will make those classes kind of mandatory for spread multi target boss fights.
    They are also trying to avoid situations like "as long as you keep up those 2 dots you deal 40% of your maximum damage possible"
    Instead of buffing dot damage maybe introduce/improve the positive feedback loop for dots. (shooting stars - but less passive)

    -> make starfall and starsurge generate astral power for every dot on the target (Moonfire, Sunfire, Stellar Flare, maybe even adaptive swarm?)
    This way its still an active playstyle without relying too much on the dot dmg itself, while making the dots a mandatory part of the rotation.

    Example
    Shooting Stars generate 2 Astral Power right now.
    -> Everytime you use Starfall or Starsurge shooting stars are procced for EVERY active damage over time effect for 50% effectiveness (only 1 ap per dot)
    -> Typical 4 thrash mob pack. Every mob has sunfire/moonfire active -> 8 active dots. Starsurge/Starfall generate 8 Astralpower when used.

    BTW:
    Starsurge should also extend the duration of sunfire/moonfire. AND
    the eclipse system favors starsurge since it is not as costly as starfall. Both spells should cost the same. Please. (same problem for starlord)

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by dileria View Post
    BTW:
    Starsurge should also extend the duration of sunfire/moonfire.
    I'm always a fan of having less buttons to press, but right now that might be overkill. The spec has already been reworked to be braindead.

  8. #388
    I think you are partly right. The rotaton is not complicated.
    BUT the eclipse system is clunky...
    Reapplying dots during eclipses feels bad. - especially at the end of the eclipse.

    So i would let starsurge also extend dots (OR starfall shouldnt extend dots either.)

    Imho:
    Starfall and starsurge need to have the same or at least similiar interactions.
    Both are astralpower spenders. One is for aoe , the other is for st.

    No one liked the situation in bfa where starfall was not used, because it had no interactions with the spec.
    It shouldnt be the other way around either.

  9. #389
    You could just refresh your dots before you enter Eclipse. It's not like it randomly drops on you.

  10. #390
    Big nerfs to Ravenous Frenzy : -5 sec in duration wich hurt it preeety bad .

  11. #391
    Yeah, at this point I'm starting to lean towards Night Fae tbh... Reducing the duration of RF in any capacity is a bigger nerf than it appears because the longer the buff the bigger the output, so we lose 5 sec of when this ability is the strongest.

    I think it's becoming more and more about the conduits at this point, and Dreamweavers 10% at the begining or Niya potentially 350 mastery in the last row looks juicy.

    I'm just annoyed by the fact that there are some soulbinds for which you must choose between potency conduit or a good passive. Like for example Theotar 4th row: Soothing Shade looks great, but then it forces you into finesee conduit. On the other hand, if you want a potency conduit out of that row you have to slot into a passive that grants a shield to targets of your healing...

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by keymil View Post
    I'm just annoyed by the fact that there are some soulbinds for which you must choose between potency conduit or a good passive. Like for example Theotar 4th row: Soothing Shade looks great, but then it forces you into finesee conduit. On the other hand, if you want a potency conduit out of that row you have to slot into a passive that grants a shield to targets of your healing...
    They deliberately set it up so that you can always only pick either a throughput conduit or a throughput trait, never both. That's not an accident, it's on purpose.

  13. #393
    Well , probably going back to night fae .

    I dislike the asthetics , but at least CtS is more fun than RF and give us burst , wich we lack .

    Queen of winter is stylish as hell tho . Best looking convenant leader imo ( once denathrius is chopped into tiny pieces anyway.)

  14. #394
    I've got the slight feeling that they're going to keep nerfing the covenant choice towards insignificance.
    They've at least not been shy to suplex any ability that leads the pack.

    I'm gonna laugh if Necrolords suddenly becomes a good choice in a few weeks time.

  15. #395
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Insignificant is better than powerful. Then we can pick what we want to instead of being firced to pick the best performing one.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by GringoD View Post
    I've got the slight feeling that they're going to keep nerfing the covenant choice towards insignificance.
    They've at least not been shy to suplex any ability that leads the pack.

    I'm gonna laugh if Necrolords suddenly becomes a good choice in a few weeks time.
    I don't think they've been shy with their intentions of having Covenants be close to each other performance wise. Having an OP Covenant makes it easier for min/maxing but goes against the whole point of the system (regardless of whether you like the system or not).

    I wouldn't even mind Necrolord being a viable option, it's less hilarious then it being so bad you wouldn't touch it with a ten inch pole.

  17. #397
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Destiny Man View Post
    I don't think they've been shy with their intentions of having Covenants be close to each other performance wise. Having an OP Covenant makes it easier for min/maxing but goes against the whole point of the system (regardless of whether you like the system or not).

    I wouldn't even mind Necrolord being a viable option, it's less hilarious then it being so bad you wouldn't touch it with a ten inch pole.
    Necrolord basically can't be any good as long as our DOTs are worthless.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Necrolord basically can't be any good as long as our DOTs are worthless.
    Agreed, but devs could surprise us and actually make worthwhile changes to our DoTs (though I'm very sceptical of that)

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