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  1. #41
    Did you miss the end of Bfa?

    "The where is our home" line?

    These new intros are what that cinematic was getting out

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by death87 View Post
    Race intro strings from https://www.wowhead.com/news=312240/...le-and-strings


    Forsaken: "As one of the undead Forsaken, you have been reanimated by dark magic. Though shunned by the living, you tirelessly strive to protect them."

    Belves: Your people, the blood elves, have persevered through tragedy and betrayal. You toil to ensure Azeroth never endures such suffering again.

    Darkspear: Renouncing the savagery of the other tribes, you and your fellow Darkspear trolls protect Azeroth with cunning ferocity.

    Horde faction text in character creator?: You are a soldier of the mighty Horde, a diverse band of races from across Azeroth who fight for freedom and honor.

    Orcs: Though the orcs came to Azeroth as conquerors, your kind has shed the bloodthirsty ways of old and now stand in defense of your new home.


    Is Blizz really trying to have players forget what happened throughout the past expansions? Especially when the very core of the Forsaken is making new Forsaken out of the living?
    I want to vomit. If pandaria was the coffin, I guess they've decided to hammer in the nails.

    This game is now purely just high fantasy bullshit. Dragon Ball Z power levels of an ever greater big bad.

    Faction conflict no longer makes sense, because they didn't want it to make sense.

    Warhammer 40k still has faction conflict decades later and everyone LOVES IT.

    Fuck blizzard, is there even anyone there left from the original crew who wrote Warcraft 2, 3, Diablo 1 and 2, Starcraft 1?

  3. #43
    I may not have been right about forsaken queen Calia (at least not yet).
    I may not have been right about the seemingly inevitable faction mechanical change.
    But I did also tell y'all that they were re-casting any and all "villainous" races as equally heroic... which fed the other two predictions!

    The whole point of Sylvanas' BFA arc (shared with Saurfang) was to get "the problematic racial leader" away from her designated race and away from a role of representing player characters intended to be heroic.

    Your characters are the heroes. Every last one of them. They are not villains. That is canon.
    Last edited by Omedon; 2020-04-23 at 01:31 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Rend Blackhand View Post
    You know when you keep saying something is genocide when it isn't, it loses meaning.
    Genocide is the intentional action to destroy a people—usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group—in whole or in part. A term coined by Raphael Lemkin in his 1944 book Axis Rule in Occupied Europe,[1][2] the hybrid word "genocide" is a combination of the Greek word γένος ("race, people") and the Latin suffix -caedo ("act of killing").[3]

    Correct me instead of whining pls.

  5. #45
    What do they say about humans? The humans have done their fair share of genocide.

  6. #46
    gj blizz, best april fools joke ive seen in a long time
    oh wait, its almost may? well fck me then i guess, these are worse than i couldve ever imagined. especially the forsaken one, holy jesus
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    its cute that you think its even close,like in the same multiverse to compare the 2
    I mean, it's easy to compare the 2 but there's no point because Alliance fans literally don't care.

  8. #48
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I mean, it's easy to compare the 2 but there's no point because Alliance fans literally don't care.
    There is really no comparison that can be had when one side has multiple genocides that get hand waved away and the other has a few isolated dick moves.

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Rend Blackhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    There is really no comparison that can be had when one side has multiple genocides that get hand waved away and the other has a few isolated dick moves.
    Thing is that there's no sense of scale with alliance fanboys. All of the bad stuff Orcs did has been in a timespan of less than forty years. Humans have been genociding Trolls for centuries just as a single example.
    Me not that kind of Orc!

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Killing members of an illegal criminal organization who attack legitimate authorities as well as the organizations paramilitary

    Destroying a camp which is used to train new Horde recruits against:

    A Genocide as well as permanently altering and crippling magical warfare against Draenei

    An Attempted Genocide against Stormwind which ended up in the displacement of its surviving population.

    An attempted genocide against every other nation on the eastern Kingdoms except the Gurubashi, the Amani and Alterac

    Slaughtering their way through Lordaeron and steal parts of its naval fleet.

    A Genocide against the Nation of Theramore

    An attempt for basically everything the old horde did alternative

    A Genocide against the Night elves

    Brennedan.
    Camp Taurajo was NOT used to train new Horde.

    The draenei genocide happened before the Horde was even formed.

    What attempted genocide against Stormwind?

    There was no attempted genocide in the Eastern Kingdoms.

    The Alliance slaughtered their way through the Zandalari capital then murdered their leader.

    The attack on Theramore was NOT genocide, as it does not fit the parameters of genocide. It was an attack against the Alliance's largest naval installation which is something that happens in war all the time.

    Wtf are you talking about with the old Horde?

    Genocide requires deliberate and systematic eradication of a people, culture, or creed. As Sylvanas' goal wasn't to erase the Kaldorei, it therefore wasn't genocide by definition.

    You got me with Brennedan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    There is really no comparison that can be had when one side has multiple genocides that get hand waved away and the other has a few isolated dick moves.
    Going by what needs to be done for it to qualify as genocide, the Horde actually hasn't committed genocide. Just mass murder. Not saying their hands are clean by the Alliance has done a lot of heinous things too.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Genocide is the intentional action to destroy a people—usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group—in whole or in part. A term coined by Raphael Lemkin in his 1944 book Axis Rule in Occupied Europe,[1][2] the hybrid word "genocide" is a combination of the Greek word γένος ("race, people") and the Latin suffix -caedo ("act of killing").[3]

    Correct me instead of whining pls.
    Genocide is when you try to exterminate certain ethnic, national, racial, or religious group explicitly for them being that ethnic, national, racial, or religious group. Hitler Killed Jews because of their Jewishness, slavs because they were slavs. This is Genocide. Methodicaly exterminating the group of people.

    In Warcraft very few things could be classified as Genocide and Theramore is not one of those, for example. Theramore was bombed, maybe too hard, but not because Horde gave 2 shits about Theramore nation. It was because the port was a point of insertion of Alliance troops.
    Old Horde Attacked Stormwind, but not because they put a goal of specifically extermianting humans, it was to strike at the heart of the enemy and sack the city for loot.
    All the wars you listed are not genocide. Just because the enemy is certain race doesn't mean the goal is to exterminate that race

    Dreanei one is the only TRUE genocide. Kiljaeden used Orcish Horde and specifically targeted them against Draenei for being Draenei.
    Assault on Teldrassil began as a war and became a mess the moment Sylvanas declared her KILLING NELF HOPE intentions, but still it's not a genocide, just a serious war transgression and overreaction.
    Also, sort of genocide is Orc internment camps. But the intent was more like camps for war prisioners rather than death camps so i don't really stand on that.

    Hope it's more clear now.

  12. #52
    The Patient LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    I may not have been right about forsaken queen Calia (at least not yet).
    I may not have been right about the seemingly inevitable faction mechanical change.
    But I did also tell y'all that they were re-casting any and all "villainous" races as equally heroic... which fed the other two predictions!

    The whole point of Sylvanas' BFA arc (shared with Saurfang) was to get "the problematic racial leader" away from her designated race and away from a role of representing player characters intended to be heroic.

    Your characters are the heroes. Every last one of them. They are not villains. That is canon.
    I don't get why though.
    Horde is especially when comparing active and not cyclical players way better off than alliance, something like 1:3 raiding guilds and 1:6 mythic+pugs.

    Also as already pointed out it's not particulary interesting

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Thats the Forsaken. Like, its the Forsaken you are refering to. They are citizens of the nation of Lordaeron which did everything you mention here. Playable humans are either from Stormwind or Kul Tiras. They have nothing to do with anything Lordaeron did because, again, Lordaeron transformed into the nation of undercity and its inhabitants are the Horde-Alligned Forsaken at this point. Like, their entire point is that they are the rightful inhabitants of Lordaeron and that this is way they have the legitimate claim over the kingdom. Which means, that all responsibilities also transfer to them. That is how nations work. Look at the Federal Republic of Germany. It successfully claims inheritance of previous german states, but is therefore also responsible for their actions and debts, to the point where it paid of WW1 debts as well as those of WW2 and is liable for crimes of the German Empire during its colonial period.
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize Admiral Proudmore was from Lordaeron, I guess it was Lordaeron after all who told him to go on his little ethnic cleansing crusade.

    I guess I must have gotten my Lordaeron history wrong. Apparently I mistakenly believed that it was Lordaeron who wanted to show mercy to the orcs, and the other human kingdoms (you know, the ones who were NOT Lordaerson, and now the Forsaken of Lordaeron) insisted they needed to be brutalized.

    OH WAIT ACTUALLY NO IT'S LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE.

  14. #54
    When is this forum going to commit ritual suicide? Because this is Blizzard's biggest "fuck you MMOC lore forums" update yet.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-04-23 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize Admiral Proudmore was from Lordaeron, I guess it was Lordaeron after all who told him to go on his little ethnic cleansing crusade.

    I guess I must have gotten my Lordaeron history wrong. Apparently I mistakenly believed that it was Lordaeron who wanted to show mercy to the orcs, and the other human kingdoms (you know, the ones who were NOT Lordaerson, and now the Forsaken of Lordaeron) insisted they needed to be brutalized.

    OH WAIT ACTUALLY NO IT'S LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE.
    I know that you were refering to Lordaeron and then you act like not knowing anything once I actually twisted your argument around. That is very weak, even for you. But okay, so when it comes to Admiral Proudmoore, then he was just responting to a hostile force with which his nation was in a perpetuate state of war. There was never a peace treaty signed between Orcs and Kul Tiras and the Orcs just recently attacked an at that time allied nation. And considering that you surely talked about Kul Tiras right from the start...when did Kul Tiras ever put Orcs in a death camp?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    When is this forum going to commit ritual suicide? Because this is Blizzard's biggest "fuck you MMOC lore forums" update yet.
    They already messed up lore way more seriously that this and here we are. I'm never getting over time/dimension-spanning Legion bullshit.
    This is a "FUCK YOU" to people that care about Warcraft lore way more than actual creatives at Blizzard do.
    Descriptions themselves change little, carry little substance and might just as well not exist. It was all clear even without them.

    But it's not the first thing we like that gets wrecked with weird creative directions and won't be the last. And we're not wining this battle.
    Last edited by Necromind; 2020-04-23 at 02:07 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Camp Taurajo was NOT used to train new Horde.
    Actually, yes. It was even a quest location. Not to forget that the commanding general there actually allowed civilians to escape and the only people killed where those actually fighting against the Alliance. Afterwards the Alliance actually imprisons war criminals who pillage the village.

    The draenei genocide happened before the Horde was even formed.
    It is actually going on during the formation of the Horde and therefore a Horde action.

    What attempted genocide against Stormwind?
    They attacked to destroy Stormwind as a nation, as proven by them slaughtering anyone remaining in the city. They forced the citizens of Stormwind to leave their homeland, counting as displacement.

    There was no attempted genocide in the Eastern Kingdoms.
    They fought to destroy the Alliance Kingdoms in their entirety.

    The Alliance slaughtered their way through the Zandalari capital then murdered their leader.
    After a prominent Member of the Zanchuli Council with the consent of Rastakhan declared war on the Alliance. The Zandalari actually started aggressions during Cataclysm. Which means even if they were not a member of the Horde at that point, they were a hostile nation. Not to forget that there is no indication of the Alliance harming civilians and then backing off to prevent further bloodshed among the Zandalari, something the Horde never considered.

    The attack on Theramore was NOT genocide, as it does not fit the parameters of genocide. It was an attack against the Alliance's largest naval installation which is something that happens in war all the time.
    Facts don't care about your feelings, it was a genocide as it resulted in the permanent destruction of the Nation of Theramore and therefore its people as a national group. It is a genocide.

    Wtf are you talking about with the old Horde?
    The Iron Hordes crimes go on the Horde as they joined the Horde.

    Genocide requires deliberate and systematic eradication of a people, culture, or creed. As Sylvanas' goal wasn't to erase the Kaldorei, it therefore wasn't genocide by definition.
    It is canonically even described as a genocide. So it is a genocide. Not to forget that Sylvanas bombed the tree with the deliberate intention to slaughter its inhabitants, wipe out the majority of the Night elf race and destroy Darnassus as a nation. The fact alone that Darnassus as a nation was destroyed and most of its citizens were slaughtered makes it a genocide.

    You got me with Brennedan.
    Going by what needs to be done for it to qualify as genocide, the Horde actually hasn't committed genocide. Just mass murder. Not saying their hands are clean by the Alliance has done a lot of heinous things too.
    Actually, considering the Hordes consistent style of warfare, most of their wars count at least as genocidal as they always fight with the intent of destroying the opposed group. The alliance hands are clean in comparison.

    Which is actually a problem and not something that I will defend. The fact that the Alliance is clean and barely ever commits any similar crimes as the Horde does is a hugh narrative problem, as it forces the Horde in a criminal villain role in which people who would enjoy to play a more heroic Horde character feel pressured to defend their faction to uphold their faction fantasy while the Alliance constantly feels like losing and getting the shorter stick at the end of any faction war, because there is never any sense of consequences for the Horde and it always feels like the Alliance are the ones supposed to be slaughtered and humiliated and the Horde is forgiven and gets away afterwards, while the Horde is dissatisfied with losing their leaders and officially losing the wars as well. This is a problem which actually decreases the enjoyment for most members of both factions. The only ones enjoying it are those who want to play as pure villains and the Alliance players who are not that into factions and don't really care about what happens to other races as long as there is peace afterwards.

    Blizz should make both factions equally bad and responsible for bloodshed. This would also make the end of faction wars more satisfying, as it would have more of a feel of ending the circle of violence once again instead of one side feeling treated as a villain and one side feeling like engaging in appeasement and giving up on Justice.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    I know that you were refering to Lordaeron and then you act like not knowing anything once I actually twisted your argument around. That is very weak, even for you. But okay, so when it comes to Admiral Proudmoore, then he was just responting to a hostile force with which his nation was in a perpetuate state of war. There was never a peace treaty signed between Orcs and Kul Tiras and the Orcs just recently attacked an at that time allied nation. And considering that you surely talked about Kul Tiras right from the start...when did Kul Tiras ever put Orcs in a death camp?
    Oh so all of a sudden it's "but there was no peace treaty and it was self defense SO...", but when the Horde does it - also under no peace treaty, also in response to encroachment - then it's aggression and needs to be stamped on their forehead for ten generations.

    As for the death camps... Kul Tiras didn't do that. The human kingdoms did - EXCEPT for Lordaeron, who was literally THE ONLY kingdom saying they shouldn't do this and asked for mercy. All the OTHERS insisted the orcs needed to be taught a lesson, and then put them into camps and made them fight for sport.

    But that's conveniently done away with as "that's ancient history", I guess.

  19. #59
    the forsaken change is the most egregious, like what the actual fck blizzard? "beware the living" are now "protect the living" -_- let's just ignore entire forsaken actions, history and culture to make them "heroes".... calia is going to end up as their leader isn't she, jfc :/

    also nice, have sylvanus committ a genocide on the night elves and then just ignore it and act like it didn't happen:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ab1287cceb.png


    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    So as a new player you read that text, create an UD character. Thinking of yourself as protector of the living. Then go through the nice light hearted new starting zone. Then your get confronted with a war were your racial leader just commited genocide and burned down the home of an civilization...
    yup, pretty much... kek stuff danuser, kek stuff~

    also ignore whenever a forsaken says "beware the living" since beware = protect now. Also ignore all the stuff forsaken do,, it's all just harmless "protection" experiments and the plague is this nice gas that heals the land

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by vilememory View Post

    Darkspear: Cannabalism is awesome, eat all the sentient races!
    This one is not even close to truth.

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