Page 13 of 26 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
23
... LastLast
  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But why is that 60? Why not 30? Of course there are tons of games for people to pick. That is why you do not sacrifice the design of your game for people that don't want to learn anything about your game. You don't design to hook the superficial because they don't care. You design a good game and people will play it.

    120 is no different then 60 if you know nothing about the game and the requirements needed to reach both.
    I think 60 is a good spot. I think triple digits is a threshold at which a lot of people would look at it and feel daunted. But conversely I think less than 50 wouldn't feel high enough, you still want the cap high enough that a max level character feels like they've progressed a lot. Why 50 instead of 60 I couldn't tell you, 50 is probably where I'd put the cap if I was designing a brand new mmo. But I suppose they wanted something closer to 100 so it felt like an achievement.

    I think you're failing to understand that the entire market is superficial. Blizzard is trying to draw in as many people as possible.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar95 View Post
    I think 60 is a good spot. I think triple digits is a threshold at which a lot of people would look at it and feel daunted. But conversely I think less than 50 wouldn't feel high enough, you still want the cap high enough that a max level character feels like they've progressed a lot. Why 50 instead of 60 I couldn't tell you, 50 is probably where I'd put the cap if I was designing a brand new mmo. But I suppose they wanted something closer to 100 so it felt like an achievement.

    I think you're failing to understand that the entire market is superficial. Blizzard is trying to draw in as many people as possible.
    Not to mention... and I say this as gently and as speculatively as possible, but given the crossroads between "attracting people that will be daunted by 3 digits" and "attracting people that want their *level* to be something to lord over others,"... one of those two mindsets is better for the game. I think it's obvious which one that is. The level cap is a guarantee. It's not a... a division between classes of players. So the idea of an intimidating level cap being some mount everest meant for players to look down on others... is not smart design in a modern game where, as other posters here have intimated, the gaming market is a stack of resumes on a gamer's desk, and resumes with high level caps potentially won't make it past the cover letter in an understandable number of cases.
    Last edited by Omedon; 2020-05-22 at 06:07 PM.

  3. #243
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Switzerland, Geneva
    Posts
    6,999
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Actually it wouldn't. It would require new players to dive head first into addons.
    Actually not. Level is just a meaningless number. You can totally revamp leveling without touching the number shown. It has litteraly no value, it's an empty number.

    You can have a game with 10 level being a terrible grindy experience and another with 500 level being a joyful, fast and fun experience.

    What max number is used litteraly means nothing
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    In all honesty all previous content should scale to max level and reward you with relevant gear if they wanted to have an amazing game, think about how many raids and dungeons that would open up to people and guilds.
    Maybe to some. Personally.. I've been through many of those raids so often that I don't see a lot of fun in repeating them at current content level. Plus the fact that the amount of mechanics increased with each expansion, so a level 120 Molten Core would be a walk in the park as a serious raid.

    But I don't see why it couldn't be some kind of feature. Similar to Chromie Time, but for raids. Optional, though.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Maybe to some. Personally.. I've been through many of those raids so often that I don't see a lot of fun in repeating them at current content level. Plus the fact that the amount of mechanics increased with each expansion, so a level 120 Molten Core would be a walk in the park as a serious raid.

    But I don't see why it couldn't be some kind of feature. Similar to Chromie Time, but for raids. Optional, though.
    All they have to do is add mythic like effects to those older dungeons and raids to increase the difficulty, not having those options is basically saying you don't care about your legacy content.
    Lead Game Designer

    YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/@Nateanderthal

  6. #246
    They also could remove them all together at this point, doesn't make a difference. And if they want to keep the concept of leveling, they can have separate levels for each expansion just like they did with Professions. Every new expansion, being other than max level means nothing. And every level between 110 and 119 also means nothing.

    Since all the content scales with level anyway, there's no reason why we should care about a character being level 57 or 49 or 119. You are either max level or you aren't.

  7. #247
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    All they have to do is add mythic like effects to those older dungeons and raids to increase the difficulty, not having those options is basically saying you don't care about your legacy content.
    This would trivialize the uniqueness of any raid. Sure, one of the many game mechanics of raid is the weekly reset as part of replayability but how do you impose that on a weekly setting? They may try to do this with keystone or Torghast like saling settings. Think about a Torghast like mechanics and scaling difficulty by adding more mechanics to the map or new type of mobs present within the raid zone and a rotating list of boss too.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2020-05-22 at 06:43 PM.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    This would trivialize the uniqueness of a the raid, sure one of the many game mechanics s raid has is a weekly reset as part of replayability but how do you impose that on a weekly setting? They may try to do this with keystone or Torghast like saling settings.
    Actually they could make a unique effect for each of the older raids to add flavor instead of making it generic and a weaker version of it for any dungeons that are in similar locations to a raid.
    Lead Game Designer

    YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/@Nateanderthal

  9. #249
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Actually they could make a unique effect for each of the older raids to add flavor instead of making it generic and a weaker version of it for any dungeons that are in similar locations to a raid.
    I think it would be better if there would be different Invasion within the raid the existing regular packs of mob are invaded by a specific type of groups Ala island expedition and would change different trash packs, mechanics, and different boss type or due to the invasion an effect will be implemented on the mobs or boss with certain affixes.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2020-05-22 at 06:50 PM.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    N'zoth was built up for the entire expansion though. Everything was pretty much his plan to escape from the start. Our very first interaction with the Heart Chamber has an old god minion attacking.
    I rly dont understand peoples expectations for nzoth to be an expansion thing...i must have missed all the angry posts about yogg saron or cthun not getting thir own expansion....why should they treat nzoth more than them?when nzoth was even the lesser of them...also nzoth did get way more atention...cataclysm was basicaly nzoth's doing,and most of the things going on in bfa had nzoth behind it

  11. #251
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,812
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I rly dont understand peoples expectations for nzoth to be an expansion thing...i must have missed all the angry posts about yogg saron or cthun not getting thir own expansion....why should they treat nzoth more than them?when nzoth was even the lesser of them...also nzoth did get way more atention...cataclysm was basicaly nzoth's doing,and most of the things going on in bfa had nzoth behind it
    Yogg'Saron is far from being done and over.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    I think it would be better if there would be different Invasion within the raid the existing regular packs of mob are invaded by a specific type of groups Ala island expedition and would change different trash packs, mechanics, and different boss type or due to the invasion an effect will be implemented on the mobs or boss with certain affixes.
    A flooded black rock mountain would be cool, Kvaldir invasion haha.
    Lead Game Designer

    YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/@Nateanderthal

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Yogg'Saron is far from being done and over.
    same can be said about nzoth,but im talking about as far as their first ingame encounters have gone

  14. #254
    I would rather see Blizzard properly learn how to do AA levels so the cap can stay at 60 and things go up from that without raising the level cap. But knowing them what will probably happen is they'll go back up until they hit 120 or something again and do another squish...

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    I don't think I've seen this discussion hashed out since the leveling revamp was announced, and that surprises me.

    So... I don't know where I got the impression, but it's in my head from somewhere that Ion Hazzikostas was put where he is partially to future proof WoW for the perpetuity that, really, they never expected for this game, once and for all. Whether that's his doing or not is debatable, but it's absolutely a thing that's happening.

    As much as he claims not to want things to get too formulaic, you can see these efforts here and there: Flight/Pathfinder is an expected formula now, the patch cycle is relatively standardized with some wiggle room, legacy loot is a hard coded and necessary promise for those playing the transmog long game, and our expectations between main patches and "point five" patches have formed a straight line that has us anticipating timewalking right on time each expansion.

    So let's look at the leveling overhaul in this vein.

    You have your starting area bracket, your "legacy content" bracket, your "immediately prior expansion" designation for a smooth transition for new players being told a flowing story, and then your 10 levels for the current expansion. Pathfinder becomes something you do at the X.2 mark if you wanna fly in current content while it's current, and that achievement becomes of lesser import by the time that content goes legacy if not in the immediately following expansion. That's all very neat, tidy and as soon as we live through it once, going from 60 to 50 to climb it again, it's precedent.

    ...And it potentially happens again, every two years, as everything slots into its new place on the climb from 1-60. On schedule. Forever. Or as long as the game keeps going anyway.

    It's so elegant it seems a sure bet at this point. How the hell does a "level 60-70" 10.0 even fit into this? It doesn't. We'll be 50 again for 10.0, Shadowlands will be the non-optional 10-50 game for new people, and BFA goes fully into the legacy pool of leveling options for veterans.

    That's gotta be how this is going, right?

    Right?

    To be clear, I'm not complaining, but I haven't seen this accepted communally, this... nigh inevitability I'm seeing unfolding here.
    you want horizontal progress, i get it, it would also create a system where all content can be somewhat relevent instead of new continent and the rest of the game doesnt exist

  16. #256
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I would rather see Blizzard properly learn how to do AA levels so the cap can stay at 60 and things go up from that without raising the level cap. But knowing them what will probably happen is they'll go back up until they hit 120 or something again and do another squish...
    Which is plain stupid and repetitive. Will they be doing something like that for the rest of WoW lifespan?

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Which is plain stupid and repetitive. Will they be doing something like that for the rest of WoW lifespan?
    I mean the way I see it...

    1) They go back up to 120 (or 100 or whatever) and then squish again
    2) They add actual AA levels so there's an indefinite XP grind with minor things that keep you going
    3) Cap at 60 and every expansion from now until the day they shut down will have an expansion-only AP system.

    I have a bad feeling it's going to be #3.

  18. #258
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,812
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    same can be said about nzoth,but im talking about as far as their first ingame encounters have gone
    Both YS & NZ both has visions Incorporated in entire span of their boss fights or as part of the "mechanics"

    YS has more presence in the leveling process and storyline during WotLK with his appearance as mid tier raid encounter while NZoth somehow appears in Storm raid and towards the last tier.

    YS: in Grizzly Hills and Andrassil, Stormy Peaks, Icecrown and Saronite some minor quest relating to him spread across.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I mean the way I see it...

    1) They go back up to 120 (or 100 or whatever) and then squish again
    2) They add actual AA levels so there's an indefinite XP grind with minor things that keep you going
    3) Cap at 60 and every expansion from now until the day they shut down will have an expansion-only AP system.

    I have a bad feeling it's going to be #3.
    Which contradicts the evolution of classics if they will release TBC, WotlK or onwards. Not unless they plan to increase level cap along with Classics which is a logical move and reasoning.

    Stall WoW Classic TBC to be released with 10.0 with 70 cap
    Wow Classic WotLK released together with 11.0 with 80 cap

    The problem would be if the level crunch and the soon to be imposed level cap would clash with the narrative and further development of the later story blocks.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2020-05-22 at 07:37 PM.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I rly dont understand peoples expectations for nzoth to be an expansion thing...i must have missed all the angry posts about yogg saron or cthun not getting thir own expansion....why should they treat nzoth more than them?when nzoth was even the lesser of them...also nzoth did get way more atention...cataclysm was basicaly nzoth's doing,and most of the things going on in bfa had nzoth behind it
    That's exactly why people expected more of N'zoth than the other Old Gods. We had an entire expansion around one of his minions, it's disappointing that he himself was dealt with in a patch. C'thun and Yogg weren't built up for a decade.

  20. #260
    why not add 10 levels of paragon levels per expansion?

    keep physical level cap at 60 , and add paragon talent tree/abilities/ requirements etc etc each expansion add 10 paragon levels.


    it's a successful system in diablo

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •