Necromancer fans: What are you looking for in a Necromancer class?

[Kithelle]

At first glance I was like what an idiotic comment this is. Then I got to actually thinking of it and you know what I think I can totally get behind this idea. Basically have 5 classes and mold all other classes/ abilities into them. You could easily mold Warrior, DK, and Pally into one class with all the abilities, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Shaman into another and Rogue, DH, Hunter, Monk, Druid could be rolled into one as well so you could arguable even do it in 3 classes. I agree it would be easier to balance as you would have a Melee/ Tank class, a Caster/ Magey class, and a Physical Damage class that can choose to shapeshift and tank as well.

Yeah because that would make so much sense...especially molding the DK with Paladin.

All these changes would do is piss a lot of people off because they lose what they enjoyed.

[Teriz]

AS I have stated before lorewise Gazlowe is not a tinker nor has he ever been. And what fucking tinker has ever been a mother fucking ghost buster?????? And why do you insist on using non lore abilites in your fantasy then cry when someone puts something new into a necro or what ever?

Gazlowe has Tinker abilities from HotS in WoW, thus he is a Tinker in lore.

Pocket factory could become starfall and have mini clockwork gnomes/goblins raining down from the sky from a floating factory.

Yeah, that’s not how pocket factory works. The clockwork goblins march to the target, attack the target and explodes. Also a factory doesn’t “float” high in the air.

[Kyriani]

Let's push this discussion forward a bit. What lore character could represent the Necromancer class?

The new version of Kael'thas might work. He's all pale vampire/blood orb magic in Shadowlands. It wouldn't be a terribly far stretch for him to be the Necromancy poster boy if he somehow returned to Azeroth in his new form.

[Triceron]

So in this case Tinker would be considered the 13th class, available at character selection. No actual ties to Druid at all? I think that could work, I just think Blizzard would have to package it as like a "Paragon Class", because it's just reusing Druid mechanics and not a "new" class like "allied" races.

This is more or less what it is. I also wouldn't see it as '13th class' because IMO it should be packaged alongside multiple classes ushered out at the same time; similar to how Cataclysm opened up Race/Class comboes to a whole slew of classes and not just roll them out slowly. Or Allied Races for that matter.

I think it's possible to reskin the mechanics, but I don't think an already existing druid character should be altered to become a tinker.

Fully agreed here.

What is convenient though is (as far as I can tell) no existing races that could be druid would fit well for tinker so it would just be opening up the class to races that couldn't play druid anyway.

This works for the Tinker, but other concepts like Necromancer or Spellbreaker (basically Arcane Paladin) might be trickier. At the moment I focus on concepts that can be opened up to races that simply don't have the option to ever become that class, due to thematic reasons. Orc Wardrummers (Priests), Tauren Dragonsworn (Demon Hunters), Night Elf Wardens (Paladins), etc.

I think I'd be in agreement with this I'd just have to really look at all of the Druid spells and be able to see a Tinker equivalent - it also would require a ton of art and FX work because unlike Warlock - Necro glyph, there wouldn't really be any overlapping abilities that can stay, every ability and talent would need to be renamed and reskinned.

Art and FX are definitely gonna be required, but the base mechanics of a class could easily be reworked to fit anything else. The gameplay of WoW has been homogenized to the point where any class/spec is more or less applicable to any other, if given the right coat of paint. I mean we're at the point where itemization for Block and Parry aren't very relevant any more, so Guardian Druids perform more or less like a Warrior. I'd imagine a Tinker would be similar, if it were to have a Form-based Tanking spec.

[Aucald]

A lot of proposed Necromancer class flavor tends to involve any and all of the following elements:

• A reliance on diseases or plagues as a kind of alternative power (e.g. Soul Fragments, Frost Mage Icicles, etc.)
• Mix-n-match DoT's or debuffs with stacking and synergistic effects.
• Scythes as a true class weapon akin to a Demon Hunter's Warglaives.
• Mass summoning of undead as temporary controllable minions.
• A customizable, summonable, and permanent undead minion affected by Talent/Spec choices.
• High CD summonable undead minion, perhaps even as a kind of vehicle (a la Grand Necrolord Antiok from WotLK).
• Lich-form CD, with enhanced damage abilities.
• Specializations that span from Shadow/Frost (Lich), Shadow/Unholy (Plaguebringer), and Shadow/Death (Necrolord).
• Exploration of Shadow/Frost themes akin to the Warlock's combination of Shadow/Fire.

To answer some of the preexisting issues with WC3/TFT abilities lifted from the Lich portfolio and handled out to other classes (e.g. Frost Nova, Death and Decay, etc.):

• Well of Decay replaces Death and Decay, smaller radius, afflicts units within range with a necrotic disease that is a minor DoT and creates new Wells of Decay on expiration with a brief grace period.
• Shadowfrost Blast replaces Frost Nova, PBAoE pulse with snare, perhaps with a minor Frost-based DoT.
• Necrofrost Bolt replaces Frostbolt, basic DD, perhaps with a minor Frost-based DoT for synergy purposes.
• Desolation as a Defile expy, combination of Defile and Shadow Fissure. Major DD for effected units slowed/snared by other Necromancer abilities.

As for some abilities that are more or less not replicated for other classes, you can make variations of the following:

• Dark Ritual - consume or damage an undead minion for more mana. Alternatively, explode a minion to start spreading a potent DoT to those caught in the effect.
• Chains of Kel'Thuzad - Basic slow/snare, good for use with lots of AoE type effects, increases susceptibility to synergistic abilities.
• Shadow Fissure - Shadow-based AoE zone, probably a Talent option between other types of AoE.
• Dark Blast - Basic Shadow DD, utility spell.
• Summon Frost Spectre - Summons a Frost Revenant type minion.
• Amnennar's Wrath - Knockback with moderate damage, nice synergy with AoE zones and kicking people into disease pools.
• Dominate Mind - CC/Stun
• Dark Empowerment - Mass empowerment of summoned minions, enhancement of active DoT's, etc. etc.
• Mana Barrier - Temporary protection/armor buff.
• Deathchill Blast - Another basic DD spell, with Frost flavor.
• Curse of Torpor - Minor Shadow DoT with Snare component.
• Dark Martyrdom - Consume minion(s) for DD, similar or alternate of Dark Ritual.
• Animate Dead/Night of the Dead - Bread & butter undead summoning spell, perhaps summoning various types of minor undead fodder.

[jellmoo]

Uh, it doesn’t match how Blizzard has shown the Tinker class to be. In order for it to work, you’d have to find Druid equivalents to established Tinker abilities. Good luck with that.

It's not really that hard though. It just needs some creative thinking.

Pocket Factory = Force of Nature
Cluster Rockets = Starfall
Robo Goblin = Act of form switching
Death Lazor = Star Surge
Xplodium Charge = Solar Beam

Different art and animation from what the Druid has, obviously, but keep the same base effect. Does it translate absolutely perfectly? Nope. But more than a few abilities in either WC3 or HotS already do not.

[Ielenia]

Saying "you have death knights who are necromancers, so we don't need a class that would canibalize on the death knight" is as dishonest as saying "you have paladins who are priests, so we don't need a class that would canibalize on the paladin".

[qwerty123456]

So in this case Tinker would be considered the 13th class, available at character selection. No actual ties to Druid at all? I think that could work, I just think Blizzard would have to package it as like a "Paragon Class", because it's just reusing Druid mechanics and not a "new" class like "allied" races.

I think it's possible to reskin the mechanics, but I don't think an already existing druid character should be altered to become a tinker.

What is convenient though is (as far as I can tell) no existing races that could be druid would fit well for tinker so it would just be opening up the class to races that couldn't play druid anyway.

I think I'd be in agreement with this I'd just have to really look at all of the Druid spells and be able to see a Tinker equivalent - it also would require a ton of art and FX work because unlike Warlock - Necro glyph, there wouldn't really be any overlapping abilities that can stay, every ability and talent would need to be renamed and reskinned.

Well I think if Blizzard ever did class skins it would be to keep adding "classes" but keep balancing issues down. They could easily make a good class out of the necromancer concept but if it ended up a class skin while they kept adding other classes people would be pissed. Sure there might be more work art wise but it would be much less work than adding a whole new class.

[Triceron]

It's not really that hard though. It just needs some creative thinking.

Pocket Factory = Force of Nature
Cluster Rockets = Starfall
Robo Goblin = Act of form switching
Death Lazor = Star Surge
Xplodium Charge = Solar Beam

Different art and animation from what the Druid has, obviously, but keep the same base effect. Does it translate absolutely perfectly? Nope. But more than a few abilities in either WC3 or HotS already do not.

I'd probably say Hurricane would work better as Cluster Rockets since it has a disruption component to it. Starfall could easily be some sort of orbital bombardment ability, say an airstrike from a Gunship or rockets you launch that disappear in the air and come crashing down on the enemies.

I would even go as far as adding back old mechanics like Wild Mushroom if it can be equated to Explodium Charges. Just make it a talent option instead, if need be.

[glowpipe]

Personaly. 1 melee and 1 ranged spec. Last can be whatever.

Melee i would want a class that deals with dot dmg and dark afflictions. Kinda like a melee warlock that instead of casting spells, attack mobs with weapons infused with death magic.

Ranged spec would be a like a hunter with casts and summons instead. Would be a bit like a bm hunter and a demonology warlock. No permanent pet and no direct attacks, Instead of casting a fireball in the mobs face, summon a skeleton on a stead charging the mob, instead of a dot that deals x dmg over y seconds. Summon a skeleton archer that deals x dmg over y seconds with arrows. auto attacks could be a zombie hitting the mob. etc etc

[qwerty123456]

Gazlowe has Tinker abilities from HotS in WoW, thus he is a Tinker in lore.



Yeah, that’s not how pocket factory works. The clockwork goblins march to the target, attack the target and explodes. Also a factory doesn’t “float” high in the air.

No where in lore does it state he is a tinker. Plus HOTS is non-cannon. Also considering he isn't wielding his Hots armor that should have been pretty obvious to you. Alexi is a pretty clear example when none of what he does in Hots is shit he does in Starcraft.

How many abilites work exactly as they do in Warcraft 3???? IT still keeps the flavor of the ability. A mobile factory that creates exploding clockworks.

Rock-It! Turret is summoned by Skaggit not Gazlowe.

[McNeil]

This thread makes me wish that I could find some amazing fan-made necromancer concepts that I’ve seen before. Basically it is possible to turn a lot of things into a class aslong as you have the imagination to do so. The necromancers we know now are just casters who specialize in shadow magic and can summon skeletons, but going a little deeper you could give them a melee spec and give them more of a blood or bone vibe to it. I could also see them heal using blood magic, sacrificing their own health or something like that.

[Teriz]

It's not really that hard though. It just needs some creative thinking.

Pocket Factory = Force of Nature
Cluster Rockets = Starfall
Robo Goblin = Act of form switching
Death Lazor = Star Surge
Xplodium Charge = Solar Beam

Different art and animation from what the Druid has, obviously, but keep the same base effect. Does it translate absolutely perfectly? Nope. But more than a few abilities in either WC3 or HotS already do not.

The problem is that those abilities don’t match how the abilities work in WC3, HotS, and WoW. They’re completely different mechanics that would require new art, new animation, new hit boxes, new icons, etc. In short, they would require entirely new abilities for it to work. This is an entirely different situation than Warlock and Necromancer, because in that case, the abilities are already in place.

[jellmoo]

I'd probably say Hurricane would work better as Cluster Rockets since it has a disruption component to it. Starfall could easily be some sort of orbital bombardment ability, say an airstrike from a Gunship or rockets you launch that disappear in the air and come crashing down on the enemies.

I would even go as far as adding back old mechanics like Wild Mushroom if it can be equated to Explodium Charges. Just make it a talent option instead, if need be.

Sure. For the sake of simplicity I'm just keeping it as a direct 1 to 1 situation, where we don't need new ability/talent development to make it functional. With additional development, it could be even more in depth.

[Teriz]

No where in lore does it state he is a tinker. Plus HOTS is non-cannon. Also considering he isn't wielding his Hots armor that should have been pretty obvious to you. Alexi is a pretty clear example when none of what he does in Hots is shit he does in Starcraft.

How many abilites work exactly as they do in Warcraft 3???? IT still keeps the flavor of the ability. A mobile factory that creates exploding clockworks.

Rock-It! Turret is summoned by Skaggit not Gazlowe.

HotS is non cannon, but HotS abilities are routinely moved from HotS to WoW. Thrall’s Sunder ability for example wound up in the Shaman class. Illidan’s The Hunt wound up in the Demon Hunter class. Gazlowe’s Tinker abilities wound up with Gazlowe and his crew in WoW.

How many abilities in WoW work like they do in WC3? Well let’s see....

Death Pact, Death Coil, Breath of Fire, Drunken Brawler, Drunken Haze, Metamorphosis (Warlock version), Divine Shield, Holy Light, Divine Aura, Blizzard, Mana Burn, Fan of Knives, Stampede, Black Arrow, Mana Shield, Rejuvenation, Thorns, inner fire, drain mana, drain life, shockwave, storm bolt, etc...

If so many other WC3 abilities work pretty much the same in WoW, why wouldn’t the Tinker’s? Because you don’t like them?

And yeah, Skaggit is also a Tinker.

[Triceron]

This is an entirely different situation than Warlock and Necromancer, because in that case, the abilities are already in place.

You'd actually need some mechanics tweaks both ways. Wild Imps don't translate perfectly into undead minions unless you're fine with the fantasy of summoning many midget skeleton mages that you implode for big deeps.

I would imagine if this system were put in place, the Warlock itself would need changes to accomodate the Necromancer's style. Imps would have melee variations, for example.

If so many other WC3 abilities work pretty much the same in WoW, why wouldn’t the Tinker’s? Because you don’t like them?

The majority of WC3 abilities weren't inserted as April Fools jokes.

[Teriz]

You'd actually need some mechanics tweaks both ways. Wild Imps don't translate perfectly into undead minions unless you're fine with the fantasy of summoning many midget skeleton mages that you implode for big deeps.

Imps can't be miniature Skeleton mages that self destruct? I don't see how that's lore breaking at all.

I would imagine if this system were put in place, the Warlock itself would need changes to accomodate the Necromancer's style. Imps would have melee variations, for example.

They wouldn't need it. Demonology has quite a few melee demons.

The majority of WC3 abilities weren't inserted as April Fools jokes.

Except we have an example of a WC3 Tinker ability in WoW as well. And yes, it works exactly like its WC3 incarnation.

[jellmoo]

The problem is that those abilities don’t match how the abilities work in WC3, HotS, and WoW. They’re completely different mechanics that would require new art, new animation, new hit boxes, new icons, etc. In short, they would require entirely new abilities for it to work. This is an entirely different situation than Warlock and Necromancer, because in that case, the abilities are already in place.

They don't have to match exactly though. Abilities from WC3 are often different than what classes have in WoW (take Storm, Earth and Fire for example or Metamorphosis) and just about every ability in HotS is different from what's in WoW. And even within WoW, the Death Knights that existed before WotLK had different abilities to what the class had. There is absolutely precedence for the abilities a new class has not to be 100% identical to what's in WC3, HotS or WoW.

And they absolutely require new art and animation. That's what I'm saying. Take the base emchanics of the Druid ability, and replace all the art and animation to correspond with the Tinker. The base mechanics though, could be appropriated pretty easily.

[Simplejakk]

I mean, honestly aren't all classes like this once you boil it down?

DK - Warrior that has access to Warlock abilities flavoured with Necromancy.
Monk - Shaman/Rogue mix that has uses Martial Arts
DH- Rogue that has access to Warlock abilities


Paladin- Warrior that has access to Priest abilities
Druid - Mix of Warrior, Rogue, Mage and Priest in one class. Even uses their resource systems

No, thematically he was describing a direct damage spell that he says is like Shadowbolt, can spread a DoT like a plague, utilizes blood magic, can raise the "dead", wears bone armor, can buff your pets or minions to deal more damage, can sacrifice health to benefit other abilities, can siphon life..I mean, almost 100% of the ideas given are already thematically included within other specs..people just want a class called Necromancer but don't care if absolutely nothing thematically or mechanically is unique..players just want a RDPS that can raise dead instead of demons. The only thing bearing weight is that people want a new RDPS or Healing class.

[lllBlackSunlll]

I made this a while ago for fun, had stats around the Legion meta.
Generally feel Necromancy should be dedicated to Deathknights instead of a new class. If it was a new class it may need to steal too many abilities and playstyle from other classes.
https://i.imgur.com/5m011d1.png