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  1. #261
    I think there is an easy solution. Just permaban any player who anywhere used the term alpha male unironically. Like, ever. All the toxic players are gone and fresh Tanks will have a better time in pugs and stop avoiding them so much.

  2. #262
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Blizzard has had ample time to come up with a fix for this problem. The "there are more DPS queuing than there are tanks and healers" is tired and outdated.

    Remember (forgot which xpac) Blizzard said leveling as a straight healer would be possible and running solo scenarios for rewards as a healer would be a thing?

    Why not implement a scenario for singular people without guilds, without the 20+ minutes of waiting AND then running said dungeon?

    AI has worked fine in brawlers guild, that gives rewards. It was viable in Proving Grounds, we started the fights as whatever spec we wanted...

    This is possible.
    the problem is that 4% of people in the queue are tanks, 19% are healers, and the rest are DPS.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    Its not at all people still have to dps and follow mechanics... It just one part would be automated. I really only play pure dps lol... So not really an option but if they allowed me to tank as a dps that would work.
    There's your problem. You won't tank or heal but want Blizzard to change the game design to cater to you. Entitled much?

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaar View Post
    There's your problem. You won't tank or heal but want Blizzard to change the game design to cater to you. Entitled much?
    I don't really do normal or heroic. I just think ai tanks and allowing geared dps to tank won't kill the game. I also never said at any point blizzard has to do this. Long queues and increasing the variables between play sessions for players hurts them in the long run not me. The games with the least amount of variables between session grow but wow and every hyper team based game blizzard releases stagnates.
    Last edited by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen; 2020-04-16 at 05:58 PM.
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  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    We used a warlock to tank one of the Emperors on the switch, way back in Vanilla. If I remember right, we just used a warlock to keep him from going toward his twin. It's been a few years, and I was pretty busy tanking the other one at the time.

    Also, (and this wasn't about what you said) many of the responses to me, about the tank situation: You can go right ahead and make it 6 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer, and/or other solutions, but you'll still have to wait for tanks.

    As long as the DPS treat tanks as disposable people that are supposed to always do it your way or be kicked immediately, this problem will continue...which means it will always be this way.
    Twin Emps was a gimmick fight. You had to use a warlock to soak.

    In Wrath, I recall reading about having a warlock voidwalker tank 3-drake Sartharion, so we ended up trying it and getting our first kill that way.

    I was always waiting for Blizzard to allow some of these hybrid classes (demo lock, enhancement shammy, BM hunter) the ability to tank dungeon and LFR content, but that would take a complete rework I imagine.

  6. #266
    The new Shadowlands intro for new players will have an AI tank and healer with you in a dungeon. My guess is that down the road this system will be expanded for effective "offline" play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Arthur Dayne View Post
    Oh btw, reported, you replied faster than the run time of the video.

  7. #267
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azerul View Post
    Make dungeons 6 man; 1 tank, 1 heal, 4 dps. This will directly lower que times for dps by %33.
    But it will also be a HUGE task to make work, because 5-man group is hardcoded into the deepest corners of the game.
    And if it ever comes through, tons of addons will have to be changed too.

    You are correct, that it will lower dps queue time (to begin with) by 33%. But you might also risk that less people want to tank/heal because "now dps queue is faster", and thus have no, or even reverse, effect.
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2020-04-17 at 09:49 AM.
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  8. #268
    DPS is still the only role that in easy content has zero competency tests. You can be as terrible as you want and it is extremely unlikely that it will hinder success in most pug content.

    If bosses had some kind of mechanic dps had to do successfully or the boss didn't die you would see the number of dps culled pretty quick.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    If bosses had some kind of mechanic dps had to do successfully or the boss didn't die you would see the number of dps culled pretty quick.
    Nah. The DPS would find a way to blame it on the healer or tank. They always do. It's never the DPS's fault, even if they miss the interrupt twenty times.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Boost gear is 390, get your cloak, do the start of Nazjatar and upgrade azerite pieces to 400 (80 manapearls, epic azerite has 4 rings, blue wq azerite only has 2 even at 415), then do a world quest tour for items (don't turn in emissary with item reward yet) and maybe invest some gold for a 400 trinket and a 400 weapon. Now you should be at ~405 and start tanking mythic +2/+3 with the goal of doing every dungeon once. Be sure to only apply for groups that have at least 2 players of your armor class already in them. After getting a couple of items you can turn in emissary with item reward which should be a bit higher now.

    I did that with a boosted monk over Easter and getting in groups was very easy since not only in LFD but also mythic+ pugs tanks are scarce. I ended my mythic+ tour at ilvl 440 having timed a +6.

    But yeah, if you are a pure dps class this method probably doesn't work on account of not getting into groups.

    On topic: dungeons are a group activity. There are sundry solo activities in WoW, don't try to turn what was especially made to be group content into solo too. Be part of the solution not the problem and tank/heal yourself.
    Firstly, the Benthic gear is 385, not 390. This can be an issue when half your slots are now 5 ilvl lower.

    Additionally, it requires unlocking Nazjatar on that toon. Not a long process, but a process.

    Also, maybe on your server it is reasonable, but on mine, I am not going to invest 20-30k gold on a 400 weapon that will be replaced almost immediately as soon as a heroic dungeon weapon drops.

    Assuming you get through the cloak quest at your likely 285 ilvl you have right when you ding 120 (which is pretty common), you get a high ilvl cloak, which is great but all your other gear is still trash.

    Benthic doesn't offer rings or trinkets. And like the 400 weapon, on my server a 400 trinket is like 20-50k gold. Not worth dropping that on something that could very well be replaced by WQ gear.

    Assuming you don't want to drop 40-80k between one trinket and a weapon (assuming you need only 1 weapon), you will have a total of about 6 slots with gear that is still ridiculously low level.

    Even for tanks who aren't flush with cash or just don't want to waste tons of cash, Normal and Heroic dungeon LFG is still a decent option with the current ilvl of drops.

    Are there potentially faster ways? Sure. But they have their own costs and draw backs.

  11. #271
    Brewmaster TheVaryag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Blizzard has had ample time to come up with a fix for this problem. The "there are more DPS queuing than there are tanks and healers" is tired and outdated.

    Remember (forgot which xpac) Blizzard said leveling as a straight healer would be possible and running solo scenarios for rewards as a healer would be a thing?

    Why not implement a scenario for singular people without guilds, without the 20+ minutes of waiting AND then running said dungeon?

    AI has worked fine in brawlers guild, that gives rewards. It was viable in Proving Grounds, we started the fights as whatever spec we wanted...

    This is possible.
    Because since the past 10 years blizzard has only gotten worse, ruined their game with their growing pride and ego and there's not enough players around anymore? So much so there's even DPS extra rewards If you queue up. There's not enough people, it's bfa, end of expansion, shit balance, bad class design.... you need a bigger list? lol, end of thread.
    Banned on WoW since April 2015 because Blizzard doesn't wanna help me when my account got hacked, Is being hacked not a good reason to return my account to me, Blizzard? I'm looking to speak to representatives and members of Blizzard's CS and other departments to help me fix this situation, since CS has failed me I want to seek other official channels. Feel free to message about this

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    Because since the past 10 years blizzard has only gotten worse, ruined their game with their growing pride and ego and there's not enough players around anymore? So much so there's even DPS extra rewards If you queue up. There's not enough people, it's bfa, end of expansion, shit balance, bad class design.... you need a bigger list? lol, end of thread.

    Banned on WoW since April 2015 because Blizzard doesn't wanna help me when my account got hacked, Is being hacked not a good reason to return my account to me, Blizzard? I'm looking to speak to representatives and members of Blizzard's CS and other departments to help me fix this situation, since CS has failed me I want to seek other official channels. Feel free to message about this



    lol like your opinion matters. comic sans because you're a joke

  13. #273
    The simple solution to this problem is to have fewer DPS specs and more tank/healing specs for classes. If I could tank as a demo warlock as I could in MoP when I made my demo warlock, I would. Add combat rogues back with an avoidance tank style similar to what we saw in BT. Add a shaman tank spec similar to what enhancement used to be able to do in classic. The fact only druid can fill every role (tank, healer, melee DPS, ranged DPS) means I only main druid now.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Thagrynor View Post
    Firstly, the Benthic gear is 385, not 390. This can be an issue when half your slots are now 5 ilvl lower.
    I was talking about boost gear you get with an instant 120 which is ilvl 390 including rings, trinkets and weapon.

    If you level a toon yourself it obviously takes a bit more effort to get to 400+ but then it makes even more sense to buy a 400 weapon/trinket. Take gathering professions while leveling and you have no problem at all paying for them.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    The simple solution to this problem is to have fewer DPS specs and more tank/healing specs for classes. If I could tank as a demo warlock as I could in MoP when I made my demo warlock, I would. Add combat rogues back with an avoidance tank style similar to what we saw in BT. Add a shaman tank spec similar to what enhancement used to be able to do in classic. The fact only druid can fill every role (tank, healer, melee DPS, ranged DPS) means I only main druid now.
    you couldn't queue as tank as demo lock. and you didn't have vengeance so your threat gain was actually garbage.

    But okay sure.
    also Enh never really tanked anything past a 5man quest.

  16. #276
    If tanks weren't trash at pvp, lots more people would be tempted to go for a career in tanking.

    Whenever tanks are good at casual pvp like wpvp and random bgs, somehow, magically, the queues are much shorter.

  17. #277
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Plenty of People play Tanks and Healers. They just don't queue with Randoms because they always have willing DPS friends to go with them.

  18. #278
    This is a player(community)/YOU issue, not Blizzard's. They can't just magically make tanks and healers pop into existence...

    Perhaps they can lift the Faction division for LFG/LFR, opening the pool of players in queue. We already got mercenary mode for BGs, and appear as the other Faction in a number of raids and dungeons... so I see no issue with this.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Blizzard has had ample time to come up with a fix for this problem. The "there are more DPS queuing than there are tanks and healers" is tired and outdated.

    Remember (forgot which xpac) Blizzard said leveling as a straight healer would be possible and running solo scenarios for rewards as a healer would be a thing?

    Why not implement a scenario for singular people without guilds, without the 20+ minutes of waiting AND then running said dungeon?

    AI has worked fine in brawlers guild, that gives rewards. It was viable in Proving Grounds, we started the fights as whatever spec we wanted...

    This is possible.
    Speaking as a Holy Priest main, play a tank or a healer. You're part of the problem. No, it's not tired and outdated, you need a tank and a healer to do five-man dungeons. There aren't enough tanks and healers as compared to the number of DPS.

  20. #280
    The problem with the solo content OP talks about is it's going to go one of two ways:
    - Players are going to demand it be just as rewarding as all the other content in the game or they're not going to want to do it.
    - If they offer rewards as competitive as other aspects of the game, it will be a focus to the detriment of group play. If players are failing, they'll blame Blizzard for the crappy AI. If they succeed, they'll expect high level rewards.


    At the end of the day, this is a MMO, not a single player game. The focus and rewards need to come from group play.

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