Originally Posted by
Kalarm
I'm with you on this.
You know what would be cool? Make a tanking spec and make it based on using a 2hander or build it with the idea of 2H or DW like monks. Shams are the only hybrid class with no tank spec. We got a whole lot of potential for it with the underused earth element (I hate earth for enh, but for a tank spec, yeah I'd like it). Since they went away with the whole spec identity, earthwarder spec could have WF as part of it's toolset. I'd honestly really like it if they did that.
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Just a nuance, I believe the current animations were made to be easily interchangeable. Enh doesn't have unique animations, all specs use the same bank of moves now. Some moves are even the same between 2H and 1H. Death strike for example use the same exact animation that you are in 2H or 1H. 2H users also use some moves that have the weapon only in 1 hand. They made it this way to be easier to maintain. it's why things like stormstrike now simply change the weapon's color and transparency and have some particles effects on them. They made weapon animations streamlined exactly so they can easily played with.
There is a 2H animation similar to lava lash (spin with the weapon in 1 Hand from behind), boulderfist animations uses the MH and can be kept intact, some 2H classes already uses it. SS has a choice of several 2H moves and I just saw that SS first strike is called "execute". Which I went to check on and arms warriors do use the same animation when executing. It does feel like it was thought out a bit more for DW tho. I'd rather they use the big jump 2H attack for the first strike but it might become a bit redundant, although SS has the particularity of using a different animations when used in succession.
As far as animation goes, thats the part I am the least worried about. They did a good job with the weapon animation and this is IMO a moment where that work would pay off.
My problem with 2H enh really lies with the fact that we are a chaotic class with procs that can proc other stuff which then proc back your first proc. Your DMG can be very different 1 minute to the next. I would be afraid that changing enh's mechanic to work in a PPM fashion would make the spec feel a lot different. Then again, maybe all enh would need would be to make it so that when you use 2H, wind comes to your aid and make you attack faster and then all blizz need to do is to increase the proc chance of WF, SB and MSW to be increased by X% to equalize.
I just did some testing on the PTR (since I quit BFA after 3 months), I don't have any worthwhile 2Handers other then... a 340 staff... and using 2 ilvl 20 1Handers VS a 2Hander and everything hit for more or less the same thing up to a difference of 10-15 dmg. That means that with minimum AP impact from the weapon, both spec would have every ability deal very similar DMG. How different would that DMG be with proper 2Hander, I can't really tell. My doomhammer (233) SS dmg was 11 825 while with the staff (340) it was 11 875. Lower ilvl but very similar DMG so there is probably some formula they use to calculate AP when in 2H vs DW. Weapon swing dmg is of course totally ignored as the weapon DMG of the staff is 2.5 times that of doomhammer. Which is expected since as I said earlier, all abilities use % of attack power now and do not use the weapon swing DMG.
And yes, currently, if you equip a 2Hander, WF does proc. FT attacks do happen and they all deal almost the same DMG.
I wish I was a dev at blizz so I could just lift off the the restrictions on SS and LL, pop myself a 2H axe that has agility (which is a non-issue considering we have personal loot now. The only pitfall would be what if you want nothing to do with 2Handers and a boss drop a 2H axe AND a 1H axe... Which is kinda a problem SMF fury and frost will have so perhaps they already got something in mind) and test out how it works.
Flametongue DMG would also be a problem. The problem is that it will always deal the same DMG. If you increase the DMG it does, it also means it will deal more DMG overall because of SS and LL. It would need some weird calculations like if attack is auto -> DMG = base DMG times * whatever speed modifier Else -> DMG = base DMG.
Crash lightning is non issue as it procs on LL and SS which would stay the same.
A very easy and simple solution I could see for blizz to do this would be to make it so that when you use a 2hander, your attack speed is increased to give the same number of attacks per minute but lower the auto-attack DMG of it to be equal to if that weapon was a 1Hander. Which would probably look funky TBH lol. Also, 2Handers needs to be able to have 2 imbues.
Overall, I'm not totally closed to the idea. I think they should study it and see how much work it would take. I saw the frost DK's actually have different calculations for frost strike and obliterate depending on if using 1Hander or 2Hander. I know that back in the days the priority was different, if anyone has beta or knows, is that formula different because AP is different from using a big 2Hander VS 1 hander or is it because they will keep the the difference like back in the days where DW would use KM on frost strikes while 2H uses them on obliterate?
Anyways, there is a lot to take into account in the case of enh 2H. I don't think it's impossible. Nothing is impossible. I just think the class is not designed with that in mind and the way it has been makes it really hard to balance. You not only have to change dmg coefficient but chances to proc stuff. Out spec is procs on procs as I said earlier. Moving to PPM would probably hurt the feel of the class. There is just... a lot to think about. I'm down for them trying it, specially since were not getting a new class but... I don't want that time to hurt time spent on our spec and others.
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Ah, so I didn't check the video much but it shows everything dealing the same DMG? Well see, yes that means their dmg formulas using attack power instead of weapon swing works. It also means that right now, frost will always have the same gameplay while it used to be different between 2H and DW. 2H focused on obliterate, DW on FS. I'm intrigued as to if there will be a difference in DMG in the end as DW uses 2 runes instead of 1.
But see, this doesn't fix enh's problems. Frost is a straighforward spec. You auto-attack, you crit, you get KM procs which are set on as PPM. You will always have the same amount of auto-attacks in 1 minute, so the proc chance depending on weapon attack speed is easy to calculate. Your obliterates are controlled by your runes which always generate at the same speed. You OB have a chance to proc rime which again, you will be able to use OB at the same rate that you DW or use a 2H. Frost was thought for this. It was harder to balance in the past because the gameplay was slightly different but now if they settle for only 1 gameplay, it becomes much simplier.
Enh doesn't have that luxury. We have procs that depend on our weapon swings, weapon swings and abilities proc more stuff. Those stuff proc other stuff, etc etc. Stop trying to compare enh to frost, monks or SMF. Those were all built around the choice and use of ressources. Enh was built around randomness and chaos. I'm all down for them to try and test it, but the fact that the 2H people are hellbent on using examples that have nothing to do with enh's challenges turns me off completely. Hell, I explained that WF would deal the same dmg that you DW or use a 2hander earlier in the thread and now it's being used as an argument as to why 2H should work. Abilities doing the same DMG does not change the fact our problems lie with our numerous procs and passive DMG from all attacks and not with tuning each abilities DMG. All procs chances need to be studied. Flametongue weapon DMG needs to be individually looked at to stay the same between having much less weapon swings but the same amount of SS and LL. WF procs needs to be tuned to happen around the same amount of times. Everything needs to be looked at.
The one thing I could see is them having more complicated formulas. Like WF could be turned into a PPM (or higher proc chance) only for 2Handers auto-attacks. SS would retain 20% chance. Same for SB and MSW. Same proc chance on abilities but different on AA. But then you also need a special case for when you get a WF proc out of a SS. It needs to be able to say that a WF proc coming from SS has the same chance to proc MSW and SB then DW.
There is a lot to think about. It's not so easy to do for enh.