Frost DK's - visions?

[roostah]

Hi everyone.

I recently did orgrimmar 4 mask with my frost dk. my ilvl is ~453 and it was ok, had one orb left for thrall. cheat death was used though.

I feel my main problem is dps, have anyone here suceeded 5 masks with my ilvl?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...d-hand/roostah

any thoughts about my specc etc that i might improve?

[Stoffmeister]

When did you use cheat death? In my experience, after you got rank 15 cloak its all about making small and safe pulls. Eat sanity food at clever moments and use a weakaura to track your buff of the titans (I wait for the cd to be ready before doing thrall)

[NickFireman]

What I do on my Death knight is run 3 Frostwhelps on azerites, Frostwyrm Fury and Icecap for trash clearing. Purification Protocol helps a lot too (both major and minor). I also bring some tomes, so I switch back and forth from BoS build for bosses (except a few ones, that keeps moving or have some adds, to bump frostwhelp's mastery gain).

[Raisei]

Generally I find Frost to rigid for Visions, mostly if you use the Syndragosa build. There is just too much stuff that can and will interrupt you and ruin your Breath uptime, plus the 2 Min CD means you either pull really big (which can be quite dangerous at 5 Mask) every two Minutes or only use it at champions and bosses, and many of those have stun abilities of their own that will make it difficult to keep the

The Whelp build is decent enough I guess, if you absolutely want to play Frost, but beware that the enormous reach of that bloody dragon does not pull a new group when you had to/wanted to use an Orb.

Really If I go for 5 Mask runs I go for Unholy or even Blood. The insane burst aoe you can push out makes big pulls just as possible without the need to have a 2 Min CD up every time.

[roostah]

When did you use cheat death? In my experience, after you got rank 15 cloak its all about making small and safe pulls. Eat sanity food at clever moments and use a weakaura to track your buff of the titans (I wait for the cd to be ready before doing thrall)

cheat death disapeared before rexxar i think, i messed up with the elite and some adds there. it should not happen normally.

What I do on my Death knight is run 3 Frostwhelps on azerites, Frostwyrm Fury and Icecap for trash clearing. Purification Protocol helps a lot too (both major and minor). I also bring some tomes, so I switch back and forth from BoS build for bosses (except a few ones, that keeps moving or have some adds, to bump frostwhelp's mastery gain).

have been thinking of trying icecap instead. as i understand i go for haste and three frostwhelps? not sure if i have that good equipement.

Generally I find Frost to rigid for Visions, mostly if you use the Syndragosa build. There is just too much stuff that can and will interrupt you and ruin your Breath uptime, plus the 2 Min CD means you either pull really big (which can be quite dangerous at 5 Mask) every two Minutes or only use it at champions and bosses, and many of those have stun abilities of their own that will make it difficult to keep the

The Whelp build is decent enough I guess, if you absolutely want to play Frost, but beware that the enormous reach of that bloody dragon does not pull a new group when you had to/wanted to use an Orb.

Really If I go for 5 Mask runs I go for Unholy or even Blood. The insane burst aoe you can push out makes big pulls just as possible without the need to have a 2 Min CD up every time.

i have not tested unholy in many years so i am not familiar at all with rotation etc, blood though i know a little. what i find hard with blood is to make an dps build, what talents etc to choose but it sounds quite fun to try.

[Raisei]

have been thinking of trying icecap instead. as i understand i go for haste and three frostwhelps? not sure if i have that good equipement.

Pretty much yes, you reduce the CD of Pillar of Frost as much as possible and use the Icecap build to push them out as often as possible. For the cleave to be the killer it can be you need 3 Whelps yes.

i have not tested unholy in many years so i am not familiar at all with rotation etc, blood though i know a little. what i find hard with blood is to make an dps build, what talents etc to choose but it sounds quite fun to try.

For Unholy you use Blood of Enemy in a big pull, then go for a standard Wound Bursting + Epidemic rotation. The damage is quite absurd. The MDI people managed to pull millions of dps out of that.

In Blood you basically depend on Corruptions, mainly Twillight Devastation and maybe Echoing Void. Both scale with your max Health which is very high in Blood spec, when that stuff triggers you vaporize packs.

[roostah]

Pretty much yes, you reduce the CD of Pillar of Frost as much as possible and use the Icecap build to push them out as often as possible. For the cleave to be the killer it can be you need 3 Whelps yes.




For Unholy you use Blood of Enemy in a big pull, then go for a standard Wound Bursting + Epidemic rotation. The damage is quite absurd. The MDI people managed to pull millions of dps out of that.

In Blood you basically depend on Corruptions, mainly Twillight Devastation and maybe Echoing Void. Both scale with your max Health which is very high in Blood spec, when that stuff triggers you vaporize packs.

Thanks!

Think im gonna try uh and blood! Sounds fun to learn something new!

[roostah]

Re-specced to uh, did orgri with 4 masks and it was really easy.

Had one orb left and cheat death left when facing thrall.

Thrall was my only concern, he was really tough to get down. Cheat death kicked in same moment as he died. Gotta learn the mechanichs better before trying 5!

[Yhcti]

I just rock the M+ setup and trash generally dies very easily.

[Dristereau]

I can't speak for Frost but UH is very strong for Visions. For Orgrimmar I go Wisdom>Spirits>Drag>Honor. Thrall I usually find simple, he's very much a case of if you dodge mechanics he's harmless. The shield you're unlikely to break so don't stress about that and use affixes as you can, especially the promised power zone. My general strategy is drop an orb in the room slightly to the right against the wall then pull the Void Boars into the orb. Kill them there whilst you have all your sanity restoring and then swap Thrall. I usually throw Army here and pop everything. You can also try to make sure you have a Gift proc from killing the boars by waiting for the cooldown to reset and track it with WA. Take Thrall on a circle around the room, just keep him facing outwards to stop spreading purple on the floor.

Based on your cloak level and resistance you shouldn't have too much trouble. Twilight Devastation is pretty insane for it as well. Are you losing lots of sanity early on? If you play the mechanics well you shouldn't have much of an issue with sanity.

[roostah]

I just rock the M+ setup and trash generally dies very easily.

which setup is that?

I can't speak for Frost but UH is very strong for Visions. For Orgrimmar I go Wisdom>Spirits>Drag>Honor. Thrall I usually find simple, he's very much a case of if you dodge mechanics he's harmless. The shield you're unlikely to break so don't stress about that and use affixes as you can, especially the promised power zone. My general strategy is drop an orb in the room slightly to the right against the wall then pull the Void Boars into the orb. Kill them there whilst you have all your sanity restoring and then swap Thrall. I usually throw Army here and pop everything. You can also try to make sure you have a Gift proc from killing the boars by waiting for the cooldown to reset and track it with WA. Take Thrall on a circle around the room, just keep him facing outwards to stop spreading purple on the floor.

Based on your cloak level and resistance you shouldn't have too much trouble. Twilight Devastation is pretty insane for it as well. Are you losing lots of sanity early on? If you play the mechanics well you shouldn't have much of an issue with sanity.

its my on fault not reading the mechanics as i should.

not that much sanity problems. not sure which food to use though. the 2% health (not a major concern) or the one which decrease the cc duration? hate the cc thing which i often miss to interrupt due to panic mode when everything is going sideways

maybe i should try 5 orbs before reset and see how far i get.

[Greengrim]

There really isn't anything you can mess on FDK tbh. It has a total of 5 buttons, 2 of which are on 30+sec CD.

Your ilvl is quite low though.

[Unholyground]

cheat death disapeared before rexxar i think, i messed up with the elite and some adds there. it should not happen normally.



have been thinking of trying icecap instead. as i understand i go for haste and three frostwhelps? not sure if i have that good equipement.




i have not tested unholy in many years so i am not familiar at all with rotation etc, blood though i know a little. what i find hard with blood is to make an dps build, what talents etc to choose but it sounds quite fun to try.

Rotations for any spec take maybe 15 mins to figure out, with no guides lol.

[Alaenore]

There really isn't anything you can mess on FDK tbh. It has a total of 5 buttons, 2 of which are on 30+sec CD.

Your ilvl is quite low though.

Howling Blast, Obliterate, Frostscythe, Frost Strike, Pillar with Whelps ~20 sec, Remorseless Winter, Cold Heart, Death Strike since visions require healing.
Already 8. Excluded Essence and Empower Rune Weapon.

And boy can you mess stuff as FDK, like popping RW when you have no runes left, Frostschything with no KM, no lining your CH on Icy Citadel + PF or the end of PF, sing BotE after whelp, using too many FS during pillar, holding Rime too long when it's one of the hardest hitting spells, ...

[roostah]

i have switched to UH :-)

[Greengrim]

Howling Blast, Obliterate, Frostscythe, Frost Strike, Pillar with Whelps ~20 sec, Remorseless Winter, Cold Heart, Death Strike since visions require healing.
Already 8. Excluded Essence and Empower Rune Weapon.

And boy can you mess stuff as FDK, like popping RW when you have no runes left, Frostschything with no KM, no lining your CH on Icy Citadel + PF or the end of PF, sing BotE after whelp, using too many FS during pillar, holding Rime too long when it's one of the hardest hitting spells, ...

I'm sorry pal, but I just can't agree with you. To me FDK arguably stands right next to DH in gameplay complexity. I actually play both classes. Yes I play softcore, and I'm somewhere around M+15 pool, but still. I have been avoiding it for the last 2 expansions now, as it's way too boring to play. Not to mention BoS was mainstream, which even further worsened this spec.

[Alaenore]

I'm sorry pal, but I just can't agree with you. To me FDK arguably stands right next to DH in gameplay complexity. I actually play both classes. Yes I play softcore, and I'm somewhere around M+15 pool, but still. I have been avoiding it for the last 2 expansions now, as it's way too boring to play. Not to mention BoS was mainstream, which even further worsened this spec.

BoS hasn't been mainstream in M+ this extension except probably Uldir when Frostwhelp didn't exist.
If you just press your buttons when they light up obviously you're playing the class, it doesn't mean you're playing it efficiently.

[Greengrim]

BoS hasn't been mainstream in M+ this extension except probably Uldir when Frostwhelp didn't exist.
If you just press your buttons when they light up obviously you're playing the class, it doesn't mean you're playing it efficiently.

First of all, if you read my post, you will notice I was refering to BoS being mainstream for the past 2 expansions, not just this one. And secondly, you're still wrong. BoS was an absolute mainstream also in M+ for sesons 1 and 2 completely. In season 3 the meta started to shift towards IC but the usage ratio was still 3:1 in favor of BoS. Season 4 was where (thank god) that retarded shit finally stopped being used. Here, if you don't believe me, check it for yourself:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...st&partition=1

Literally 5 of the 8 spells you mentioned in your previous post are used ONCE every 30 sec or so. The remaining 3 being Obli, FSc, FS. Hell, I myself wouldn't even differentiate Obli from FSc as you press either one or the other, I see them as simply a 'rune spender'. ERW and essences are used on even bigger intervals, so you were right not to mention them.

So what do you mean by playing the class efficiently? Not overcapping your RP? Froswhelps? A simple priority? These are all stuff you can burn into your brain and get used to within a single day.

[Alaenore]

First of all, if you read my post, you will notice I was refering to BoS being mainstream for the past 2 expansions, not just this one. And secondly, you're still wrong. BoS was an absolute mainstream also in M+ for sesons 1 and 2 completely. In season 3 the meta started to shift towards IC but the usage ratio was still 3:1 in favor of BoS. Season 4 was where (thank god) that retarded shit finally stopped being used. Here, if you don't believe me, check it for yourself:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...st&partition=1

Literally 5 of the 8 spells you mentioned in your previous post are used ONCE every 30 sec or so. The remaining 3 being Obli, FSc, FS. Hell, I myself wouldn't even differentiate Obli from FSc as you press either one or the other, I see them as simply a 'rune spender'. ERW and essences are used on even bigger intervals, so you were right not to mention them.

So what do you mean by playing the class efficiently? Not overcapping your RP? Froswhelps? A simple priority? These are all stuff you can burn into your brain and get used to within a single day.

I stand corrected on BoS, thought it was in S2 and not S3! And yet even on S2, you can see one outlier using Obliteration instead of BoS and doing well with it, which proves other specs were already usable outside of big keys with no issues.
However, BoS lost its interest in Legion during ToS, in favor of Obliteration when the talents got switched around.

As for spells :
- Howling blast is used everytime you have Rime, which is in average every 10 seconds ;
- Frost Pillar is used about every 20 seconds, depending on procs ;
- Remorseless Winter is used almost on cooldown as well, which is 20 seconds ;
- Cold heart can be used more often than every 40 seconds depending on procs and where you are in the fight.

If you don't differentiate rune spenders, it's like saying you don't differentiate Combo points spenders for rogue and they only have 3 buttons. Besides, Fsc can be used on single target when you have enough mastery, especially with the Honed Mind corruption + 3 frostwhelp.

And yes, playing the class efficiently is the difference between ranking green and ranking purple. You actually can overcap your RP, or let rune sleep depending on your RP count, RW cooldown, using frostwhelp at the right time depending on your resources and stuff.
For instance :
- it's more profitable to overcap RP if it means extending RW with 10 GS stacks, or if it means using Frostscythe on a KM against multiple targets ;
- You can let tour runes sleep if you're confident there'll be downtimesand you're AOEing with Rime followed by a RP dump during a mastery pro, especially if you have one or more latent chill ;
- Delaying RW by a few seconds if it means you'll stack it high quickly can be profitable ;
- Pillar usage changes depending on your essence ;
- Cold heart usage changes depending on your azerites. You can sit at 20 stacks for 10 seconds if it means lining it up with a worldvein resonance or BotE, or use it at 15 at the end of one of these.

Every class can be memorized in less than a day, WoW isn't hard. But saying you cannot mess FDK is simply wrong, especially when you're not theorizing what to do and actually do it.

[Greengrim]

I stand corrected on BoS, thought it was in S2 and not S3! And yet even on S2, you can see one outlier using Obliteration instead of BoS and doing well with it, which proves other specs were already usable outside of big keys with no issues.
However, BoS lost its interest in Legion during ToS, in favor of Obliteration when the talents got switched around.

As for spells :
- Howling blast is used everytime you have Rime, which is in average every 10 seconds ;
- Frost Pillar is used about every 20 seconds, depending on procs ;
- Remorseless Winter is used almost on cooldown as well, which is 20 seconds ;
- Cold heart can be used more often than every 40 seconds depending on procs and where you are in the fight.

If you don't differentiate rune spenders, it's like saying you don't differentiate Combo points spenders for rogue and they only have 3 buttons. Besides, Fsc can be used on single target when you have enough mastery, especially with the Honed Mind corruption + 3 frostwhelp.

And yes, playing the class efficiently is the difference between ranking green and ranking purple. You actually can overcap your RP, or let rune sleep depending on your RP count, RW cooldown, using frostwhelp at the right time depending on your resources and stuff.
For instance :
- it's more profitable to overcap RP if it means extending RW with 10 GS stacks, or if it means using Frostscythe on a KM against multiple targets ;
- You can let tour runes sleep if you're confident there'll be downtimesand you're AOEing with Rime followed by a RP dump during a mastery pro, especially if you have one or more latent chill ;
- Delaying RW by a few seconds if it means you'll stack it high quickly can be profitable ;
- Pillar usage changes depending on your essence ;
- Cold heart usage changes depending on your azerites. You can sit at 20 stacks for 10 seconds if it means lining it up with a worldvein resonance or BotE, or use it at 15 at the end of one of these.

Every class can be memorized in less than a day, WoW isn't hard. But saying you cannot mess FDK is simply wrong, especially when you're not theorizing what to do and actually do it.

Glad we agree on BoS.

And I stand corrected for the 5 spells too, it's not every 30ish seconds you cast them, it's every 20ish. But I still believe such a window is too big for these spells to be classified as "buttons to press". For example, you press each of them 5 times in a 2minute fight. Just 5 times - that's almost nothing.

The remaining of your post is in fact the priority I mentioned. Just a few simple 'IF>THEN' bullets you must memmorize and execute. As you said, WoW isn't a hard game, and neither is one of the easier specs: FrostDK.