Bring back "stance dance" to Shadowlands, Blizzard – please

[Tiwack]

Quick question about how you want it implemented:
- stance change on the gcd
or
- macro [stance:?] into all your abilities and forget about the dance?

This is what is most relevant and what most proponents fail to consider or even respond to whenever they bring it up.

Either it feels clunky or it's a needless hassle to content with for both old and new to the game.
Needless to say it also creates a huge variety in the warriors you encounter as you'll either steamroll them or get steamrolled - neither of which are as fun as just going up against an evenly matched challenger.

[Nicholaes92]

Some people don't want GCDs on a button that does nothing.

It doesn’t do nothing. Just because you can’t grasp what it does and how important it is doesn’t mean it does nothing. You’re the type of player would thought hibernate or turn undead were useless abilities in pvp as well huh

[dzd]

You also seem to have misunderstood what I mean. Taking slightly longer to learn doesn't make something difficult. There are easy things to learn that take plenty of time.

Think about n'zoth mythic. If you grind enough tries on it you will kill it, but I wouldn't say it is easy. Difficulty is really subjective and no I don't think stances were too hard - it was just different mechanic.

The class is mechanically as easy to execute as any other class, doesn't matter if you spend an extra week or so learning situations compared to some other classes. Stances are almost a non-factor, and when they are, it's basically the same as hitting a defensive button for other classes, because macros.

The problem is that you are comparing warriors to other classes. That's entirely different problem. Game is just bad if everything feels the same and in this case removing the flavor probably won't help either.

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As far as warriors in Classic not being that great, they are single the defacto Tank and the strongest DPS class. They literally dominate both roles they can do. That makes them the literal best. They're also incredibly strong in PVP, one of the best.

I guess if you only care about being OP then it's great. I'm strictly talking about mechanics.

[Arkthugal]

It doesn’t do nothing. Just because you can’t grasp what it does and how important it is doesn’t mean it does nothing. You’re the type of player would thought hibernate or turn undead were useless abilities in pvp as well huh

There's nothing to grasp. Stances don't do anything. A minuscule change in the damage you deal or take is nothing. Hibernate and Turn Undead are useful crowd controls abilities, if only rarely. Swapping stances lets you ACCESS abilities that are cool and useful. Stances themselves are neither cool nor useful. Better to cut out the middleman and just let people use their cool and useful abilities without the meaningless in-between step of stance swapping.

[dzd]

There's nothing to grasp. Stances don't do anything.

Are you the asshole who always died behind the pillar in zerker against RMP? Man I hated those warriors. Just because you wanted to whirlwind the full hp disc.

edit: this made me realize that mby it's good that they changed stances. I legit got mad thinking about this.

[Nicholaes92]

There's nothing to grasp. Stances don't do anything. A minuscule change in the damage you deal or take is nothing. Hibernate and Turn Undead are useful crowd controls abilities, if only rarely. Swapping stances lets you ACCESS abilities that are cool and useful. Stances themselves are neither cool nor useful. Better to cut out the middleman and just let people use their cool and useful abilities without the meaningless in-between step of stance swapping.

You reek of 1400 rating warrior my dude. I mean you couldn’t make it anymore clear lol

[Holdodlig]

Sure, but mby they should add weapon switching back in? I don't like the idea but haven't put too much thought on it, because I don't think it will ever happen. Maybe it could be something they should look into and if they made it fun it could be something.

The core idea is that you have to be in right stance or in other words, you get punished for being in the wrong stance when you want to use a skill. Obvious examples would be if you get feared and you are not in zerker or in arena you get stunned behind the pillar in zerker. In PvE you mostly lose rage when you make mistake, so that's probably why people find it annoying. The stances used to be more important in PvP.

This is really not part of the topic but this is one of the things I have been hating for a long time. I wanna be in control what my abilities do. If I wanna do ST damage I should be able to do ST only damage without losing 90% of my damage.

The only way weapon switch could be fun is by having more item slot like they've done with the Diablo 4 Barbarian (he has 3 weapon slot. 1 for a two handed, and two for 1 handed / shield). In that way, the weapon switch could be linked to stances (defensive stance have the equiped weapon + shield automatically switched on). The problem here is that warrior would have to farm more items (which two of them are tank items) and you would have to make it worth one way or another.

And it's the main issue with the community. If something is more complex / has deeper mechanics, a player should be somehow rewarded to play this harder gamestyle by having more power / more versatility. But in situations where players are at a really high level of skill, this kind of design is problematic because everyone can end up mastering the class which will be more powerful than any other because of the base complexity of the class. It's something Classic showed because the today's mentality is about having the most optimized group. That's why you see one ret pal for 30 fury warriors in Classic PvE

I understand the point for PvP tho and I didn't thought about it because I mostly don't do pvp anymore. I agree for that, it pushes the skillcap and asks for anticipation and it is a valid reason for a stance return. But it should not impact the main rotation then because it would have a bad impact on PvE since you force more buttons into the rotation.

[Arkthugal]

Are you the asshole who always died behind the pillar in zerker against RMP? Man I hated those warriors. Just because you wanted to whirlwind the full hp disc.

edit: this made me realize that mby it's good that they changed stances. I legit got mad thinking about this.

And in one moment, enlightenment falls upon you.

You reek of 1400 rating warrior my dude. I mean you couldn’t make it anymore clear lol

I play a Death Knight and have since Wrath. Stances are still meaningless buttons, just like Presences.

[Beefkow]

I mean bring back stances in terms of passive buffs like WOD for example.

Stance dancing i'm neutral about, it's clunky and the rage lose between each stance was cancer.

But it's what made warriors unique and it distinguished the pro warriors from the noobs.

[Nicholaes92]

And in one moment, enlightenment falls upon you.



I play a Death Knight and have since Wrath. Stances are still meaningless buttons, just like Presences.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...s-player/arena

Highest rating 1550. Yeah bud I’m sorry but you’re just bad. Please sit down and let people who understand how the works/worked talk ok honey?

[Arkthugal]

I mean bring back stances in terms of passive buffs.

Stance dancing i'm neutral about, it's clunky and the rage lose between each stance was cancer.

But it's what made warriors unique and it distinguished the pro warriors from the noobs.

Passive buff stances are the most meaningless version of stances. You pick your one stance and you never change it. You might as well just build the buff into the class. Which is, you know, exactly what they did.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...s-player/arena

Highest rating 1550. Yeah bud I’m sorry but you’re just bad. Please sit down and let people who understand how the works/worked talk ok honey?

Ah, personal attacks. The last refuge of a losing argument.

[Nicholaes92]

Passive buff stances are the most meaningless version of stances. You pick your one stance and you never change it. You might as well just build the buff into the class. Which is, you know, exactly what they did.



Ah, personal attacks. The last refuge of a losing argument.

Losing an argument? My dude you don’t even know what room the argument is in. This is like a middle schooler walking into a presidential debate talking about how you think we should spend money on amusement parks.

[dzd]

It's something Classic showed because the today's mentality is about having the most optimized group. That's why you see one ret pal for 30 fury warriors in Classic PvE

I don't think this is necessarily true. I think rets are a bit bad example because they are just really horrible in PvE. Classic raid design is just that if you are "hybrid" then you actually are healer/"support". That is just how the game is meant to be. I think warlocks would be better example and I don't think many normal guilds actively avoid warlocks.

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And in one moment, enlightenment falls upon you.

Check out dictionary for sarcasm. There has to be room for mistakes in PvP.

[Arkthugal]

Check out dictionary for sarcasm. There has to be room for mistakes in PvP.

There's plenty of room for mistakes without including bad game mechanics.

[Nicholaes92]

There's plenty of room for mistakes without including bad game mechanics.

Not even remotely close to the old style of the game. Not even close.

[dzd]

There's plenty of room for mistakes without including bad game mechanics.

Calling something bad after they explain why it's good for the game is definitely great way to argue

[Arkthugal]

Calling something bad after they explain why it's good for the game is definitely great way to argue

No one has bothered to explain why stances are good for the game. You can't, because they aren't. You only want them because they were what you had in the past, but the game is better off without them.

[Nicholaes92]

No one has bothered to explain why stances are good for the game. You can't, because they aren't. You only want them because they were what you had in the past, but the game is better off without them.

Do I really need to quote something I posted to you specifically again?

[Mirishka]

You mean new warriors. Stance dancing was fun as shit back in the day that’s what separates good warriors from bad

I've played warrior since vanilla, was regarded as one of the very best tanks on my original server until I transferred in early Wrath - and I don't like stance dancing and do not want to see it come back. You seem to be struggling with this, but there is a difference between being good at something and enjoying something.

The two don't always go hand in hand.

[dzd]

No one has bothered to explain why stances are good for the game.

It's actually the exact opposite: I explained why they are good but you never told me why they are bad. It's funny because I know many reasons why they are not perfect but I think the good things outweight the bad ones. Even funnier is the fact that I don't think they should reimplement them as they were, but I do think warriors need some kind of rework to make them more interesting.