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  1. #101
    Can we not like remove AP now and get shooting stars back instead? And charges on Starsurge?

    Also, old Starsurge animation.
    Last edited by Tyze; 2020-06-23 at 10:42 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Thats not exactly true, given how the spec & numbers currently work in Alpha. Solar being better for both, which is a problem with dots being so underpowered.

    And I'd argue against the spec working fine for two expansions, I'd actually say Legion and BfA iterations are almost the worst ones (only WoD being worse) of the spec. You literally don't need to think what spell to use atm, just press 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 in any order and you're good - get some procs and you're super.
    Well, that's arguably worse, since that just means you're locked into bad mode every other Eclipse.

    You're not really describing anything not working, though. Yes, it's not exactly the most interesting gameplay and probably has to much room for error, but i wasn't arguing against that. But it doesn't require you to jump through odd hoops, plant a garden before being able to fight, play in a counterintuitive manner or anything like that.

    And i'd definitely disagree with any claim that pre-1.8 wasn't the worst iteration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyze View Post
    Can we not like remove AP now and get shooting stars back instead? And charges on Starsurge?

    Also, old Starsurge animation.
    AP pretty much just is a more granular charges on Starsurge, so that wouldn't really change that much.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, that's arguably worse, since that just means you're locked into bad mode every other Eclipse.

    You're not really describing anything not working, though. Yes, it's not exactly the most interesting gameplay and probably has to much room for error, but i wasn't arguing against that. But it doesn't require you to jump through odd hoops, plant a garden before being able to fight, play in a counterintuitive manner or anything like that.
    Depends on the numbers, if the difference is 5% or less then it really doesn't matter (enough reward for high level gameplay, but not the end of the world if you don't make it)

    Every iteration "has worked" though, the difference is what you can do to differentiate yourself from others and last 2 expansions there hasn't been anythign - no hoops, no gardens or "counterintuitive manner".
    I guess it comes down to preference, and I prefer there to be gameplay decisions that affect the outcome - delaying eclipse to get the best usage out of it is definitely more than what we have right now, which alone makes it a better iteration for me.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, that's arguably worse, since that just means you're locked into bad mode every other Eclipse.

    You're not really describing anything not working, though. Yes, it's not exactly the most interesting gameplay and probably has to much room for error, but i wasn't arguing against that. But it doesn't require you to jump through odd hoops, plant a garden before being able to fight, play in a counterintuitive manner or anything like that.

    And i'd definitely disagree with any claim that pre-1.8 wasn't the worst iteration.

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    AP pretty much just is a more granular charges on Starsurge, so that wouldn't really change that much.
    We would get Shooting Stars back, some unpredictable procs. Me personally enjoy some procs playstyle

  5. #105
    Stood in the Fire Ihazpaws's Avatar
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    Why they can't make the starfire hit like a truck with stunning/dazing/rooting effect and give us back mushrooms and insect swarm. Whole solar thing is just boring and stupid.

    Basic cycle of dealing damage: Hardcast starfire(adds moonfire on the target)-insect swarm-wrath-wrath-starsurge(wrath and moonfire gives resource for starsurge)-wrath-wrath-starsurge-instant starfire(starsurge shortens cast time of starfire 50% per cast and increases the dmg a lot).
    Moonfire and insect swarm must be refreshed when running out of time (moonfire refresh also when target is hit with starfire).

    Currently it feels like you are casting same spells twice because they are pretty much same with different color and for colorblind like me I cannot even see the damn difference...

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihazpaws View Post
    Why they can't make the starfire hit like a truck with stunning/dazing/rooting effect and give us back mushrooms and insect swarm. Whole solar thing is just boring and stupid.

    Basic cycle of dealing damage: Hardcast starfire(adds moonfire on the target)-insect swarm-wrath-wrath-starsurge(wrath and moonfire gives resource for starsurge)-wrath-wrath-starsurge-instant starfire(starsurge shortens cast time of starfire 50% per cast and increases the dmg a lot).
    Moonfire and insect swarm must be refreshed when running out of time (moonfire refresh also when target is hit with starfire).

    Currently it feels like you are casting same spells twice because they are pretty much same with different color and for colorblind like me I cannot even see the damn difference...
    Because that's some boring ass gameplay from like 2009 MMOs that just doesn't cut it anymore for people who have evolved since then and want to have interesting gameplay with a certain level of skill ceiling. Seriously, what you're describing is basically the open world rotation of warlocks in literally vanilla (keep up 2-3 dots, use shadowbolt or searing pain, every so often you get an instant shadowbolt proc).

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Beingbob View Post
    Because that's some boring ass gameplay from like 2009 MMOs that just doesn't cut it anymore for people who have evolved since then and want to have interesting gameplay with a certain level of skill ceiling. Seriously, what you're describing is basically the open world rotation of warlocks in literally vanilla (keep up 2-3 dots, use shadowbolt or searing pain, every so often you get an instant shadowbolt proc).
    Well, there's always feral within the class for you.

    I find that impractical specs with tons to juggle are rarely if ever rewarded for the extra effort they take to pull off. Case in point, feral and Legion demonology. It's all tedious work involving carefully curated auras and add ons to be at best in the middle of the pack while mages, rogues, DH, hunter, DK and warriors roll their face on a keyboard and vomit DPS.

  8. #108
    Stood in the Fire Ihazpaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beingbob View Post
    Because that's some boring ass gameplay from like 2009 MMOs that just doesn't cut it anymore for people who have evolved since then and want to have interesting gameplay with a certain level of skill ceiling. Seriously, what you're describing is basically the open world rotation of warlocks in literally vanilla (keep up 2-3 dots, use shadowbolt or searing pain, every so often you get an instant shadowbolt proc).
    90% of specs have "boring" rotation. You can always play feral or demo if you wanna complicated and many times unfun rotatio cycle.
    The point with "boring" and simple rotatio is to make the class viable for many different counters and pvp. Current boomking just have it's spells twice with different colors.
    Specially in pvp if the dmg cycle is easy, you can do much in short time making the enemy team have to counter you which makes your gameplay more challening but sametime rewarding because you are causing problems for enemies and making a mark in a battle. And then having a skill that makes difference in seconds, a powerful skill that others fear, if you manage to get resources for it and use it succesfully it feels damn good. As a example Greater pyroblast and oldsachool Chaosbolts.

    "Boring" and simple rotatio is usually better than challening and fustrating one. Also many casters need nowadays good ways to throw powerful instant casts because melee classes are so dominating in almost every situation. Stuns, slows and roots have gone out of hand on so many melee specs that there really is only 2 caster dps that actually can win 1v1 or 1v2+ situations and you know why? They have "boring" simple rotatio with very powerful skill or 2 that everyone other fears. And if they get out those skills, enemy is gonna have to fight defensively.

    Also in pve it means nothing anymore to be able to put out crazy dmg with a class that is hard to play and master. Instead all the praise goes to that Havoc who was able to press 2 buttons and do crazy dmg because blizzard is too lazy to balance the classes every expansion.

  9. #109
    Wouldn't mind new moon seeing decent use again.

    Perhaps an interaction with eclipses and stellar flare.

    When in a lunar eclipse
    Full moon leaves Lunar dust on the target doing xx damage over xx seconds.
    stellar flare ignites lunar dust consuming the dot but doing aoe damage to enemies.


    Solar eclipse
    Full moon becomes - Solar strike.
    Strikes the target for xx damage has a chance to cause a vortex of solar winds to erupt around the target which deal periodic damage to nearby enemies.

    Probably a terrible idea, but its what lack of sleep does.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    We've already got reports. It mostly works like the WotLK incarnation(25% chance to proc on the opposite spell, 30s CD), except there's a clear distinction between ST and cleave Eclipses.

    I'd have preferred the Starfall change without the rest. This smacks of change for the sake of change.
    Random procs were fun, until you find out the Moonkins have very few threat mitigating tools. In WOTLK, I was smashed many times just by coming out of the gate with a random proc and ripping threat off the tank.

  11. #111
    Make Streaking Stars baseline (or at least a talent, maybe the ST go-to).

    Roll the Arcanic Pulsar functionality into New Moon, so that you can ramp into a mini-empowerment every now and then and create predictable, short burst windows.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Chewbaka View Post
    Random procs were fun, until you find out the Moonkins have very few threat mitigating tools. In WOTLK, I was smashed many times just by coming out of the gate with a random proc and ripping threat off the tank.
    Eh, neither is a concern anymore. Eclipse is now fully deterministic, and Threat hasn't been a significant issue outside of Skittish for a long time.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Chewbaka View Post
    Random procs were fun, until you find out the Moonkins have very few threat mitigating tools. In WOTLK, I was smashed many times just by coming out of the gate with a random proc and ripping threat off the tank.
    That was a key part of being a boomkin back then!

    Make Streaking Stars baseline (or at least a talent, maybe the ST go-to).

    Roll the Arcanic Pulsar functionality into New Moon, so that you can ramp into a mini-empowerment every now and then and create predictable, short burst windows.
    Not bad ideas, New moon base-line with streaking stars talented in it's place, changing shooting stars also capable of proccing from starfall damage.

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