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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    They had to do something to change AoE. For multiple expansions now it has been whoever has the best AoE wins. M+ just made it even more crazy.
    But this isn't changing that since some abilities are untouched. This is just shifting who will be the most powerful AOE, which is just going to shift m+ meta to be those classes instead. They need to be looking at more clever ways to encourage group diversity, not just shifting the meta around. Make bosses an equal part, as far as clear time goes (as in if you spend 5 minutes on trash and 10 minutes on bosses with the best AOE, you spend 10 minutes on trash and 5 minutes on bosses with the best ST). If they insist on niche design, then make it so every niche exists in every dungeon in equal parts, since time is all that matters in a clear.

  2. #42
    I'm fine with it. People are taking certain classes, ignoring others, simply because of their massive AoE output. A cap will give Blizz more of an idea of balancing [lol] around such AoE outputs.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    In an ideal world, all classes should be equal in all situations. Only the mechanics of how they accomplish said tasks should be different.

    Think of 3 cars, one FWD, one AWD, one RWD. They should all be able to lap the track in the same time, but they obviously all handle and feel differently and all require slightly different skillsets to extract that performance. Not necessarily "better" skillsets to get the same performance, just "different."
    yes but we live in real world, where each class should be best in different things, not one best in pretty much everything by large margin as it is case now...
    making difference between AOE and cleave is step towards that

  4. #44
    I like it /10char

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    They want specs whose strength is AoE to actually have that as a strength instead of being out-shined by a spec that has great single target and great aoe. Same with cleave specs and multi dotters.
    I'm actually concerned about where this change will leave WW to be honest.

    The spec is only good for AoE right now since it's ST damage has been laughably bad all expansion long. Does this mean the spec will just be a meme dead spec in SL? Hopefully not, but based on past experience the odds of it happening are substantially higher than it not

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    They had to do something to change AoE. For multiple expansions now it has been whoever has the best AoE wins. M+ just made it even more crazy.
    Pretty much this. Uncapped AOE is just bad design. Mindlessly spamming that 1 aoe button has never been the hallmark of skill. All this led to is meter padding to the max and aoe'ing when you really shouldn't.

  7. #47
    I thank god every day for that change. While the affected classes still will be strong in aoe maybe now some classes who perform subpar will be taken into instances more.My "great" support abilities are completely negated by rogues/DHs/DKs/warriors completely negating the need for any of it by obliterating huge groups at once.

    There is simply NO reason whatsoever to take any of those classes with you in mythic+.
    And yes i run enough because i have a guild but i cannot ever get into a PUG unless is spec into heal.

  8. #48
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    or maybe its a return to the good ol days people keep mentioning when ''gaim waz gud''?like in aq when many aoe abilities had caps and trash was huge and respawned,they rly need to bring back respawning trash! the game had its biggest growth when this existed!!! cant you seee.its ALL conected!!! aoe cap will save wow! bring back 12 mil subs ezy!
    (yes its sarcasm)
    See but they raise a valid concern.



    This change in the context of M+ is very very good, but very concerning as far as the overworld is concerned. If we get BFA/Legion styled zone design it'll be very cancer very quickly.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I thank god every day for that change. While the affected classes still will be strong in aoe maybe now some classes who perform subpar will be taken into instances more.My "great" support abilities are completely negated by rogues/DHs/DKs/warriors completely negating the need for any of it by obliterating huge groups at once.

    There is simply NO reason whatsoever to take any of those classes with you in mythic+.
    And yes i run enough because i have a guild but i cannot ever get into a PUG unless is spec into heal.

    This. A 5 target limit isn't a bad number for m+ pulls, but the occasional mega pull strat will be rewarded by having a caster or two, where currently outside fire mages they have nothing to really offer.

    On a broader scale, blizz's declaration of trying to make extra mobs something that makes you consider risk is one i can appreciate. The outdoors are far too trivial since Legion. Time will tell how it shakes out but it's a worthwhile goal to experiment with and I'm willing to see it bear fruits.

  10. #50
    I think it's fine, I'm not into big aoe pulls anyway. I think we need less mobs numerically in favor of stronger mobs that present more of a challenge and require CC (quality over quantity etc).

    the problem with the game to me is it's lacking strategy, even in raiding/m+ there's no strategy it's just strictly studying and following pre-defined mechanics with no real thought of your own.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Just because your tank cant pull more than 5 mobs in keys, doesnt mean others cant. I regularly pull multiple packs in 15s or higher that I want to time.
    A lot of this boils down to how their greater rift style lazy % scaling modifier works they can’t put out any serious unavoidable damage to challenge the healers.

    So you can pull multiple packs and AoE Stun/kite and burn them all.

    The risk vs reward ratio on large pulls is way off.

  12. #52
    I like it. It's an additional tweak they can use to adjust strengths and weaknesses of certain abilities. Tune down outliers by limiting the amount of targets etc.
    It's, overall, a good change.

  13. #53
    I think it will suck in the short term, but be good in the long run. Changing the group em up and aoe em down mentality allows for more diverse groups to form.

  14. #54
    It will make epic bgs a little less garbage.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Sigh. Because all the existing AoE is doing a wonderful job increasing subs, right? Or do you think negative growth is actually a good thing?

    The reality is that there are much better games out there if you want to do mindless grinding and have big numbers pop up on your screen so you pat yourself on the back for how elite you are.

    WoW was at its peak when everything wasn't trivial. When you had to make some decisions such as cc, kill order, threat, etc, etc, etc. WoW Retail is hovering somewhere between 1 million and 1.5 million subs anymore...or about 1/10th of its peak. People can try to claim how Retail is so awesome, but the reality of the numbers puts that lie to bed quite firmly.
    Thank you

    I'm glad this is happening, the grab-then-AE-without-any-afterthought is really boring. They really need to make AE and cleave different again.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by rhrrngt View Post
    I'm for it, Area based and dot based have no limits while the burst aoe has a limit. Seems reasonable.
    Ion stated that the main reason for the change was that he wanted 'round everything up and AOE it down' to not be the only viable choice in dungeons (or at least, the most attractive choice). While that's fair, and while at first the change will be successful in somewhat modifying the behavior of groups running dungeons, I am concerned that later in the expansion mythic+ runs will favor those classes least impacted by the change.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    where each class should be best in different things
    Isn't this the same as saying "in an ideal world"? What you're saying is you like niche design. Which also says you like team stacking... which is exactly what is happening right now....

    making difference between AOE and cleave is step towards that
    No.. see why above.

  18. #58
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    I'm mostly alright with this but its going to be annoying in transmog runs where it doesn't hurt anything to AOE 50+ mobs down.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  19. #59
    In the end it will all end up the same. The whole thing will be gamed in some fashion and those with more higher capped AOE items will be wanted and those with less will be ditched. Then the perfect pull number will come up so 2 packs instead of 3? Ok.. same old thing though.. pull that and use your reduced AOE numbers like crazy again. GG.

  20. #60
    Elemental Lord Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    It's not the area of effect spells that are getting changed. It is cleaving abilities. For example it is stupid to think that Multishot from Hunters can hit everything. How many arrows do you think is possible to shoot at the same time from the same bow? That is why it only has a limit of 5, compared to shooting quickly with Barrage having a limit of 8. If you then compare it to Volley, it would have no limit since it rains arrow in an area. Though haven't played retail for a while so can't even remember if Volley exist there atm.

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