TBC, world buffs and consumables

[Nicholaes92]

So since you raidED in TBC, what view of TBC do you have?

A raidER's point of view. You don't have a non-raiders point of view of TBC, thus can't speak from a non-raider's point of view in TBC.

Now think about what you have to do in TBC. If you're not raiding, what are you doing?

Literally fucking nothing. Farming herbs maybe. Doing a couple dailies. I can tell you with certainty, you're making WAY more elixirs than you ever need, because you don't raid and don't have reason to use them, and definitely won't sell them fast enough to outdo what you're making.

So you, as a raider, see it as stupid because 'you can just sell them.'

But as a casual, why sell them? You don't need the money after epic flight, and especially given their price you can get that more than easily enough. You can use them. This is why you have a raider's mindset. Because to YOU, the only reason to ever use them is while raiding because 'it's the only time it's worth it.' But that's not true to literally anyone who doesn't raid, because they don't raid, so that's not a time to use them. Repairs aren't an issue, so THAT's not a time to use them. Literally there is nothing else to spend gold on - So selling them is entirely useless to you.

Eventually, using them is all you have. YOU would vendor them, because to YOU, with your RAIDER'S point of view of TBC, the few silver for mats or whatever mattered. Not so to non-raiders.

You really need to read my whole post before you keep making a fool of yourself. I literally just said I am playing tbc RIGHT NOW as a non raider so my view point is not a raider anymore. I literally just do heroics and bgs and arenas casually. Super casually. You can lump my view point in as a non casual to make yourself feel better about your opinion, but no matter what you say doesn’t make your statement any less stupid. Many casuals would probably agree. Quit being a dumb dumb

[Zka]

I'm sure BC Classic will be implemented just like Classic. Last technical patch, content paced. Therefore classes will be fairly balanced and world buffs will be not a thing you worry about.

[RobertMugabe]

The private server mentality infecting classic that you need to go get every world buff and random ass consumable to do Molten Core is pretty obnoxious yeah. Some things you can't bring back.

Nothing to do with private servers. It has always been like that and still is like that on retail. There are always gonna be guilds/people who will do the maximum and it's not just people looking for world first.

[Bigbazz]

That's not entirely my point. Even if they kept weapon speed normalization to an earlier vanilla version, the point remains, who is going to spend over a thousand gold for an item that's going to last an incremental amount of time?

Well I'm not an expert on Vanilla so I can't be 100% certain, but I was lead to believe the point was that Arcanite Reaper was better than raiding weapons, precisely because of its slow speed. To my knowledge it was the best weapon available in the game at that time, and the weapon normalisation removed that advantage. This is what I've been told over the years by other players.

All of this leads me to believe that some crafted items in TBC won't be as sought after as they once were

But now we talk about TBC I know it extremely well (that's when I started playing WoW on my own account, and I revisited it in 2017 as I mentioned in other posts), in terms of theorycrafting and gearing, raiding strategies and all the like. I posted about this above but hadn't noticed you wrote it while replying to my post. In TBC the crafted items are extremely vital to raiding progression, you really cannot do without them.

Everyone is going to be decked out in crafted gear because much of it is equal or better than the raiding and heroic gear for T4, in some cases even T5. The question is how much of it will Blizzard make available at launch of Classic TBC. Of course if it comes later it will lose its value but it will still be vital to anyone jumping on the raiding ladder.

[Nicholaes92]

In other words, you're playing on a private server and pretending it's retail.

That's not how this works. Take your advice above.

What? What makes you think that I would play the game any differently on a 1:1 tbc server or a blizz one? You are full of dumb dumb comments friend

[Nitros14]

In TBC the crafted items are extremely vital to raiding progression, you really cannot do without them.

Are you talking a 2.0 server before all the epics got buffed and they fixed a lot of the tuning?

If they release 2.4 you're absolutely not going to need crafted stuff to do nerfed Magtheridon and Gruul. Serpentshrine and the Eye aren't really overly hard instances in 2.4 either except for Vashj and Kael'thas. And the tuning on Kael'thas was eased by a 10% health nerf in 2.3.

[Nicholaes92]

Are you talking a 2.0 server before all the epics got buffed and they fixed a lot of the tuning?

If they release 2.4 you're absolutely not going to need crafted stuff to do nerfed Magtheridon and Gruul. Serpentshrine and the Eye aren't really overly hard instances in 2.4 either except for Vashj and Kael'thas. And the tuning on Kael'thas was eased by a 10% health nerf in 2.3.

From what blizzard talked about for classic, it would be completely possible for them to release tbc patch by patch and not this ‘phase’ bs we have in classic. They straight up said they had data from 1.12 patch onwards on exactly what changes were made and this was their reason for just sticking to 1.12. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if this is something they do. There’s literally no reason to start tbc off on 2.4.3 if this is possible

[Bigbazz]

Are you talking a 2.0 server before all the epics got buffed and they fixed a lot of the tuning?

If they release 2.4 you're absolutely not going to need crafted stuff to do nerfed Magtheridon and Gruul. Serpentshrine and the Eye aren't really overly hard instances in 2.4 either except for Vashj and Kael'thas. And the tuning on Kael'thas was eased by a 10% health nerf in 2.3.

Need and want are a different matter. Players will seek the best gear, and the best gear for a lot of slots is crafted and not only that but it's also pretty easy to pick up. So you have affordable highly powerful crafted gear, of course people are going to use it. Nobody gets to 70 and says "right the game is easy so I won't bother getting upgrades, I will just go as I am".

If they release 2.4 I already said the game is easy, that doesn't stop people wanting to gear up. Classic is way easier than TBC, people still went nuts farming themselves into the best gear.

[Nicholaes92]

Need and want are a different matter. Players will seek the best gear, and the best gear for a lot of slots is crafted and not only that but it's also pretty easy to pick up. So you have affordable highly powerful crafted gear, of course people are going to use it. Nobody gets to 70 and says "right the game is easy so I won't bother getting upgrades, I will just go as I am".

If they release 2.4 I already said the game is easy, that doesn't stop people wanting to gear up. Classic is way easier than TBC, people still went nuts farming themselves into the best gear.

Yeah they went super nuts with the whole pre raid BiS nonsense and even I thought that was ridiculous. Like crafting that gear for kara and gruuls I get, but pre raid BiS for MC? WTH? lol

[TJ]

Right, so since they're the ones who cared most, obviously they're the only ones who matter.

This is literally the mind set that caused these changes. It's literally THIS REASON why the game became so focused around only raiding.

You're once again failing miserably at saying anything other than "Raiders are all that matter."

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Right, so there isn't a point, and you can't tell us the point because there isn't one. Or, more specifically, I called you out directly and now you're embarrassed and can't defend yourself.

Got it.

No, you lack reading comprehension and can't understand a simple point, making it pointless even discussing it with you as you're repeating yourself over and over.

You got that?

[Erous]

ofc they will remove the elites lol,this isnt tbc+ its tbc as it was,also even with nerfed dungeons,tbc hc's are still the hardest heroic dungeons ever,even harder than cata ones(cata dung werent really THAT hard,it was the nature of the rdf that caused issues,you cant throw randoms vs mecanics that can actualy 1 shot you and expect imediat succes)

You mean, it IS TBC+ and not original TBC right? It's TBC after the casuals cried and couldn't do anything. More or less TBC-

[Nicholaes92]

You mean, it IS TBC+ and not original TBC right? It's TBC after the casuals cried and couldn't do anything. More or less TBC-

Do not know what people mean when they say tbc + or are you intentionally playing dumb to sound slick

[Bigbazz]

You mean, it IS TBC+ and not original TBC right? It's TBC after the casuals cried and couldn't do anything. More or less TBC-

The changes over the course of TBC were good ones though. The elites were turned non elite probably because most players were levelling solo and didn't have access to other players at the same progression point to do the quests with (due to most players already being at cap, especially on lower pop realms), meaning they either had to be boosted or skip those quests and Blizzard made a change that was good for the game based on how people were playing at that point in time, especially noticing how many players had quit shortly beyond the start zones (the reason for the Cata questing revamp)

And most of the other changes to the game vastly improved class balance, fixed buggy bosses and were just a reaction to allow the game to progress and to make catchup reasonable. Like removing the T5 attunements because even the guilds who had killed Maggy were not going back and clearing it as it wasn't worthwhile, and many players avoided Heroic Shattered Halls like the plague. Them nerfing Maggy allowed it to be a reasonable "puggable" boss, giving more content to casual players while the hardcores were long beyond Maggy anyway, at least Gruul had worthwhile drops and had less strict raid comp needs.

TBC had a million hurdles to jump over, not all of that was good, it played out pretty poorly for many guilds that could have otherwise cleared everything pre T6 if not for being cannibalised due to the attunement system.

[deenman]

You mean, it IS TBC+ and not original TBC right? It's TBC after the casuals cried and couldn't do anything. More or less TBC-

the concept of classic or tbc + is that they would add new content that didnt exist.....they arent going to do that

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The changes over the course of TBC were good ones though. The elites were turned non elite probably because most players were levelling solo and didn't have access to other players at the same progression point to do the quests with (due to most players already being at cap, especially on lower pop realms), meaning they either had to be boosted or skip those quests and Blizzard made a change that was good for the game based on how people were playing at that point in time, especially noticing how many players had quit shortly beyond the start zones (the reason for the Cata questing revamp)

And most of the other changes to the game vastly improved class balance, fixed buggy bosses and were just a reaction to allow the game to progress and to make catchup reasonable. Like removing the T5 attunements because even the guilds who had killed Maggy were not going back and clearing it as it wasn't worthwhile, and many players avoided Heroic Shattered Halls like the plague. Them nerfing Maggy allowed it to be a reasonable "puggable" boss, giving more content to casual players while the hardcores were long beyond Maggy anyway, at least Gruul had worthwhile drops and had less strict raid comp needs.

TBC had a million hurdles to jump over, not all of that was good, it played out pretty poorly for many guilds that could have otherwise cleared everything pre T6 if not for being cannibalised due to the attunement system.

all gr8 points,and i have a feeling tbc will go pretty well and smooth with its 2.4 start

[Nicholaes92]

Because you'd have to be suggesting a 1:1 blizzlike server exists.

Which you can't prove, whatsoever, because what values Blizzard used for ANYTHING in TBC isn't available to any server. It's only available to Blizzard.

So even "1:1 blizzlike" servers aren't exactly like Blizzard servers. So you can play however you want, but you're not playing Blizzlike TBC casually - You're playing PRIVATE SERVER TBC casually. Which really means getting carried by all the hardcore TBC players that have been playing TBC for 10 years.

You really are all the problems with WoW today. Ignorant, insistent you're right even when you're wrong... And unable to recognize when your own problems are actively blinding you to your own faults.

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Nope, because you still haven't stated what the point of your pointless post was. So until you do, it's still pointless.

I never suggested these servers at completely blizzlike, I said my attitude toward the game doesn't change because of the platform I'm playing on. I used the 1:1 phrase to let you know it isn't a server that is like an instant 70 or 5 man raid server or something crazy like a lot do. You are acting like you know you are in the wrong now so you are just bringing up random points to at least be right in SOMETHING. Yeah, not going to work sister.

Nope, because you still haven't stated what the point of your pointless post was. So until you do, it's still pointless.

He has multiple times you are just an extremely ignorant person who refuses to read what you dislike.

[Erous]

The changes over the course of TBC were good ones though. The elites were turned non elite probably because most players were levelling solo and didn't have access to other players at the same progression point to do the quests with (due to most players already being at cap, especially on lower pop realms), meaning they either had to be boosted or skip those quests and Blizzard made a change that was good for the game based on how people were playing at that point in time, especially noticing how many players had quit shortly beyond the start zones (the reason for the Cata questing revamp)

And most of the other changes to the game vastly improved class balance, fixed buggy bosses and were just a reaction to allow the game to progress and to make catchup reasonable. Like removing the T5 attunements because even the guilds who had killed Maggy were not going back and clearing it as it wasn't worthwhile, and many players avoided Heroic Shattered Halls like the plague. Them nerfing Maggy allowed it to be a reasonable "puggable" boss, giving more content to casual players while the hardcores were long beyond Maggy anyway, at least Gruul had worthwhile drops and had less strict raid comp needs.

TBC had a million hurdles to jump over, not all of that was good, it played out pretty poorly for many guilds that could have otherwise cleared everything pre T6 if not for being cannibalised due to the attunement system.

I just completely disagree with you. The lure of TBC, was the gating and the effort required to do raid and dungeon content. Just look at the sub numbers alone. TBC PEAKED wow new subscribers and it levelled off into WoTLK and then tumbled into oblivion following. WoW was originally created for a niche market and than unexpectedly intrigued the masses. Just think if the same theme that TBC had with gameplay carried to today. Yes, WoW is still the most popular MMO by far, but consider the possibilities if change were NOT made at this critical juncture in WoW's development history,

I understand that the WoTLK babies, will say WoTLK is wow at it's finest. However, the NUMBERS agree that TBC at it's height was PRE-NERF and carried expectations for future expacs to come and the dip in subscriber base is due to Blizz NOT keeping up with thoss expectations and instead attempting to cater to the casual playerbase.

Not saying that's wrong, because casual = money. Obviously. But, the sub numbers don't lie.

[Nicholaes92]

I just completely disagree with you. The lure of TBC, was the gating and the effort required to do raid and dungeon content. Just look at the sub numbers alone. TBC PEAKED wow new subscribers and it levelled off into WoTLK and then tumbled into oblivion following. WoW was originally created for a niche market and than unexpectedly intrigued the masses. Just think if the same theme that TBC had with gameplay carried to today. Yes, WoW is still the most popular MMO by far, but consider the possibilities if change were NOT made at this critical juncture in WoW's development history,

I understand that the WoTLK babies, will say WoTLK is wow at it's finest. However, the NUMBERS agree that TBC at it's height was PRE-NERF and carried expectations for future expacs to come and the dip in subscriber base is due to Blizz NOT keeping up with thoss expectations and instead attempting to cater to the casual playerbase.

Not saying that's wrong, because casual = money. Obviously. But, the sub numbers don't lie.

I agree to a certain extent, there are changes in tbc that were extremely good and even though slightly casual favored, still made the game better. But there was a point where they just went full casual mode and I hated that (even though I still loved wotlk). Removing attunements, making badge gear be at BLACK TEMPLE LEVEL ITEM WTW, changes like that during tbc was a massive fucking mistake. And I don't think that really takes anything away from wotlk, because it WAS an amazing expansion.

But I do think with changes like this left out of wotlk, it could have been so much better. Having guilds spread out in all the wotlk raids during that time would have been amazing. I understand catch up mechanics can be a thing, and can work well if you do it right, but making those catch up mechanics completely removing 90% of your expansion and having super casual guilds clearly the expansion's final raid is an absolute joke.

And I know there are tons of people typing up a storm on their keyboard right now "WHAT YOU CAN ONLY SEE THE CONTENT YOU PAYED FOR IF YOU NO LIFE BLAH BLAH BLAH". Nope, you earn it. That how games work

[Bigbazz]

The lure of TBC, was the gating and the effort required to do raid and dungeon content.

For some yes, for others no. That certainly has never played out on TBC private servers. Unlike Vanilla and WOTLK the TBC realms always die out, and that's with attunements intact. TBC actually has pretty bad staying power for whatever reason. in 2017 Warmane TBC had 15k players and a massive queue on launch, within 2 years it was dead. Their WOTLK server which launched years prior to their TBC has been stuck at ICC content for an eternity and is still healthy.

Why do TBC servers always die? If TBC was such a good game at holding players, that'd not be the case.

Just look at the sub numbers alone. TBC PEAKED wow new subscribers and it levelled off into WoTLK and then tumbled into oblivion following.

Not that it's really that relevant since games have life cycles where they increase and decrease in popularity, the peak was actually during WOTLK, at Cata launch and at WOD launch. During TBC the game was still gaining popularity, still gaining ground on the popularity of Vanilla, you can't just say that TBC was most popular because content was hard and stuff was gated when Blizzard had to remove the gating so that players could experience the content and only a tiny % of players even saw Black Temple, let alone Sunwell.

I played back then too, killed everything other than Muru/KJ - Found this old SS recently if you doubt that.

WoW was originally created for a niche market and than unexpectedly intrigued the masses.

Well yes and no, they took the Everquest model and made it more casual to appeal to a wider audience, in pure Blizzard style..

Just think if the same theme that TBC had with gameplay carried to today.

If WoW didn't evolve from that model it might be dead today. WoW is a game kept afloat by casuals, and TBC wasn't very casual friendly in the long run. People had had enough of TBC while it was active and couldn't wait for WOTLK. I say that and TBC is my favourite expansion and I was still 100% engaged with WoW during the end of TBC, because I wasn't someone who spent a year farming black temple and we were still working on Sunwell, but the casuals never even killed a trash mob in Sunwell before 3.0.

Yes, WoW is still the most popular MMO by far, but consider the possibilities if change were NOT made at this critical juncture in WoW's development history

WoW is popular because it's popular, the game is a different game now but if it had not evolved it would have died long ago. People are nostalgic for the old game, but that's because it's been over a decade since they played it, only very few are obsessed with a specific version of the game, generally those who played private servers (like me).

I understand that the WoTLK babies, will say WoTLK is wow at it's finest. However, the NUMBERS agree that TBC at it's height was PRE-NERF and carried expectations for future expacs to come and the dip in subscriber base is due to Blizz NOT keeping up with thoss expectations and instead attempting to cater to the casual playerbase

No the numbers would tell you WOTLK, because sub numbers were higher in WOTLK. TBC pre-nerf was new, of course people liked it but the content was unavailable to almost everyone. When they did nerfs like removing attunements they saved guilds, they stopped people unsubbing.

[Nicholaes92]

Vanilla and WOTLK the TBC realms always die out, and that's with attunements intact

Idk how familiar you are with these servers but this is not the reason why they die at all. Every tbc server that has ever been released is buddy as FUCK. Idk what it is about making tbc but no one has done it right. Not to mention all of them that started off super popular always end up doing shit like selling glaives for hundreds of dollars, selling characters, and so on. Honestly it almost makes raiding impossible. A lot of tbc servers start with numbers that make the server at max capacity that rivals wotlk and vanilla servers, they just die once people get into raiding because of these issues.

[Bigbazz]

Idk how familiar you are with these servers but this is not the reason why they die at all. Every tbc server that has ever been released is buddy as FUCK. Idk what it is about making tbc but no one has done it right.

Not the case at all with Warmane, it's less buggy than Classic was on launch, everything worked, bugfixing was done daily to catch all the minor stuff, class balance was correct.. Some stuff was buggy on new release (like Vashj/KT) but by the time the average guilds got there it was all fixed, by all accounts it was a very fluid and very polished game experience, and still is (though nobody plays it).

I'm very familiar with that server because I played from launch through to just before BT opened, helped a lot with bugreporting and was part of some of the first kills for many bosses. Warmane in 2017 was about as good as Nostalrius, if not not better, and on top of that it was extremely popular with the server being pretty much full 24/7 for a while. Then there was just a turning point around where it levelled off and players just started slowly bleeding, then after Sunwell (I didn't play then but friends did and got the server first etc) the server just turned into a ghost town, it's almost completely dead now, no guilds raiding sunwell.

Meanwhile their WOTLK server has been healthy for like a decade, and in its prior form it was a complete shit show of bugs, while the current iteration is about the same as the TBC (very good, very playable, everything works even minor nitpick issues were addressed). The fix they did to hunter steady shot clipping for their TBC realm was a first in private realm history AFAIK, prior to the fix no private server could properly do that SS ratio.

Not to mention all of them that started off super popular always end up doing shit like selling glaives for hundreds of dollars, selling characters, and so on. Honestly it almost makes raiding impossible. A lot of tbc servers start with numbers that make the server at max capacity that rivals wotlk and vanilla servers, they just die once people get into raiding because of these issues.

Yep that is an issue and absolutely the case with Warmane, it's a shit show and one of the reasons I lost the will to play. However, their WOTLK server is the same and for TBC they actually time gated it so that the shop was not available on launch and when they finally added it you couldn't buy "current" gear while content was new, it was like you could buy "previous" content items.

They launched a "no shop" "blizzlike" server too and that one died almost immediately and got merged back into the standard one. Strangely the shop servers are more popular because the casuals get to buy the gear they want. Believe it or not but players were vocally begging for them to add the shop to the TBC realms.