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  1. #1

    Level 60 will be the permanent level cap.

    I don't think I've seen this discussion hashed out since the leveling revamp was announced, and that surprises me.

    So... I don't know where I got the impression, but it's in my head from somewhere that Ion Hazzikostas was put where he is partially to future proof WoW for the perpetuity that, really, they never expected for this game, once and for all. Whether that's his doing or not is debatable, but it's absolutely a thing that's happening.

    As much as he claims not to want things to get too formulaic, you can see these efforts here and there: Flight/Pathfinder is an expected formula now, the patch cycle is relatively standardized with some wiggle room, legacy loot is a hard coded and necessary promise for those playing the transmog long game, and our expectations between main patches and "point five" patches have formed a straight line that has us anticipating timewalking right on time each expansion.

    So let's look at the leveling overhaul in this vein.

    You have your starting area bracket, your "legacy content" bracket, your "immediately prior expansion" designation for a smooth transition for new players being told a flowing story, and then your 10 levels for the current expansion. Pathfinder becomes something you do at the X.2 mark if you wanna fly in current content while it's current, and that achievement becomes of lesser import by the time that content goes legacy if not in the immediately following expansion. That's all very neat, tidy and as soon as we live through it once, going from 60 to 50 to climb it again, it's precedent.

    ...And it potentially happens again, every two years, as everything slots into its new place on the climb from 1-60. On schedule. Forever. Or as long as the game keeps going anyway.

    It's so elegant it seems a sure bet at this point. How the hell does a "level 60-70" 10.0 even fit into this? It doesn't. We'll be 50 again for 10.0, Shadowlands will be the non-optional 10-50 game for new people, and BFA goes fully into the legacy pool of leveling options for veterans.

    That's gotta be how this is going, right?

    Right?

    To be clear, I'm not complaining, but I haven't seen this accepted communally, this... nigh inevitability I'm seeing unfolding here.
    Last edited by Omedon; 2020-08-24 at 05:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Well, I have a feeling they might just do something like that. But I have to imagine that at some point, the scaling and squishing down will get a little difficult to make work?

    Plus it would mean that old content will technically never be outleveled anymore. You would be able to get at most 10 levels above BfA content, 0 over Shadowlands, 0 over any future expansion.

  3. #3
    I would love perma 60 cap, I think even my first post here was about this. But instead of squshing everyone every 2 years, I would keep 1-50 untouched and just squish 50-60 back to level 50.

    In this scenario you would level only chars that you want to play DURING Shadowlands (don't matter if for raids, current transmog or soloing Legion raids). You wouldn't have to level all classes just in case you would play it in the future expacs - if it's 50, it always will be ready for new content.

  4. #4
    I can certainly see something like this being what they're setting up for. I don't quite know how I feel about the idea just yet, but my gut says it'd make sense and that I'd welcome the system.

  5. #5
    It's in the realm of possibility, but it's too early to really say. Also, it doesn't really matter. It puzzles me a lot as to why people care that much about it. Cap is cap, below cap is below cap, levels are scaled down using a formula. As long as there are no major changes to old content requirements it's not that big of a deal.

    The potential problem I see with this would be the confusion this could create among average player who seems to care a lot about "number progression".

  6. #6
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    The only way they will do that is if they create an alternate advancement system. So instead of levels the next expansion starts at level 60+Paragon 1-10. Basically creating new levels that are fundamentally the same but a different starting point. There is no reason why they can't do a level squish every 2-3 expansions. Levels have really been less important in the grand scheme of things and more a way to curate the experience through the new zones prior to End Game.
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  7. #7
    NTY, leveling is part of an RPG

  8. #8
    Thats exactly what Ion said. When WoW was created the developer didn't think about the game 10 years ahead, but now they do. So they setup systems that allows them to have a scalable future for WoW.

    We will be scaled back every new expansion now to level 50. They add the last expansion to the 1-50 leveling pool and the new expansion to 50-60. Infinite system - build to last forever.

  9. #9
    Also ways leveling to 60 wouldn't feel great. Would probably make me feeling like im running in place.

  10. #10
    That wouldn’t work at all

  11. #11
    The only problem I see with it is that classes get some spells (or spell ranks) from 50 to 60. So would you just lose those every expansion and have to regain them?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    NTY, leveling is part of an RPG
    20th level has been the cap for D&D for decades. Nobody seems to mind.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Thats exactly what Ion said. When WoW was created the developer didn't think about the game 10 years ahead, but now they do. So they setup systems that allows them to have a scalable future for WoW.

    We will be scaled back every new expansion now to level 50. They add the last expansion to the 1-50 leveling pool and the new expansion to 50-60. Infinite system - build to last forever.
    I see it like the mage portal room in stormwind or orgrimmar.

    "Choose an expansion and have a great journey to 50."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    NTY, leveling is part of an RPG
    You would still have to level every xpac. Just, EVERY xpac you'd be levelling from 50 to 60. End of xpac ---> Dropped to 50 and everything rescaled.
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  15. #15
    I'd prefer 100 to be honest. 60 is a nostalgic number that just happens to be half where we are currently.

    Some advantages of 100

    - Definitive capstone (reaching 3 digits)
    - Space to have logical talent level spread compared to the wonky talent numbers we currently have (just do 1 every 10 levels from 20 and add 1 more row with the abilities we gained this time around)
    - Fill the extra 40 levels by letting people pick another expansion to level in after their first 40. If they insist on keeping the set path for new players then make their 10-50 a revamped EK/Kalimdor (timeline neutral unlike Cataclysms mess) then 50-90 as the previous expansion.
    - Gives new people time to actually breathe and learn between feature unlocks instead of getting sledged by new things constantly (Vanilla had a lot less to throw at you)

  16. #16
    There is already another leveling system which is reputation, so there is really no point to increase the levels if you are not giving new abilities anymore.

    You should unlock endgame when you complete the main story line of the expansion, the levels means absolutely nothing at this point.

  17. #17
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Was that not ... sort of the point?

    The game isn't going to be "Levels 1-50 + SL". It's most likely going to be "Legacy WoW 1-50 + Current Expansion".. apply to as many expansions as you want. 1-50 is going to become the playground 'do whatever you want because the past doesnt matter' and 50-60 is 'the actual game as it is right now'. It removes any aspect of having to worry about squishes or anything ever again.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Well, I have a feeling they might just do something like that. But I have to imagine that at some point, the scaling and squishing down will get a little difficult to make work?

    Plus it would mean that old content will technically never be outleveled anymore. You would be able to get at most 10 levels above BfA content, 0 over Shadowlands, 0 over any future expansion.
    We'd outscale old content with both item level and probably an aura that would come into effect with the boosted loot aura for older content.

    OP, no. I've thought the same thing. Constant downscaling each expansion now would make sense given how they are redoing the leveling content and don't want people to feel daunted leveling anymore.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    NTY, leveling is part of an RPG
    Nobody is taking away leveling. Yes, thankfully, Shadowlands will finally put some RPG back into leveling.

    OT: I thought it was obvious that we will be squished to 50 and level to 60 in the expansion after SL. It makes perfect sense considering the new starting zone they made for 1-10. This way no matter what expansion is the current 10-50 for new players, it will always make sense in terms of transition.

  20. #20
    Nah I agree. I think they will keep it around that range. If they are smart they codefy the power gain between expansions in such a manner that they can pretty much stop with the constant manual squishes and just flick a switch and everything changes over to the next expansion-season. I proposed that a couple expansions ago when it became clear they would need to squish over and over again. While that doesn't feel very RPGy, it just tackles the reality of a 15 year old game better and hopefully eases the issues that currently arise every time they do it.
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