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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholaes92 View Post
    Lol what does this even mean, you do understand gcds are a thing right
    Some people don't want GCDs on a button that does nothing.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    How often did fury warriors swap out of zerker stance in PVE? Preeeeety much never, unless something went wrong and they had to sword/board/taunt, which was all done with a macro, and rarely actually saved the day anyways. How often did Prot warriors? Only to catch fears when you were out of wards or totems, which was done with a macro. Essentially, you react to situations with pre-built macros. People keep saying you have to preemptively swap stances, but you almost never actually do, you simply react to things that happen or are happening and you know due to timers, and you use macros that basically let you ignore the extra stance inputs and just be like any other class.
    My point is that if using the skills activated the right stance people wouldn't need macros to do so. If you are talking about classic I don't think warrior is that great as a class, but DW tanking meta is quite interesting, but obviously wouldn't work in a new game.

  3. #123
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    My point is that if using the skills activated the right stance people wouldn't need macros to do so. If you are talking about classic I don't think warrior is that great as a class, but DW tanking meta is quite interesting, but obviously wouldn't work in a new game.
    People use macros to do so though. The fact that macros exist make Stance Dancing a joke because you don't even need extra inputs, you just press a button to use the skill and the macro swaps for you. It's basically the same as other classes at that point, but very very niche situations exist that hardly matter so everyone thinks Stance Dancing properly makes you a god or something.

    As far as warriors in Classic not being that great, they are single the defacto Tank and the strongest DPS class. They literally dominate both roles they can do. That makes them the literal best. They're also incredibly strong in PVP, one of the best.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Quick question about how you want it implemented:
    - stance change on the gcd
    or
    - macro [stance:?] into all your abilities and forget about the dance?
    This is what is most relevant and what most proponents fail to consider or even respond to whenever they bring it up.

    Either it feels clunky or it's a needless hassle to content with for both old and new to the game.
    Needless to say it also creates a huge variety in the warriors you encounter as you'll either steamroll them or get steamrolled - neither of which are as fun as just going up against an evenly matched challenger.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    Some people don't want GCDs on a button that does nothing.
    It doesn’t do nothing. Just because you can’t grasp what it does and how important it is doesn’t mean it does nothing. You’re the type of player would thought hibernate or turn undead were useless abilities in pvp as well huh

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    You also seem to have misunderstood what I mean. Taking slightly longer to learn doesn't make something difficult. There are easy things to learn that take plenty of time.
    Think about n'zoth mythic. If you grind enough tries on it you will kill it, but I wouldn't say it is easy. Difficulty is really subjective and no I don't think stances were too hard - it was just different mechanic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    The class is mechanically as easy to execute as any other class, doesn't matter if you spend an extra week or so learning situations compared to some other classes. Stances are almost a non-factor, and when they are, it's basically the same as hitting a defensive button for other classes, because macros.
    The problem is that you are comparing warriors to other classes. That's entirely different problem. Game is just bad if everything feels the same and in this case removing the flavor probably won't help either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    As far as warriors in Classic not being that great, they are single the defacto Tank and the strongest DPS class. They literally dominate both roles they can do. That makes them the literal best. They're also incredibly strong in PVP, one of the best.
    I guess if you only care about being OP then it's great. I'm strictly talking about mechanics.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholaes92 View Post
    It doesn’t do nothing. Just because you can’t grasp what it does and how important it is doesn’t mean it does nothing. You’re the type of player would thought hibernate or turn undead were useless abilities in pvp as well huh
    There's nothing to grasp. Stances don't do anything. A minuscule change in the damage you deal or take is nothing. Hibernate and Turn Undead are useful crowd controls abilities, if only rarely. Swapping stances lets you ACCESS abilities that are cool and useful. Stances themselves are neither cool nor useful. Better to cut out the middleman and just let people use their cool and useful abilities without the meaningless in-between step of stance swapping.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    There's nothing to grasp. Stances don't do anything.
    Are you the asshole who always died behind the pillar in zerker against RMP? Man I hated those warriors. Just because you wanted to whirlwind the full hp disc.

    edit: this made me realize that mby it's good that they changed stances. I legit got mad thinking about this.
    Last edited by dzd; 2020-04-19 at 02:47 AM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    There's nothing to grasp. Stances don't do anything. A minuscule change in the damage you deal or take is nothing. Hibernate and Turn Undead are useful crowd controls abilities, if only rarely. Swapping stances lets you ACCESS abilities that are cool and useful. Stances themselves are neither cool nor useful. Better to cut out the middleman and just let people use their cool and useful abilities without the meaningless in-between step of stance swapping.
    You reek of 1400 rating warrior my dude. I mean you couldn’t make it anymore clear lol

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    Sure, but mby they should add weapon switching back in? I don't like the idea but haven't put too much thought on it, because I don't think it will ever happen. Maybe it could be something they should look into and if they made it fun it could be something.

    The core idea is that you have to be in right stance or in other words, you get punished for being in the wrong stance when you want to use a skill. Obvious examples would be if you get feared and you are not in zerker or in arena you get stunned behind the pillar in zerker. In PvE you mostly lose rage when you make mistake, so that's probably why people find it annoying. The stances used to be more important in PvP.

    This is really not part of the topic but this is one of the things I have been hating for a long time. I wanna be in control what my abilities do. If I wanna do ST damage I should be able to do ST only damage without losing 90% of my damage.
    The only way weapon switch could be fun is by having more item slot like they've done with the Diablo 4 Barbarian (he has 3 weapon slot. 1 for a two handed, and two for 1 handed / shield). In that way, the weapon switch could be linked to stances (defensive stance have the equiped weapon + shield automatically switched on). The problem here is that warrior would have to farm more items (which two of them are tank items) and you would have to make it worth one way or another.

    And it's the main issue with the community. If something is more complex / has deeper mechanics, a player should be somehow rewarded to play this harder gamestyle by having more power / more versatility. But in situations where players are at a really high level of skill, this kind of design is problematic because everyone can end up mastering the class which will be more powerful than any other because of the base complexity of the class. It's something Classic showed because the today's mentality is about having the most optimized group. That's why you see one ret pal for 30 fury warriors in Classic PvE

    I understand the point for PvP tho and I didn't thought about it because I mostly don't do pvp anymore. I agree for that, it pushes the skillcap and asks for anticipation and it is a valid reason for a stance return. But it should not impact the main rotation then because it would have a bad impact on PvE since you force more buttons into the rotation.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    Are you the asshole who always died behind the pillar in zerker against RMP? Man I hated those warriors. Just because you wanted to whirlwind the full hp disc.

    edit: this made me realize that mby it's good that they changed stances. I legit got mad thinking about this.
    And in one moment, enlightenment falls upon you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholaes92 View Post
    You reek of 1400 rating warrior my dude. I mean you couldn’t make it anymore clear lol
    I play a Death Knight and have since Wrath. Stances are still meaningless buttons, just like Presences.

  12. #132
    I mean bring back stances in terms of passive buffs like WOD for example.

    Stance dancing i'm neutral about, it's clunky and the rage lose between each stance was cancer.

    But it's what made warriors unique and it distinguished the pro warriors from the noobs.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2020-04-19 at 03:00 AM.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    And in one moment, enlightenment falls upon you.



    I play a Death Knight and have since Wrath. Stances are still meaningless buttons, just like Presences.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...s-player/arena

    Highest rating 1550. Yeah bud I’m sorry but you’re just bad. Please sit down and let people who understand how the works/worked talk ok honey?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    I mean bring back stances in terms of passive buffs.

    Stance dancing i'm neutral about, it's clunky and the rage lose between each stance was cancer.

    But it's what made warriors unique and it distinguished the pro warriors from the noobs.
    Passive buff stances are the most meaningless version of stances. You pick your one stance and you never change it. You might as well just build the buff into the class. Which is, you know, exactly what they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholaes92 View Post
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...s-player/arena

    Highest rating 1550. Yeah bud I’m sorry but you’re just bad. Please sit down and let people who understand how the works/worked talk ok honey?
    Ah, personal attacks. The last refuge of a losing argument.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    Passive buff stances are the most meaningless version of stances. You pick your one stance and you never change it. You might as well just build the buff into the class. Which is, you know, exactly what they did.



    Ah, personal attacks. The last refuge of a losing argument.
    Losing an argument? My dude you don’t even know what room the argument is in. This is like a middle schooler walking into a presidential debate talking about how you think we should spend money on amusement parks.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Isiolia View Post
    It's something Classic showed because the today's mentality is about having the most optimized group. That's why you see one ret pal for 30 fury warriors in Classic PvE
    I don't think this is necessarily true. I think rets are a bit bad example because they are just really horrible in PvE. Classic raid design is just that if you are "hybrid" then you actually are healer/"support". That is just how the game is meant to be. I think warlocks would be better example and I don't think many normal guilds actively avoid warlocks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    And in one moment, enlightenment falls upon you.
    Check out dictionary for sarcasm. There has to be room for mistakes in PvP.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    Check out dictionary for sarcasm. There has to be room for mistakes in PvP.
    There's plenty of room for mistakes without including bad game mechanics.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    There's plenty of room for mistakes without including bad game mechanics.
    Not even remotely close to the old style of the game. Not even close.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    There's plenty of room for mistakes without including bad game mechanics.
    Calling something bad after they explain why it's good for the game is definitely great way to argue

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    Calling something bad after they explain why it's good for the game is definitely great way to argue
    No one has bothered to explain why stances are good for the game. You can't, because they aren't. You only want them because they were what you had in the past, but the game is better off without them.

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