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  1. #261
    Warchief Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErrandRunner View Post
    In fairness to Blizzard though, you won't get many new players choosing the Horde if their past deeds were clearly exposed during the intro (unless the player is a sadist, psychopath or sociopath.)
    True, but you also won't get new players when the leveling consists of fighting a war you are absolutely not invested in and don't care about any of the people involved.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Yes. Why cannot we fight villains to save ourselves?

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    I think it is a preparation for restored Lordaeron under Calia.
    oh god, luckily my character hasnt eyes, so at least him is saved from seeing a shitty disney tirisfal

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by vilememory View Post
    Tauren: Cow supremacists.
    That is just udder nonsense!

    On topic though, I don't like it either. While I don't want the Horde to be just pure evil and villains, being heroic protectors is more the Alliances thing. Horde should be anti-heroes like they've always been, often using questionable methods.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Think about the race intros of vanilla wow how it was more honest about them, highlighting their pros and cons.
    Yet another reason I happily dropped BfA for Classic.

    "For years, the forsaken, raised into undeath by necromantic magics, originally controlled by the lich king, then later lead by the maniacal sylvanas windrunner, before her betrayal of the horde. Now leaderless, the forsaken must find their own path in a world that fears them, carving out their own destiny"
    Sorry, still suggests they might not hold ice cream socials and charity bingo to raise money to save lost puppies. The memo clearly states the Horde has no past wrongdoing. You aren't contradicting the Party's stance on the Horde, are you, citizen?
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Even though your term of whitewashing is completely and utterly, horribly, wrongly used, I know what you are trying to imply.
    The issue is, the only ones that don’t make sense are the Forsaken. Not sure why Blizzard would put them as “protectors of humanity” while leaving quests in showing they have fields of humans planted like crops. Hell, they still have a racial called Cannibalize.
    I'll give you the racial, but regarding the quests, you're going back in time through Chromie. It's all in the past.

    Though, really, cannibalism does not contradict protecting the living. It's just eating dead individuals of the same species.
    Last edited by SLNC; 2020-04-23 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I really hope not. It’s putting an Alliance aligned character in charge of a Horde race. I can see a lot of hatred over something like that happening.

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    What do you mean? 3rd time Orcs description was changed or 3rd time a variation for it has been used?
    The Orc one is pretty straightforward as they did arrive on Azeroth (albeit slaves of the Legion) and are now just trying to live there instead of return to their dying world.
    3rd time the Orcs have pinned all their problems on a scapegoat, shirked responsibility and then acted like they are finally free to be peaceful.

  7. #267
    Well at this point they've gutted every bit of the origins of this game. Makes me sad to see all the old lore and flavor thrown away in favor of this SJW garbage; because that's what it is. The game was always a parody of something. It used to be Warhammer, now it's kind of a scary parody of the same kind of homogenization being forced down people's throats in real life. Race, culture, heritage, faith, gender, etc lose their meaning and you're left with a boring generalized concept of "good guys" vs "bad guys", with the concept of "bad guys" being anyone who doesn't go along with whatever the "good guys" are trying to accomplish.

    I have had my ups and downs with this game for years, but thankfully it's only a video game and I don't really care that much. It kind of gives me the same feeling of the Marvel movies. Loved it at first, but by the time they got to Endgame I didn't care that much, and whatever else they have coming out in the future just doesn't interest me in the slightest for many of the same reasons.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    Well at this point they've gutted every bit of the origins of this game. Makes me sad to see all the old lore and flavor thrown away in favor of this SJW garbage; because that's what it is. The game was always a parody of something. It used to be Warhammer, now it's kind of a scary parody of the same kind of homogenization being forced down people's throats in real life. Race, culture, heritage, faith, gender, etc lose their meaning and you're left with a boring generalized concept of "good guys" vs "bad guys", with the concept of "bad guys" being anyone who doesn't go along with whatever the "good guys" are trying to accomplish.

    I have had my ups and downs with this game for years, but thankfully it's only a video game and I don't really care that much. It kind of gives me the same feeling of the Marvel movies. Loved it at first, but by the time they got to Endgame I didn't care that much, and whatever else they have coming out in the future just doesn't interest me in the slightest for many of the same reasons.
    Oh boy, here we go again.

  9. #269
    I don't think people, atleast new players would pick horde to play different colored humans. Because thats what this looks like.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Kind of like how Blizzard glosses over all the terrible things the Alliance has done so....meh.
    Imagine comparing the two. All of the Alliance's worst actions don't even equate to Teldrassil

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    If they don't paint it as them always being this way it's fine - it actually makes sense for many within the Horde to have radical moral and identity changes after Garrosh and now Sylvanas - I think the Horde makes much more sense and a freedom fighter movement than scourge that kills everything non-horde as it has been since Cata

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by ErrandRunner View Post
    In fairness to Blizzard though, you won't get many new players choosing the Horde if their past deeds were clearly exposed during the intro (unless the player is a sadist, psychopath or sociopath.)
    Of course sadists, psychopaths and sociopaths are the problem here. Not people who are not even able to differentiate between reality and a story. I guess every writer who created more or less evil characters in its stories and every actor who portrayed antagonists must fall in your three categories. Man o man...

  12. #272
    After reading this ,as a Horde player , i really want to Persona 3 myself .

    We'll reach a point where Pandarens are the most violent Horde race. Fucking Altruist Forsaken ... i can't even.

  13. #273
    As I pointed out in another thread I got the feeling that Blizzard is seeing the problem with the Forsaken as an evil race inside the non-evil Horde faction and they are trying to fix it. Having Sylvanas piss off was phase 1, this reinvention is phase 2.

    The question is, if there is going to be involvement of Calia that does result in this change in the race, and I daresay I hope so (*waits a moment for the death threats to subside*), because there SHOULD be a reason for the change. The Forsaken up until now are definately not the ones portrayed in this line, as everyone clearly sees, but they are standing at a crossroad now because of Sylvanas.

    They can either stay as they are and remain a thorn in the eye of many people or they can become better then what they were under Sylvanas, I think this line references that the Forsaken are actually taking the latter road and I like it.
    Of course people who specifically joined them to be "sick sociopaths" will not, but that is just the point is it not? The Horde is not the villian of this story, if you want to be a villain you cannot be part of the Horde. Or at least you cannot be part of the Horde anymore.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    3rd time the Orcs have pinned all their problems on a scapegoat, shirked responsibility and then acted like they are finally free to be peaceful.
    I don’t really see them pinning anything on a scapegoat. They never stated they had no free will and/or no choice outside of the Legion, when they were literally enslaved due to the blood.
    It’s not like after Garrosh or Sylvanas they went “we had no choice. We had to do it.” They chose to follow them, and it lead to splintering of their race during those times.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhart11 View Post
    Of course sadists, psychopaths and sociopaths are the problem here. Not people who are not even able to differentiate between reality and a story. I guess every writer who created more or less evil characters in its stories and every actor who portrayed antagonists must fall in your three categories. Man o man...
    Yeah imagine wanting to play a non "good" race/faction and being an actual normal human being irl. Jesus Christ.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    As I pointed out in another thread I got the feeling that Blizzard is seeing the problem with the Forsaken as an evil race inside the non-evil Horde faction and they are trying to fix it. Having Sylvanas piss off was phase 1, this reinvention is phase 2.

    The question is, if there is going to be involvement of Calia that does result in this change in the race, and I daresay I hope so (*waits a moment for the death threats to subside*), because there SHOULD be a reason for the change. The Forsaken up until now are definately not the ones portrayed in this line, as everyone clearly sees, but they are standing at a crossroad now because of Sylvanas.

    They can either stay as they are and remain a thorn in the eye of many people or they can become better then what they were under Sylvanas, I think this line references that the Forsaken are actually taking the latter road and I like it.
    Of course people who specifically joined them to be "sick sociopaths" will not, but that is just the point is it not? The Horde is not the villian of this story, if you want to be a villain you cannot be part of the Horde. Or at least you cannot be part of the Horde anymore.
    I guess the problem is that this change is so sudden there is no feeling like the Forsaken or even Horde in general has learned anything from BfA. It looked like they were on the track to learning something, but then that story was cut short when Sylvanas runs away. And now i get the feeling that the writers are working off a different script where the Horde had to face an actual choice in whether to side with Sylvanas and be evil, or side with Saurfang and risk being killed by the Alliance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I don’t really see them pinning anything on a scapegoat. They never stated they had no free will and/or no choice outside of the Legion, when they were literally enslaved due to the blood.
    It’s not like after Garrosh or Sylvanas they went “we had no choice. We had to do it.” They chose to follow them, and it lead to splintering of their race during those times.
    Scapegoat in the sense that after the Demon blood they seemed to pin everyting on Gul'dan and those dastardly demons, despite all signs pointing to the demons simply giving them what they wanted with conquest.
    More egregiously is what happened with Garrosh, where the Horde was dragged along with his conquest seemingly until it became an inconvenience to them and they decided to rebel, then pin all the problems they caused on that damn Garrosh.
    And now we have the same thing happening again with Sylvanas, where she slightly nudges them in a direction she wants them, and they wantonly kill with seemingly no problem until it starts being a problem for them, at which point they, surprise surprise, pin all the problems on Sylvanas being so evil, and then act like they were honorable this entire time after she is gone.

  17. #277
    High Overlord keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    I want to vomit. If pandaria was the coffin, I guess they've decided to hammer in the nails.

    This game is now purely just high fantasy bullshit. Dragon Ball Z power levels of an ever greater big bad.

    Faction conflict no longer makes sense, because they didn't want it to make sense.

    Warhammer 40k still has faction conflict decades later and everyone LOVES IT.

    Fuck blizzard, is there even anyone there left from the original crew who wrote Warcraft 2, 3, Diablo 1 and 2, Starcraft 1?
    holy shit, this is some real edgy opinion.

    Don't expect great story telling of faction war where you have to balance the story for the two factions.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Yeah imagine wanting to play a non "good" race/faction and being an actual normal human being irl. Jesus Christ.
    There is non-good and then there is omnicidal.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Imagine comparing the two. All of the Alliance's worst actions don't even equate to Teldrassil

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    If they don't paint it as them always being this way it's fine - it actually makes sense for many within the Horde to have radical moral and identity changes after Garrosh and now Sylvanas - I think the Horde makes much more sense and a freedom fighter movement than scourge that kills everything non-horde as it has been since Cata
    I'd point out all the terrible things the Alliance has done as a whole but as the language in your comment points out, Alliance fans will only see that the Horde is the evil faction and no matter what the Alliance does it's always justified via comments like "The Horde deserves it." or "The Horde was worse." even when they really weren't. Teldrassil is the only action that the Horde has done that has been incredibly atrocious and even then, most of the Horde feels bad about it and regrets ever following those orders Sylvanas gave.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    Fuck blizzard, is there even anyone there left from the original crew who wrote Warcraft 2, 3, Diablo 1 and 2, Starcraft 1?
    No. Pretty sure there isn't.

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