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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Maybe, but there is literally no reason to run a random heroic these days.
    You can get the bag at the end which comes with a decent amount of gold. Also to help friends. If you queue for tank and than go dps. You can finish the dungeons in like 5-10 minutes which means about 2-3k for 5-10 minutes. Also to get trinkets or fill in gear slots. There is vision of perfection farming as well.

    Some trinkets are so strong that even at 400 ilvl they beat 430 trinkets. A good example is font or razor coral but some classes love dungeon trinkets to a disgusting degree as well.
    Last edited by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen; 2020-04-14 at 06:57 PM.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    The "there are more DPS queuing than there are tanks and healers" is tired and outdated.
    ..

    This is possible.
    truth is never "tired and outdated"

    you could always play/spec tank yourself

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavian View Post
    Blizzard can't directly control popularity of roles.
    10,000g for your first healer or tank Q of the day
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Blizzard has had ample time to come up with a fix for this problem. The "there are more DPS queuing than there are tanks and healers" is tired and outdated.

    Remember (forgot which xpac) Blizzard said leveling as a straight healer would be possible and running solo scenarios for rewards as a healer would be a thing?

    Why not implement a scenario for singular people without guilds, without the 20+ minutes of waiting AND then running said dungeon?

    AI has worked fine in brawlers guild, that gives rewards. It was viable in Proving Grounds, we started the fights as whatever spec we wanted...

    This is possible.
    EASY answer

    Tanks = responsibility.

    Most people dont want responsibility. Thats why theres much fewer tanks+healers.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Blizzard has had ample time to come up with a fix for this problem. The "there are more DPS queuing than there are tanks and healers" is tired and outdated.

    Remember (forgot which xpac) Blizzard said leveling as a straight healer would be possible and running solo scenarios for rewards as a healer would be a thing?

    Why not implement a scenario for singular people without guilds, without the 20+ minutes of waiting AND then running said dungeon?

    AI has worked fine in brawlers guild, that gives rewards. It was viable in Proving Grounds, we started the fights as whatever spec we wanted...

    This is possible.
    They where there. They where boring. Noone did them

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Who the heck is still queuing for dungeons this late into the expansion anyway?
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    10,000g for your first healer or tank Q of the day
    That doesn't control the popularity, just manipulates the regularity of first time queuing =) They can manipulate many things of course, but manipulation doesn't absolute control.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    They where there. They where boring. Noone did them
    Make them not boring
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  9. #49
    How are people still complaining about this yet not able to understand that they're the cause of it in 2020. Bot's are not a solution, they're a bandaid on a gunshot wound. It covers up the problem, it doesn't solve it. A better solution would be to change dungeon sizes to larger group sizes. Something like 1 tank 2 heals and 7 dps. More dps get cycled through with the same number of tanks being involved. Or adding consequences to being an Ahole in dungeons. Get flagged enough, can't queue for a day or two. But replacing actual players in an mmo with bots is not the way to go. Everyone talks about how antisocial the game has become and that would just exacerbate the issue.
    I'm a thread killer.

  10. #50
    Elemental Lord Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    This is one of the reasons I want Blizzard to turn all Pure DPS classes into Hybrids.

  11. #51
    Tbh i think learning tanking for more than Mythic0 you need friends in this game (or any with the holy trinity) who tell you when you do something wrong and how to fix it.

    This is again a problem of people in MMORPGs not wanting to REALLY play with other people. Find friends and a guild and that problem is non existent. If you do not want to do this you have to live with the problems it brings.

    Long queues and potential bad players too. It is just the way it is. The only other way is dumbing down the game to a point where tank/heal/DPS does not matter.

    Your scenario idea falls short to the fact, that they will get old VERY fast and to make more than just say 10 different ones takes WAAAAYY to much ressources for a way to play the game which is simply not intended.

    Long story short: Jump over your shadow and join a guild. There are more than enough guilds where you don't have to raid or stuff like this.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavian View Post
    That doesn't control the popularity, just manipulates the regularity of first time queuing =) They can manipulate many things of course, but manipulation doesn't absolute control.
    10g for your first dungeon of the day, subsequent runs give previous runs gold*2

    10g
    20g
    40g
    80g
    160g
    320g
    640g
    1280g
    2560g
    5120g

    It'd be fun to come on mmo-champ one day and see "Where are all the dps at?" lol
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  13. #53
    Bloodsail Admiral Ryuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Blizzard has had ample time to come up with a fix for this problem. The "there are more DPS queuing than there are tanks and healers" is tired and outdated.

    Remember (forgot which xpac) Blizzard said leveling as a straight healer would be possible and running solo scenarios for rewards as a healer would be a thing?

    Why not implement a scenario for singular people without guilds, without the 20+ minutes of waiting AND then running said dungeon?

    AI has worked fine in brawlers guild, that gives rewards. It was viable in Proving Grounds, we started the fights as whatever spec we wanted...

    This is possible.
    Hey! Healer with 10 years experience, and a tank with about 4 years experience here. You may think that argument is 'tired and worn out', but it doesn't make it any less true. Why there are fewer tanks and healers than there are DPS is a kind of loaded question, and the answer varies slightly based on what content you're doing.

    Starting at the top, if you're talking about Group Finder content (Mythic Dungeons, M+, PuG raids), the easiest answer is that most tanks and healers tend to prefer queueing with DPS that they trust. The said state of the community is that there's a very wide gulf between really strong players, and those that are barely scraping by and often taking on content that is too challenging for them, and it's most evidently seen in DPS, as the nature of the role allows for people to be carried to an extent beyond their means. Honestly, when I tank or heal M+, I almost never have to post in the Group Finder, as even without a guild, I often have enough DPS friends online that I've made over the years willing to tag in.

    If we're talking leveling dungeons, I'm first, a little shocked that you'd actually be getting over 20 minute queue times. I just level a Vulpera 'Lock for the Heritage Armour, and just by picking and choosing certain expansions, I never really experienced anything beyond a 12-13 minute queue. Of course, I'm aware region and faction probably change the math somewhat. I can't really shed much light on this, as most of my healers leveled long before matchmade content was introduced. I think the general rule of friendship still applies though. When I'm planning on leveling a character solo, I tend to level them as DPS. Most often when I level a tank or healer, I'm usually with a buddy, or 2, or 4.

    For Heroics, and LFR, or in other words, Max Level matchmade content, I think the failure is more that Blizzard has failed to provide a proper reward, and it has largely made the content irrelevant. Heroic Dungeons aren't even worth looking at when you can just form a group for a Mythic(0) world tour and rack up better gear. LFR basically exists simply to allow people who refuse to participate in actual raiding to see the content once per patch, as the actual rewards tend to be outclassed by World Quest gear.

    For this Max Level content, there's also a huge level of toxicity, particularly aimed from DPS players towards healers, and (especially) tanks, and it's really just a matter of reaping what was sown for the past 8 or 9 years. It's simply not worth the mental frustration, verbal abuse, and outright hate being directed at you to have to tank for random people when you can wait 15-20 minutes, and DPS the same content in peace, and usually safe in the knowledge that the run will be faster, as most of the people directing the above bad vibes at tanks are generally very low, and too busy talking to do their own jobs.

    In short, I think it's a community created issue. Tanks and Healers have always had a more social mentality, even predating WoW, and tend to run in circles of friends rather than relying on random people. This already makes the queue in in their favour, and on top of which, DPS players (in general) have been consistently, and increasingly toxic to tanks and healers since matchmaking was added, perhaps venting frustrations that existed early on in WoW's history, when these roles were often seen as being 'in charge' of the groups. These players have continued to say that if tanks and healers don't play their way, they'll simply be replaced, and well, the DLC comic below shows the reality of the situation quite well. I know, speaking personally, I don't think I've queued for matchmade content as a tank or healer since late MoP or early WoD, unless with with at least 1 or 2 DPS friends that I know will pull their own weight, and be pleasant human beings.

    Automation is not the answer, I think both Blizzard, and the community need to come together to make and enforce matchmade content as a non-toxic environment before anything can move on.
    so Warlords of Draenor is /'woɹː.loɹːdz ʌv 'ɖɹæːn.oɹː/.
    I've always loved how in an attempt to make pronunciation through text easier to understand people have created a seemingly alien cypher for which few people without a degree related to language would ever been able to understand.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by blankfaced View Post
    How are people still complaining about this yet not able to understand that they're the cause of it in 2020. Bot's are not a solution, they're a bandaid on a gunshot wound. It covers up the problem, it doesn't solve it. A better solution would be to change dungeon sizes to larger group sizes.
    Sure, if no changes to the mobs are made No extra mechanics.

    Or adding consequences to being an Ahole in dungeons. Get flagged enough, can't queue for a day or two.
    Hopefully enough is fairly high, it would suck to Q and get put into a 9m guild run, they don't like you and flag you and now you can't Q.
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  15. #55
    Bloodsail Admiral Ryuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    10,000g for your first healer or tank Q of the day
    While not exactly what you're suggesting, the "goodie bags" added to tanking and healing when the roles were in demand back in cata were pretty damn close to the equivalent to 10,000g in BFA by the time you sold any flasks you got. Not to mention they had a chance to drop a mount from any dungeon (Raven Lord, Blue Proto-drake, etc.)

    It still only provided a small relief.
    so Warlords of Draenor is /'woɹː.loɹːdz ʌv 'ɖɹæːn.oɹː/.
    I've always loved how in an attempt to make pronunciation through text easier to understand people have created a seemingly alien cypher for which few people without a degree related to language would ever been able to understand.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    It just one part would be automated. I really only play pure dps lol... So not really an option but if they allowed me to tank as a dps that would work.
    That option isnt bad. I like it better than AI. Let dps over a certain ilvl que as tank, or something along those lines.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    This, like why the fuck would anyone care for heroic dungeon ???
    because people are ridiculous i suppose? i was leveling a mage alt a couple of weeks ago and someone actually stopped the Deadmines! run to lecture me about the superiority of arcane over fire and why should i respec (and no he wasn't being polite or helpful- he's opening was like 'LOL FIRE? wtf are you playing fire?)

    people care about EVERYTHING, why? because they have nothing better to do with their time

    -------------------------------------------


    now on a more general note: maybe the solution is to actually allow 4 dps per tank/healer in dungeons? it's hardly a secret that the majority of people have no interest in healing/tanking, why should we try to 'bribe' them into playing the game in a way they don't enjoy?

    tanks are meatshields and healers are way TOO passive, they barely interact with the enemy, it's aqcuired taste at best, or most of the time a chore that someone has to do, aka sacrifice his personal fun for the good of the group

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    That pretty much covers it. The players caused the problem. Blizzard can't really fix it.
    sure they can:
    -increase the satchel reward, if it's big enough people will queue. (can backfire though)
    -use scaling tech to scale dungeons from 4-6 people, shouldn't pose any balance issues for queueable content. (by far the easiest/cheapest i think)
    -create a proper tutorial scenario that actually reflects the real dungeon experience to practise. (expensive, but would be really nice to have)
    -use AI bots instead of players. (expensive if you have to do some custom coding for each dungeon)

    but honestly the queues aren't THAT bad most of the time.

  19. #59
    Scarab Lord AbsolutVodka's Avatar
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    I mean, you can't really fix it when the problem is rooted in the availability of roles. There's just way more DPS than Healers and Tanks and generally those two roles are seen as niche to some, only really having use in instanced settings like raids and dungeons whereas the majority of playing time is spent in the open world.

    It's not really something you can fix with technology. If there's a disproportionate number of healers and tanks queuing relative to DPS, what are you going to do? Force people to play other roles? It's just how it is. I personally only heal and dps for queues if my class has a spec for it. I've mostly exclusively played DPS but healing and tanking for thinks like heroic dungeons and lfr raids tends to be pretty cheese so being actually good at the role is a non factor.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    xmog collectors
    I do miss when pets/mounts/etc. had a chance to drop from the bag you'd get from tank/healer bonus queues (although a few times I've seen the bag reward for DPS, oddly enough). Actually got several mounts that way back in the day.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
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