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  1. #281
    You guys all seem to forgot that in the past autoattack dmg was a big part of the overall dmg of a rogue. SnD was a huge buff and needed near 100% uptime in pve.
    The first thing people looked over if a new rogue complained about his/her dmg was snd (and rupture) uptime.
    It was needed in pvp for different kinds of reasons over the years.
    Subs energyreg was tied to it, Assa had it passive after first use, but all in all it was just an autoattackspeed modifier. The things that proc with autohits will play a huge role with SnD together, but SnD alone is weak with the current dmg distribution of spells.
    In SL it will be there but it is nolonger "that" button of the past. Currently sub gains the most of snd because shadow technique scales with autoattackspeed. Faster hits = more procs in a given time. Assa gains only an annoying maintenance button and outlow is outlol.
    Dying could endanger your health!

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    That would be a terrible mistake for two reasons:

    1. We don't need more CDs and abilities that don't interact with our core resources of energy and combo points. Rogue shouldn't be another whack-a-mole class that is just push button on CD, resource management has always been a strong element of our gameplay, so much so that it became a model for every other class.

    2. Combo Points become boring when Eviscerate is the only spender. Rogue class used to have many different finishers for different strategic and situational applications. SnD brings back a small and sorely needed piece of that by giving us an additional spender that allows us to do more sustain damage, delayed to later, vs. doing more burst damage right now. This strategic choice is very important in lots of scenarios.
    its still an incredibly boring ability that i have never missed and i think that almost any other ability would be more interesting. It just needs some immediate flourish to feel good to push rather than being a boring buff. It could be redesigned very slightly to feel more interesting, but a minute long buff that you dont feel isnt interesting in the slightest.

  3. #283
    Warchief Beet's Avatar
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    Some of us actually like abilities that take skill to manage such as SnD. So don’t speak for everyone OP. Just yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    That would be a terrible mistake for two reasons:

    1. We don't need more CDs and abilities that don't interact with our core resources of energy and combo points. Rogue shouldn't be another whack-a-mole class that is just push button on CD, resource management has always been a strong element of our gameplay, so much so that it became a model for every other class.

    2. Combo Points become boring when Eviscerate is the only spender. Rogue class used to have many different finishers for different strategic and situational applications. SnD brings back a small and sorely needed piece of that by giving us an additional spender that allows us to do more sustain damage, delayed to later, vs. doing more burst damage right now. This strategic choice is very important in lots of scenarios.
    Now I agree with this one hundred percent. I liked when we had multiple options for our finisher. I mean it’s kind of pathetic when we have one finisher only. At that point it’s like why even have it? Just make it go off automatically when you hit five combo points.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    its still an incredibly boring ability that i have never missed and i think that almost any other ability would be more interesting. It just needs some immediate flourish to feel good to push rather than being a boring buff. It could be redesigned very slightly to feel more interesting, but a minute long buff that you dont feel isnt interesting in the slightest.
    It's a false dilemma to think that Slice and Dice is coming back "in place of" some other ability that could be unpruned.

    Do I want Gouge back more than anything else? Yes. I learned it after dinging level 6 in early 2005, it had been my "4" keybind ever since, and my Rogue has never felt the same without it.

    But SnD isn't preventing us from getting Gouge. I still want SnD back as well for the reasons I already elaborated. Our gameplay has become terribly one dimensional, dumbed down, and stupid with the pruning of so many finishers.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

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  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Slice and Dice was a definitive combat ability for a very, very long time, and as a talent in it's current form it literally makes you do less DPS than if you selected no talent in that line at all.

    I welcome it back, maintenance buffs are a very common theme in this game and a big thing that sets apart the casuals from the big boys.
    What separates casuals from the “big boys” is the amount of free time they have to sink into a video game.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    Now I agree with this one hundred percent. I liked when we had multiple options for our finisher. I mean it’s kind of pathetic when we have one finisher only. At that point it’s like why even have it? Just make it go off automatically when you hit five combo points.
    Literally every rogue spec right now, in game, on the live service has multiple spenders.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    Our gameplay has become terribly one dimensional, dumbed down, and stupid with the pruning of so many finishers.
    And which finishers are you referring to, Expose armor? Recuperate? You can't be serious that thoose two abilities would be a game changer. Its like giving curses to warlocks, or searing totem to shamans. just (IMO) useless. Crimson Vial has take Recuperate's spot, and if there were any other classes around you, you would never spend combo points on exposing armor.

    And yes, it is a non-troll , serious question. Maybe your answer might give me more clarity.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    It's a false dilemma to think that Slice and Dice is coming back "in place of" some other ability that could be unpruned.

    Do I want Gouge back more than anything else? Yes. I learned it after dinging level 6 in early 2005, it had been my "4" keybind ever since, and my Rogue has never felt the same without it.

    But SnD isn't preventing us from getting Gouge. I still want SnD back as well for the reasons I already elaborated. Our gameplay has become terribly one dimensional, dumbed down, and stupid with the pruning of so many finishers.
    i never said that its coming back in place of anything, but i see why you thought i meant that, i meant any other ability they could think of, like a dot or something else. Its not an ability i miss at all, roll the bones on the other hand i think was an interesting buff since it affected how you played and shuffled your ability priorities, unlike SnD where its just always there and if its not you are bad.

    I think it undermines the combo focused nature of the rogue, being connected to combo points feels awful, i get the feeling combo points were meant to feel something like a fighting game, where you execute some ability combination with a sweet finisher at the end, but thats not what SnD feels like, its a boring maintainence buff and its completely anti-climatic.
    Heres a simple 'rework', frontload some of SnDs attackspeed so that you get an immediate 180% attack speed for 3 seconds followed by 40% for the rest of the 21 seconds. Now it feels like an ability you want to press for its own sake rather than just to not let it fall off, you get an immediate reward for pressing it rather than only feeling how bad it is when not pressing it.

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