TBC, world buffs and consumables

[CostinR]

i watched Method killing Lady Vashj and first thing i see them all having all old world buffs + 5 elixirs and flask and other buffs too... is it going to be thing to farm old world elixirs in addition to new ones and getting world buffs as well?
It's going to suck if TBC is just like classic where you stack all world buffs for every raid.

That was patch 2.0 where much of the content was a broken buggy mess. Kael'Thas couldn't be done because he didn't work until 2.1

Patch 2.1 changed all of this. You couldn't use World Buffs in raids anymore, nor could you stack consumables like crazy. You either had a Flask or a Battle+Guardian Elixir. They also fixed the bosses, nerfed some like Vashj and vastly improved the Epic Gear in the game so that actually using it was worth it.

What you'll likely see people using constantly in Burning Crusade is: Flask, Food, Weapon Oil, Rumsey Rum and Potions. Hardcore players will use Potions on CD, Charges on Jewelcrafting Necks, Scrolls and Dark Runes.

It's a LOT less stressful to farm for even a full four hour wipefest in Burning Crusade then for a farm raid on current classic though if you're min/maxing consumables. A large part of this is that getting gold is a lot easier in BC then Vanilla. You can reasonably get 200-300+ g/hour in BC and there's a lot of ways guilds can help you get consumables.

There are other expenses in BC however. Expect to spend anywhere between 6k-10k gold to get your pre-raid BiS, and that's without counting getting epic flying mount.

[Nitros14]

There are other expenses in BC however. Expect to spend anywhere between 6k-10k gold to get your pre-raid BiS, and that's without counting getting epic flying mount.

6-10k gold? Are you talking about stuff like spellstrike and spellfire? I played in 2007 and don't recall farming the primals to be overly bad. The only expensive thing was getting darkmoon card crusade.

[CostinR]

6-10k gold? Are you talking about stuff like spellstrike and spellfire? I played in 2007 and don't recall farming the primals to be overly bad. The only expensive thing was getting darkmoon card crusade.

Spellsrike, Spellfire, Frozen Shadoweave are worth a pretty penny, especially if you are buying CDs from other people so you can craft them earlier. Then there's all the gems and enchants to consider. Blacksmithing isn't that much cheaper either.

Of course it doesn't apply to everyone: Prot and Holy Paladins, Feral Druids, Shamans, Rogues and Hunters can avoid some of the ludicrous expenses but they are still spending thousands of gold to get a proper pre-raid set.

[TrollHunter3000]

would be interesting if they decided to make all these changes phase by phase (other than allowing world buffs and million consumambles lol screw that)

Doubt it. They'll probably do the same they did with Classic. It'll start in a later patch and the only staggered release is of raids.

[Nitros14]

Doubt it. They'll probably do the same they did with Classic. It'll start in a later patch and the only staggered release is of raids.

That would be a serious shame. Releasing Magtheridon in his 2.4 state would be stupid, you'd only need 5 people to click the cubes instead of 20.

Who wants to do the dumb baron geddon version of Solarian or the incrementally nerfed Kael'thas?

[Beet]

That Method's kill video is during pre 2.1.0 patch where you could stack as many elixirs as you wanted and world buffs worked until this patch as well.



TBC will be different if it's going to be 2.4.0 at launch.
It was "vanilla like" at start but patch after patch Blizzard made major changes. Starting from 2.1.0 removing consumable and world buff stacking. But the biggest change was 2.3.0 where they completely made step to another direction:

-converted weapon skill to expertise
-reduced Azeroth XP requirement alot and made basically ALL elite areas to non elites
-healing gear now has ~30% spell damage to it as well
-almost all classes got minor revamp and/or QoL changes (hunter lost deadzone, blind no longer need reagent, mage table etc.)
-all profession trainers train up to 300 skill (no longed needed to go Uldaman to learn master Enchanting etc.)
-AV reinforcements

those are first things to come in mind so yeah it will not be like classic if they choose to give us the latest patch.

I forgot about the expertise thing. This meant so the racial wasn't broken anymore right? Like right now on classic orcs and human melee don't need edgemasters to be competitive due to getting your weapon skill automatically.

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That would be a serious shame. Releasing Magtheridon in his 2.4 state would be stupid, you'd only need 5 people to click the cubes instead of 20.

Who wants to do the dumb baron geddon version of Solarian or the incrementally nerfed Kael'thas?

I know man, I agree. It is depressing, but that's what they'll do. Trust me I'm with you, I wanted classic to have a progressive patch system. I expected that was their plan. You know launch us with 1.0 and slowly add up the other patches over time. That would have been so fun and it would have made classic on day one an entirely different game from classic on day 200. Warriors wouldn't be doing 900+ DPS in Molten Core with blues in this scenario right off the bat, lol.

[Erous]

I'd be really disappointed if they remove the elites and put in the post-nerf heroics. If that's what it turns out to be, it'll just be a faceroll like classic is today.

[arkanon]

How so? For a lot of people this is new content, and for those that miss it and want to play it, it’s great content

Or, a HUGE letdown like it was for many, many people.

[CostinR]

That would be a serious shame. Releasing Magtheridon in his 2.4 state would be stupid, you'd only need 5 people to click the cubes instead of 20.

Who wants to do the dumb baron geddon version of Solarian or the incrementally nerfed Kael'thas?

While I can agree about Magtheridon, though frankly it only adds up to be a frustrating affair for the raid leader and not an actual challenge, I really don't see the point with Solarian. She's a horrible boss in all versions and I'd personally rather do her without having to get 2 people in full AR gear standing around doing squat the entire fight, As for Kael'Thas he only got nerfs to his weapons and advisors and really screw the advisors having ridiculous HP in P1, P2 will be demolished by Warlocks.

But really they should just go with 2.4.3 talents and gear and just makes bosses harder in a reasonable way, by reasonable I don't mean some stupid version of bosses but rather buffing their HP and in some cases ( like Lurker ) their damage.

[Rusken]

A world first guild using all measures possible to try and get a world first kill =/= the norm for everyone progressing in TBC. Only the sweatiest guilds who really care about being "the best" would go that kind of effort.

[Nitros14]

While I can agree about Magtheridon, though frankly it only adds up to be a frustrating affair for the raid leader and not an actual challenge, I really don't see the point with Solarian. She's a horrible boss in all versions and I'd personally rather do her without having to get 2 people in full AR gear standing around doing squat the entire fight, As for Kael'Thas he only got nerfs to his weapons and advisors and really screw the advisors having ridiculous HP in P1, P2 will be demolished by Warlocks.

It was a popular strategy but you didn't need AR to do Solarian. When we did Solarian we just split into an 'infected' group that had already had the wrath of the astromancer debuff and a non-infected group where you dropped off the debuff, so no one got one shot by arcane missiles. Killed it fine. It was a fun fight that way.

The 10% health nerf to the advisors and weapons is a pretty big deal since for most guilds it was the difference between the phases bleeding into each other and having everything cleared.

You know I was looking through patch notes and found the truly most atrocious change of 2.3: "Lowered the [Fireball] damage of Defias Pillagers"

[TJ]

Says the guy who only thinks things matter when raiding.

You are literally the problem with every version of WoW.

Because they pretty much do. Who in their mind buys flasks, elixirs, and food buffs solely to do dailies and mundane farming? The majority of people min maxing all these things and getting prepared with consumables are raiders... Not to mention nearly everything in the game is balanced around raiding.

It's pretty obvious what the other guy is saying and you're not understanding him. He's completely right.

[Zarator8]

So sad how obsessed classic players are with retail. You lot cant even last 2 pages of a "classic" thread without forcing the conversation onto your dislike of retail. Why cant you just discuss classic and how great it is? Why are you so desperate to talk about retail?

Because I was replying to the person above me and what he said concerned retail?

[Nicholaes92]

Quite literally nowhere was it mentioned that you had to 'buy' them.

You can in fact make them yourself. Or have friends/guildies who make them.

And no - The game being balanced around raiding is why this and many other changes were made. These changes, which were made only with benefitting raiders in mind, DID take away the ability to use them together for people who DIDN'T raid also. Which was the large majority of BC's playerbase.

Just because you didn't try to stack every single consumable, didn't mean it had no benefit for you. Being able to use two Guardian Elixirs or two Battle Elixirs before they became such was a benefit nobody was able to do again after this change. And yes - It did make a difference, no matter how small.

I don't know what is 'so obvious' that 'he's trying to say' that I'm apparently not getting about this, but you're both apparently doing a terrible job of saying what you mean to say. If you're trying to say something - Maybe just say it. It'll make it a lot easier to understand rather than navigating your various "This didn't help anyone" comments that are blatantly false.

Look your message is right when you’re talking about what happened to retail and what happens when you balance the game around raiding. That message is fine.

I’m telling you that you are dying on the wrong hill when you are attempting to find an example of that.

No one fucking cared about stacking elixers more than raiders. Christ sometimes even as a raider I didn’t even use or buy ONE flask, let alone stacking them to do fucking dailies dude.

If you want people to listen to your message that the game shouldn’t be balanced around raiding, I completely agree, find a new example. Don’t say dumb shit like you are trying to push right now.

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Spellsrike, Spellfire, Frozen Shadoweave are worth a pretty penny, especially if you are buying CDs from other people so you can craft them earlier. Then there's all the gems and enchants to consider. Blacksmithing isn't that much cheaper either.

Of course it doesn't apply to everyone: Prot and Holy Paladins, Feral Druids, Shamans, Rogues and Hunters can avoid some of the ludicrous expenses but they are still spending thousands of gold to get a proper pre-raid set.

‘Thousands?’ Umm idk what server you have been playing on, but it ain’t thousands

[arkanon]

Because I was replying to the person above me and what he said concerned retail?

Like i said, looking for ANY excuse to talk about your one true love - Retail wow. Its like a small child who pulls the hair of a girl in his class - he says its because he doesnt like her, but all adults know its because he has a crush on her.

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Look your message is right when you’re talking about what happened to retail....

You lot are INFATUATED with retail. Its unhealthy. Focus on what you enjoy.

[Tojara]

Prices aren't really dictated by what we remember years ago. Everybody knows which materials will be sought after, making the prices for such things a lot higher than they were when TBC was released over a decade ago. I'd imagine we might end up with the same retarded setup we have on classic, where servers are far bigger than they were before, essentially funneling 2 to 3 times the population into a single contested area as well. Finally add in well known farm locations for accumulating raw gold, and you have an entirely different picture in regards to what prices of things will be in TBC.

How many people made arcanite reapers in classic? How many people crafted high end blues, or non-bis gear when crafting professions in classic? The answer to both of those questions is virtually zero.

When I played vanilla over 15 years ago, an arcane crystal wasn't worth 50-60 gold, to give you an example.

Some items are going to be worth way more than what they were years ago, but it's all relative. With more gold into the economy everything you sell will be worth more as well. On the flip-side, because content in general is easier than what we are use to, somethings just won't hold any value because people would rather just get raid drops instead of spending thousands of gold to acquire them.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

I forgot about the expertise thing. This meant so the racial wasn't broken anymore right? Like right now on classic orcs and human melee don't need edgemasters to be competitive due to getting your weapon skill automatically.

yeah those racials wont be that good anymore after 2.3.0

[Nicholaes92]

Like i said, looking for ANY excuse to talk about your one true love - Retail wow. Its like a small child who pulls the hair of a girl in his class - he says its because he doesnt like her, but all adults know its because he has a crush on her.

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You lot are INFATUATED with retail. Its unhealthy. Focus on what you enjoy.

The guy was talking about how the game eventually became just balanced around raids, and that IS what happened to retail. You don’t even have to agree that’s a negative thing but that is what happened

[TJ]

Quite literally nowhere was it mentioned that you had to 'buy' them.

You can in fact make them yourself. Or have friends/guildies who make them.

And no - The game being balanced around raiding is why this and many other changes were made. These changes, which were made only with benefitting raiders in mind, DID take away the ability to use them together for people who DIDN'T raid also. Which was the large majority of BC's playerbase.

Just because you didn't try to stack every single consumable, didn't mean it had no benefit for you. Being able to use two Guardian Elixirs or two Battle Elixirs before they became such was a benefit nobody was able to do again after this change. And yes - It did make a difference, no matter how small.

I don't know what is 'so obvious' that 'he's trying to say' that I'm apparently not getting about this, but you're both apparently doing a terrible job of saying what you mean to say. If you're trying to say something - Maybe just say it. It'll make it a lot easier to understand rather than navigating your various "This didn't help anyone" comments that are blatantly false.

If you don't understand by now, then there's no point.

[Nicholaes92]

If you don't understand by now, then there's no point.

Yeah I should have stopped talking to him as well right when he said not being able to stack elixers and flasks was a big negative while doing dailies and leveling