Greater Pyro on a 15 sec CD on the last alpha

[Schmilblick]

The best change of the expac yet, at long last. People can now enjoy PvP again.

[Big Thanks]

To all people saying Pyro was not a problem
I must say this

"Told you so"

feels good

[Yayeet]

Should have happened in legion.

[Nnyco]

Im only suprised it took that long.

[Schattenlied]

The best change of the expac yet, at long last. People can now enjoy PvP again.

I mean, it's a good change, but it's just one thing on a long list of shit that makes PvP trash right now.

[keldarepewpew]

So dh removed from pvp when?

[Luxeley]

When you bundle this change with other Mage changes, not so great for Fire Mages in pvp, great for everyone. Amazing how no one notices the real menace in pvp - Demon Hunters, they're 5xs more OP than Gpyro.

[Atrieus]

Cant wait for them to add Greater Eye Beam into the game instead

[Mozu]

The best change of the expac yet, at long last. People can now enjoy PvP again.

I enjoy fast-paced arena most and rogue mage is definitely that, though I wish there was more than *just* rogue/mage for sure.

Dampening lock/sham metas are infinitely worse, imo.

Anyway, gpy change is a good change.

[AlmightyGerkin]

[docterfreeze]

Should just be removed, fire already has access to pyroclasm to fill the "big pyroblast" niche. At least this stops fire mages from standing 50 yards away and spamming it.

[Schmilblick]

Ah yes, god I miss that guy.

[f4ncybear]

So dh removed from pvp when?

In your dreams

Mortal Rush Your Fel Rush afflicts targets it deals damage to with Mortal Wound, reducing the effectiveness of healing on the target for until cancelled.

[Big Thanks]

In your dreams

That....is actually bad news for a Demon Hunter...

Not sure if im being paranoid...but im getting the feeling:
"There is no way they will give us mortal strike without reducing our damage in some way"

There is simply no way, IMO

edit: not sure if ill play my DH though. I still dont know who will be my main char.

[Nervyz]

That....is actually bad news for a Demon Hunter...

Not sure if im being paranoid...but im getting the feeling:
"There is no way they will give us mortal strike without reducing our damage in some way"

There is simply no way, IMO

edit: not sure if ill play my DH though. I still dont know who will be my main char.

You want DH to have MS on top of everything else they already bring? Sounds like a great idea.....
If anything, the entire class should be deleted or atleast nerfed into the ground.

[Big Thanks]

You want DH to have MS on top of everything else they already bring? Sounds like a great idea.....
If anything, the entire class should be deleted or atleast nerfed into the ground.

I never asked for it...but it seems to be happening in shadowlands...for some reason.
And because im paranoid...is probably because we are doing less damage now

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Just in.
This is priceless

[trapmaster]

So... like... switch different mage spec or reroll a class. Good riddance how greater pyro blast is stupid op with large team.

[Biomega]

Aw man, how the hell am I supposed to PvP if I have to press more than 1 button?

[Tyrannica]

When you bundle this change with other Mage changes, not so great for Fire Mages in pvp, great for everyone. Amazing how no one notices the real menace in pvp - Demon Hunters, they're 5xs more OP than Gpyro.

Really?

I killed 2 dhs + 1 ww monk alone 3x times in a row and no rest with my demon hunter(all dh havoc) without any support in pvp isles. I had slightly better gear, but they were not under geared, were around 450+.

Last night in uldum I faced a DH and an arcane mage, both had gear, and guess who managed to do way more dmg and burst in a short amount of time with little effort?

Later during the night a challenger DH, with 12/12 mythic Nyalotha raid clear, who might have pretty much the same gear as me(checked arsenal) brought my DH in a surprise attack while I was doing a quest down to 1/3 my hp, that was some nice "pve dragons layer" burst, but he also died, due to mismanagement of his cds and probably less experience in mirror matches.

So the bottom line is as always, either you are good, or not, not even a BiS geared DH or multiple DHs can change that fact, it only comes down to your own experience, who will prevail and who will be dust.

Or how do you explain those outcomes of dh mirror matches? Believe it or not even with just a few buttons to push, there is still a lot of room for missplay, like if you don't time your cds correctly and just blow them out, with no awareness what's happening around you whatsoever.

If, something is op right now its corruption or Burst trinket, but hardly a class, an argument could be made about certain heal specs and assassin rogues and destro locks, but I would rather say, most classes are just too weak, look at their huge nerf paragraphs? In MoP and WoD many more classes and specs were strong and viable. Legion was not real with the templates, BfA is legion design without templates, unnerfed burst trinkets and shallow class design with huge pruning and nerfs to various classes, who knows what class you play, if you complain about DHs, couldn't be the top dogs of BfA.

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

Really?

I killed 2 dhs + 1 ww monk alone 3x times in a row and no rest with my demon hunter(all dh havoc) without any support in pvp isles. I had slightly better gear, but they were not under geared, were around 450+.

Last night in uldum I faced a DH and an arcane mage, both had gear, and guess who managed to do way more dmg and burst in a short amount of time with little effort?

Later during the night a challenger DH, with 12/12 mythic Nyalotha raid clear, who might have pretty much the same gear as me(checked arsenal) brought my DH in a surprise attack while I was doing a quest down to 1/3 my hp, that was some nice "pve dragons layer" burst, but he also died, due to mismanagement of his cds and probably less experience in mirror matches.

So the bottom line is as always, either you are good, or not, not even a BiS geared DH or multiple DHs can change that fact, it only comes down to your own experience, who will prevail and who will be dust.

Or how do you explain those outcomes of dh mirror matches? Believe it or not even with just a few buttons to push, there is still a lot of room for missplay, like if you don't time your cds correctly and just blow them out, with no awareness what's happening around you whatsoever.

If, something is op right now its corruption or Burst trinket, but hardly a class, an argument could be made about certain heal specs and assassin rogues and destro locks, but I would rather say, most classes are just too weak, look at their huge nerf paragraphs? In MoP and WoD many more classes and specs were strong and viable. Legion was not real with the templates, BfA is legion design without templates, unnerfed burst trinkets and shallow class design with huge pruning and nerfs to various classes, who knows what class you play, if you complain about DHs, couldn't be the top dogs of BfA.

You can't use the small open world interactions you had to justify game balance. The interactions you had while questing, or that one time you killed 2 DH at once and that one fire mage did that much damage..... It's so irrelevant.

That's not how the game is balance in PvP. PvP is balanced around 3v3 arenas. It's not balanced on World PvP, or duels or world fight you encounter that have so many changing factors that they are just irrelevant to the game as a whole. I'm sorry to say, but from what you said, the data that you provided is irrelevant and is far from being the truth.. You just don't know what you are talking about, but I have to give it to you - You actually layed it out line by line like a mathematical equation that ended up showing how little you know about PvP.

DHs (Havoc) are extremely frustrating to play against in PvP for a lot of reasons. But the mains ones would be :

Very low skill ceiling
Extremely high damage potential and very hard to kite melee.

There are more reason like mana burn in 2's, and other stuff, but these are the main ones.

I think that Blizzard designed Demon Hunters to be a class that looks cool and that is easy to use for new players and for people who just don't want to bother learning tons of mechanic and synergies. And honestly? If that was their objective, they succeeded. Because there is a large number of people who play WoW that aren't very good at video games in general. So hey, DH is a good choice for them because, the learning curve is very quick and they still perform on the damage chart and in PvP without requiring months or even years of experience.

I don't think Demon Hunters are detrimental to the game, some people enjoy playing them and it's fine.

But when a class has a very low skill ceiling and is extremely oppressive and hard to deal with... That creates frustration. If you look at Trillerbartom VODS (Arena player who plays multiple classes, mostly 2v2) when he plays his DH in arena, it surprises him how easy it is to just win because he's so used to play high-skill cap classes. He kept saying how ridiculous it was. These are the players you should look at when they talk about game balance because they have years of experience playing the game at a high level. Something that people "think" they have, but don't.

Not saying i'm a game design or anything, but yes, I feel like DH are broken in PvP and deal way too much damage. Specially at lower gear/elo, people are just getting decimated by them. That design philosophy works for PvE, but is just frustrating for players in PvP. Blizzard should definitely look closer to them and how they perform in PvP.

Maybe increase the skill ceiling in PvP? Or give them a different role than just pure-damage power-house unkitable. I don't know, i'm sure the game balance team at blizzard is aware of all that and is currently working on it. I hope, at least.