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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    There is a reason why the PvP brackets created exclusively for players with experience disabled are a complete desert since they came out. People used to claim twinks didn't twink to stomp on the unprepared leveling player, but for a challenge against other twinks.

    Reality quickly proved it was all a lie, or an infinitely small minority of twinks who were serious about this. They just wanted easy wins and to "pwn teh noobs", so to speak. For all its flaws, I quite liked when gear scaled down and certain effects were disabled inside battlegrounds. These days getting into a BG with anything less than equivalent to something around heroic Ny'alotha level will quickly turn you useless unless you play a spec that can support the team through various methods of control. But your health will melt if you pull attention to yourself.

    I understand PvP needs to have some form of progression too, and I honestly don't have any solutions to this that aren't a confusing mess, but I really wish gear didn't matter in PvP, at least not to the extent it does now. Maybe having access to PvP vendors once again in Shadowlands will help with this issue, but for as long as there isn't some form of PvP stat like there used to exist that causes PvE gear to be worth less than PvP gear in PvP situations, I feel like the "PvE advantage" won't really go anywhere.

    But I'm rambling too much. Instead I'll just point to my very old sig and end it at that.
    Unfortunately they've already tried having gear matter way less. Unsurprisingly, all the pubstompers complained nonstop, and since unrated battlegrounds are basically designed to facilitate pubstomping, it changed back.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    There is a reason why the PvP brackets created exclusively for players with experience disabled are a complete desert since they came out. People used to claim twinks didn't twink to stomp on the unprepared leveling player, but for a challenge against other twinks.
    I remember this. Blizz basically called them out on their word, and when they were forced to fight each other, they didn't. Instead they went back to the old battlegrounds and did everything to avoid gaining XP, like leaving the BG before it ended.

  3. #23
    With the current reward system exp is really the only reason to do bgs, so this is strange to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  4. #24
    the only type of twinking that wasn't stupid was doing arenas at lower level when you were able to queue for them back in the days. I did a bunch of lvl 70 arenas in cata.. it was fun because of how much higher your stats were cuz you could use wrath/cata enchangs/gems for extra stats. You obviously didn't get titles for it, but it had it's own ladder with actual ratings and mmr

    you also didn't lose that many abilities comparatively. Playing lvl 19 for example is fun for like a day, but soon you realize that you just press 2 abilities and if you're not a rogue or a hunter you're just inferior

    consdering that i'm super against ability pruning i legit don't get the point of playing at super low levels, because you have way fewer abilities and it makes gameplay super dull and boring

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Rune B View Post
    I don't know that they are - but why would you expect them to be very active? The goal of the game is to level to endgame. Not to twink (which is an abomination IMO).

    To be honest I'm surprised anyone plays low level BGs at all. And frankly, I'm not sure why they still exist. If I were Blizz I'd take all the people who wanted to level through BGs and just toss them into the same barrel with party sync and find some way to equalize power between all levels, perhaps issuing standard stats to everyone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's truly sad when people want to PVP but don't want a level playing field. I never understood why people PVP in games where gear beats skill.
    what is sad, is blizzard allowing this. blizzard stopped x9 level xp off twinks from joining levelers, i had a leveler in a BG other day, two players on my team were seriously enchanted with some epics, full blown enchants, +15 stat alch flask (a perma flask alch make at 300) they were 39s in 30-39 xp on bracket, what made it obvious they were xp off, they were flagged with the pink and white XP reduction buff box. even BOA enchanted levelers stand no chance.

    the opposing team had a DH who was a FC, when a player is capped at 120, they are considered XP on. even pruned to low level they have ultility, mobility, and abilities that classes at the level can not counter in the 30-39

    party sync abuse is rampant in BGs, blizzard system, circumvents the changes splitting xp on/off months into start of BFA

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    It actually deactivates all your gear and applies a template if you're sync'd down that low. Your gear does absolutely nothing.
    yes, i know...but DH and DK still have utility, mobility, abilities etc, that non hero classes can not reasonably counter

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post

    I understand PvP needs to have some form of progression too, and I honestly don't have any solutions to this that aren't a confusing mess, but I really wish gear didn't matter in PvP, at least not to the extent it does now. Maybe having access to PvP vendors once again in Shadowlands will help with this issue, but for as long as there isn't some form of PvP stat like there used to exist that causes PvE gear to be worth less than PvP gear in PvP situations, I feel like the "PvE advantage" won't really go anywhere.
    The only thing you need is the WoD PvP gear systems and that's it. It's the best solution to pvp gearing they ever had that answered in a satisfactory manner all questions asked (accessibility, power-curve, progression within pvp, PvP vs PvE geared players etc), but they completely abandoned it in Legion because we can't have deterministic gearing systems in an RNG-fiesta of an expansion.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    There is a reason why the PvP brackets created exclusively for players with experience disabled are a complete desert since they came out. People used to claim twinks didn't twink to stomp on the unprepared leveling player, but for a challenge against other twinks.

    Reality quickly proved it was all a lie, or an infinitely small minority of twinks who were serious about this. They just wanted easy wins and to "pwn teh noobs", so to speak. For all its flaws, I quite liked when gear scaled down and certain effects were disabled inside battlegrounds. These days getting into a BG with anything less than equivalent to something around heroic Ny'alotha level will quickly turn you useless unless you play a spec that can support the team through various methods of control. But your health will melt if you pull attention to yourself.

    I understand PvP needs to have some form of progression too, and I honestly don't have any solutions to this that aren't a confusing mess, but I really wish gear didn't matter in PvP, at least not to the extent it does now. Maybe having access to PvP vendors once again in Shadowlands will help with this issue, but for as long as there isn't some form of PvP stat like there used to exist that causes PvE gear to be worth less than PvP gear in PvP situations, I feel like the "PvE advantage" won't really go anywhere.

    But I'm rambling too much. Instead I'll just point to my very old sig and end it at that.
    Best bet is likely to bring back pure PvP gear with certain stats only for that. So in the beginning you might lose health quickly etc and as you slowly get geared your char gets better and stronger.

    I have never been a high end pvp player but I have always done alot of bgs and sometimes Arena. I quite liked having to work for pvp gear and over time get stronger and stronger. I expected to be weak in the beginning but over time i'd get stronger.

  8. #28
    Impossible to get a epic bg before max level, normal bgs pop though.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  9. #29
    welp werent that ailve anyways

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    Unfortunately they've already tried having gear matter way less. Unsurprisingly, all the pubstompers complained nonstop, and since unrated battlegrounds are basically designed to facilitate pubstomping, it changed back.
    You're creating the narrative instead of reporting what happened. What happened was that twinks found how to boost their gear as much as possible, as they always do, and stomped everyone else regardless of the restrictions and more even gear. Then they turned it back since it obviously didn't matter.

    Just to be absolutely clear. I'm not saying twinks are better or worse players, but they are more experienced in their bracket. The same way someone leveling their character to the endgame the first time won't be successful right off the bat. Complaining about someone beating you when they've literally played at that specific bracket 100-1000 times longer than you seems silly. You'd obliterate most of them at endgame, emphasis on most.

    My buddy has over 3 million killing blows in the 19 bracket, I played both endgame and twink battles back when I played myself... I don't even have 250k myself, but I'm more of a jack of all trades and master of none.
    Last edited by AtotehZ; 2020-06-21 at 10:19 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by AtotehZ View Post
    You're creating the narrative instead of reporting what happened. What happened was that twinks found how to boost their gear as much as possible, as they always do, and stomped everyone else regardless of the restrictions and more even gear. Then they turned it back since it obviously didn't matter.

    Just to be absolutely clear. I'm not saying twinks are better or worse players, but they are more experienced in their bracket. The same way someone leveling their character to the endgame the first time won't be successful right off the bat. Complaining about someone beating you when they've literally played at that specific bracket 100-1000 times longer than you seems silly. You'd obliterate most of them at endgame, emphasis on most.

    My buddy has over 3 million killing blows in the 19 bracket, I played both endgame and twink battles back when I played myself... I don't even have 250k myself, but I'm more of a jack of all trades and master of none.
    Calling twinks' experience the factor that gives them the edge in their bracket is a bit of a... stretch.
    They'll know what abilities and talents are available in their given bracket but that is something most anyone will quickly figure out after a few BGs. Their obvious advantage is the higher iLevel and all the pots and buff food that they've spent much time accumulating.


    Edit: On topic, you queue times will vary depending on your faction, bracket, and region.

    It takes hours for random BGs to pop on German servers.
    Last edited by Lodravel; 2020-06-23 at 11:17 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Calling twinks' experience the factor that gives them the edge in their bracket is a bit of a... stretch.
    It really isn't. You get extremely intimate with exactly how much each class is able to dish out, exactly what the mana requirement of each class of healer is, exactly who can reach you from where and so on. It's something that's almost impossible to get down to a T in endgame because there are so many variables, but in lower brackets people do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    They'll know what abilities and talents are available in their given bracket but that is something most anyone will quickly figure out after a few BGs. Their obvious advantage is the higher iLevel and all the pots and buff food that they've spent much time accumulating.
    Absolutely, but what the 'itemlvl' change showed us is that gear didn't really matter as much as people thought. Twinks still ruled their brackets.

  13. #33
    XP on - BGs pop for my alliance in 2-7 minute range, my horde double to triple that

    XP off - you will get no BG pops, infinite que time.

    there are twinks though in XP on 20-29 bracket, and XP on 110 level only bracket for legion capped accounts ( BFA levelers will not encounter these 110's)

    20-29 XP on bracket has the blizzard sanctioned twinks in two forms
    - veteran 20 twinks unsubbed are generally full blown enchanted twinks with max eng helms and items, max alch for +11 stat flask in BG scaled
    - free to play 20 twinks known as FTP 20s on trial accounts. they only have a few working minor or lesser enchants, they generally have all slots filled which causes a issue for levelers missing trinkets, rings, gear, or still wearing low level whites or greens still

    levelers with full enchants on BOAs and all slots filled will have little or no issues with FTP 20s, but when it comes to dealing veteran 20 twinks your enchanted BOAs will not overcome them due to BOAs lacking versatility compared to the gear veteran 20 twinks have farmed, or made (eng helms)

    my advice if you are leveling, stay out of the xp on 20-29 bracket. you can get lucky and win alot being carried due to having more twinks on your team, or alot of severe lopsided painful oses
    Last edited by pinkz; 2020-06-26 at 12:32 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by AtotehZ View Post
    It really isn't. You get extremely intimate with exactly how much each class is able to dish out, exactly what the mana requirement of each class of healer is, exactly who can reach you from where and so on. It's something that's almost impossible to get down to a T in endgame because there are so many variables, but in lower brackets people do this.

    Absolutely, but what the 'itemlvl' change showed us is that gear didn't really matter as much as people thought. Twinks still ruled their brackets.
    Yeah, there's a simple explanation for that.
    Non-twinks are usually quite bad at PvP. They're not pvpers! A few of them, sure, but the vast majority is a bunch of noobs and anyone with a little experience will mow right through them.


    Gear always mattered, even when we had stat templates. The iLvl difference was great enough most of the time to make quite the difference.
    I know from experience. All I've been playing is PvP for a decade and that don't matter, twinks will be twinks. Even during Legion, you could only defeat them with a lot of luck, no matter your skill.

  15. #35
    There's Party Sync, enabling fully geared level 120's to queue into leveling battlegrounds. I saw people decked in 475 ilvl gear in my level 37 bg. How the heck? How is this any different to twinking? Sure they are scaled down and they have some of their abilities disabled but still.

    Horde has sooooo many more queueing but it's horde i had very imbalanced bgs on. I'm talking about 7 vs 10 in Kotmogu. How i am supposed to win this? It's like literally 3 enemy players per our 2.

  16. #36
    Bloodsail Admiral Narwhalosh Whalescream's Avatar
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    Blizzard doesn't care about low level stuff. Gotta pump out that new content!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Gear always mattered.
    True, it just mattered less than more than 90% whine about.

    I always play with my friends when I play. So when people say that taking the gear away from us will somehow allow them to fuck us up... No it won't. It'll be the exact same story, we'll just play more careful.

    I admit that some scenarios put twinks in a really overpowered position. Like when Blizzard open lower brackets up to bugs. I've seen a lvl 19 paladin and warrior with more than 5k HP and ~500Dps while most enemies had 800-1100hp. That's messed up, but as a twink you go for it and count on it to be fixed.
    Last edited by AtotehZ; 2020-06-26 at 05:05 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    There's no real point queueing BGs below level cap
    It might be for, and this is just waay out there I know, fun.

  19. #39
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    I know for a fact I don't touch low level bgs with a forty foot robot arm that's being controlled remotely from the other side of the universe.
    All they are is lagfests from the opposite faction using third party software to try to DC your faction for an easy win.

    You know fucked up shit is going on when you have a better time staying connected to the battle ground in the corruption infested RNGfest of max level brackets then you do low level brackets.

  20. #40
    if they were rewarding xp wise like dungeons then it would be poppin

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