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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Collected View Post
    50 levels is the sweet spot. So many players have supported the new leveling experience. They're not going to go back to their old ways.
    I consider myself an altoholic. I can't just have one max toon. I love the new leveling experience. Knowing I don't have to go through several expansions to get to max level... is so satisfying and refreshing.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    lets say we do 10 level expansions (personally i prefer 5 because it lets the power jump be lessened)
    Actually, when they tried that, it did the exact opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Mate come on... if I say “Pizza is tasty” then of course it’s an opinion.
    No, if you say "Pizza is tasty" it's a claim or assertion. An opinion would be "i like pizza" or "i find pizza tasty".

    Do i have to explain the difference between those to you?

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Treesap7 View Post
    Oh? So you're also wrong. It seems so obvious to me that the scale of numbers in video games matters and there's so much I could type about it that I don't even know where to begin.

    The only way in which you could be right is if players did not care at all what size the numbers used are. So I'll pose a hypothetical and a couple questions to throw doubt on that claim.

    - Why not just display damage/healing as a % rather than whole numbers? If only the proportion of change matters then this should be acceptable, maybe even desired.

    - Why do games generally use small numbers to begin with? (hint: it's not just technical limitations)

    - Why was there an item level squish and now a level squish? We certainly never reached any technical limits there.



    Sure, that was the case back in MoP, but there's no longer a 32 bit limit on numbers, WoW is a 64 bit game and thus could support numbers into the quintillions, so why do we keep having squishes?

    32 bit limit (MoP): 2,147,483,647

    64 bit limit (BFA): 9,223,372,036,854,775,807
    With an exponential growth in strength, it just takes one more expansion. The point stands.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    With an exponential growth in strength, it just takes one more expansion. The point stands.
    Your Kung-Fu is not strong and this is why I hardly post online, you can't argue with stupid.

    Nevertheless I'll make an attempt here.

    NO your point does not stand, unless the numbers increase by a factor of 4,294,967,298 between expansions, which obviously they don't.

    To demonstrate, let's give a generous estimate that health pools increase by a factor of 100X from the end of one expansion to the next. (they don't. I've gone through some of them and the difference seems to be roughly 10-35X increase)

    If bosses reached the limit of ~2.1 Billion at the end of an expansion (roughly the 32 bit limit) and then increase by X 100 to reach the end of each subsequent expansion we get something like this:

    2,147,483,647 X 100 X 100 x 100 x 100 = 214,748,364,700,000,000 ~ (214 quadrillion)

    That would give us 4 expansions to safely exponentially increase power by a factor of 100 and we would hit the 64 bit limit of ~9.2 quintillion sometime during the fifth expansion AFTER hitting the 2.1 billion boss hp mark. So you can add however many expansions it takes to hit that 32 bit limit after a squish.

    To be more realistic as to the rate boss health pools actually increase in game but still lean on the side of larger power increases let's say end boss health pools increase by a factor of X35 between expansions. Then we get:

    2,147,483,647 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 = 3,947,645,368,529,734,375 ~ (3.94 quintillion)

    That means we could safely have 6 expansions AFTER hitting the 32 bit limit.

    So no, your point does not stand, it does not take just one more expansion to hit the 64 bit limit after hitting the 32 bit limit. I suggest you work on your math skills.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Actually, when they tried that, it did the exact opposite.



    No, if you say "Pizza is tasty" it's a claim or assertion. An opinion would be "i like pizza" or "i find pizza tasty".

    Do i have to explain the difference between those to you?
    Ya so this is false, there's no actual grammar rules for how to phrase an opinion. All that's going on here is you're being a dick.

  6. #506
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  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Treesap7 View Post
    Your Kung-Fu is not strong and this is why I hardly post online, you can't argue with stupid.

    Nevertheless I'll make an attempt here.

    NO your point does not stand, unless the numbers increase by a factor of 4,294,967,298 between expansions, which obviously they don't.

    To demonstrate, let's give a generous estimate that health pools increase by a factor of 100X from the end of one expansion to the next. (they don't. I've gone through some of them and the difference seems to be roughly 10-35X increase)

    If bosses reached the limit of ~2.1 Billion at the end of an expansion (roughly the 32 bit limit) and then increase by X 100 to reach the end of each subsequent expansion we get something like this:

    2,147,483,647 X 100 X 100 x 100 x 100 = 214,748,364,700,000,000 ~ (214 quadrillion)

    That would give us 4 expansions to safely exponentially increase power by a factor of 100 and we would hit the 64 bit limit of ~9.2 quintillion sometime during the fifth expansion AFTER hitting the 2.1 billion boss hp mark. So you can add however many expansions it takes to hit that 32 bit limit after a squish.

    To be more realistic as to the rate boss health pools actually increase in game but still lean on the side of larger power increases let's say end boss health pools increase by a factor of X35 between expansions. Then we get:

    2,147,483,647 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 = 3,947,645,368,529,734,375 ~ (3.94 quintillion)

    That means we could safely have 6 expansions AFTER hitting the 32 bit limit.

    So no, your point does not stand, it does not take just one more expansion to hit the 64 bit limit after hitting the 32 bit limit. I suggest you work on your math skills.
    So we need a squish after 8 expansions instead of 4? That's your point? What a clown fiesta.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    So we need a squish after 8 expansions instead of 4? That's your point? What a clown fiesta.
    No, my point is that Blizzard has done squishes for reasons other than technical limitations.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Actually, when they tried that, it did the exact opposite.



    No, if you say "Pizza is tasty" it's a claim or assertion. An opinion would be "i like pizza" or "i find pizza tasty".

    Do i have to explain the difference between those to you?
    the power gap in Cata wasn't awful

    The MoP gap was because of multiple factors like legendary capes and OP trinkets along with lfr

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    There is already another leveling system which is reputation, so there is really no point to increase the levels if you are not giving new abilities anymore.

    You should unlock endgame when you complete the main story line of the expansion, the levels means absolutely nothing at this point.
    This is by far the simplest and most elegant solution. While the level squish in SL may have been necessary, being downgraded every two years, not only when it comes to gear/skills, but also levels... It would make a quite jarring experience.
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  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    This is by far the simplest and most elegant solution. While the level squish in SL may have been necessary, being downgraded every two years, not only when it comes to gear/skills, but also levels... It would make a quite jarring experience.
    It definitely would be a consistent theme. 1-50 is the starter experience, 51-60 is the current expansion experience - and being level 60 is the new end-game always and forever. So when a new expansion comes out, you don't level up anymore (Unless it's needed) and instead go straight into the new expansions leveling scale.

  12. #512
    I guess we'll see a Paragon-System like Diablo

  13. #513
    I don't know, but it does sound interesting. The only problem I could see is that levelling from 50 to 60 over and over might feel a bit unsatisfying, but on the other hand...it would only happen every two years (or probably more), unless you're really into alts, but in that case, you're probably used to starting over and over already.

    I really like the idea of keeping Chromie-time for levelling to the beginning of the current expansion, it would make alts a lot less tedious, and might get more people to revisit old content. I am currently quite enjoying going back to Draenor and Pandaria and not having to move zones every five minutes because I've outlevelled the content.

    Scaling of old raid and dungeon content is solveable with a (hidden) buff that lets players solo everything but the last expansions content, maybe. So you can run everything up to BfA solo, and BfA with a small group.
    For open-world content...everything but the current expansion being level 50 at most doesn't sound too bad, actually. It's low enough that it's easily soloable, but not so low that it becomes boring. There are a lot of rewards to be had in the endgame content of older expansions, so why not keep that accessible?

  14. #514
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    I really doubt they would lock max level to 60.
    While clearly what the number attached to the max level means nothing anymore. Their is still a imaginary sense of progression that would be lost if each pre patch coming forward take us back to 50.

    It took them 16 years for a level squish, I think we a have some time before another one is needed. And most importantly, they can just tweak the experience gain for the leveling to always be at the same speed with chromie time (so that when next prepatch comes, you can level 1->60 doing just one Chromie zone at the same speed as current 1->50)

    And since they will most likely never add any new talents rows, there is also no need for a 10 level jump. Going forward I think a 5 level jump is what would be best. Just for the feeling of progression and it even integrates well with how leveling is now (3-5 zones in expansions "continent", so a bit more than 1 level per zone sounds good to me)

    With 5 level gaps it will take ~8 years to reach max level 80 (accounting for ~2 years expansions). At that point, we could squish back to 50 if wow's still alive.
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  15. #515
    When the numbers get huge, they stop making sense to our intuition. This especially goes for new players who aren't already enmeshed in the world of fansites, WoW YouTube, and Discord servers.

    It's already a problem when people start playing and realize they'd need to go through 120 levels to play with their friends, over half of which are done in zones with outdated, grindy quests and dungeons that the average player is so bored of that they'll vote to kick anyone who gets lost or does bad damage. It makes people dislike the game and its community before even getting to experience the strong points.

    And then it comes to damage numbers and how little sense they make when they get huge. A tooltip may say an attack does 30k damage when it regularly hits for 200k. Players went from doing 100k DPS at level 100 to 2M DPS in Antorus. If they didn't squish anything, we'd be doing billions by now and just filling up the screen with these huge numbers on every aoe pack.

  16. #516
    In my original WoW manual from 2005 it says that the future level cap will be higher than 60, so you are wrong!

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    The aesthetic and feelings beside, there is an actual technical limitation of how high the numbers can go. You guys seem to have forgotten or not noticed, but the end of Throne and complete Siege was built around the maximal possible health pool of bosses. This is why Garrosh heals himself 5 times back to full. Simply because they couldn't increase his HP anymore.
    That was because the client was still 32 bit. That issue does not exist anymore because eveything has been increased upgraded to 64-bit. That hasn't been an issue for some time and multiple expansions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    It definitely would be a consistent theme. 1-50 is the starter experience, 51-60 is the current expansion experience - and being level 60 is the new end-game always and forever. So when a new expansion comes out, you don't level up anymore (Unless it's needed) and instead go straight into the new expansions leveling scale.
    Consistent does not = better in this case. Progression is completely killed off. There is absolutely no point in leveling if you are going to be immediately reset to 50. You can deal with increasing the cap every expansion until 100 then resetting back to 50 again. Keep some form of progression over multiple expansions.

  18. #518
    They are going to go back to 5 level expansions I am guessing, it makes the most sense with this squish.
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  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    That was because the client was still 32 bit. That issue does not exist anymore because eveything has been increased upgraded to 64-bit. That hasn't been an issue for some time and multiple expansions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Consistent does not = better in this case. Progression is completely killed off. There is absolutely no point in leveling if you are going to be immediately reset to 50. You can deal with increasing the cap every expansion until 100 then resetting back to 50 again. Keep some form of progression over multiple expansions.
    I meant where you stay at level 60 and never delevel. Instead they only level us up when new content warrenting it exists. Like a new talent row, more spell ranks, things like that. Then when the previous expansion is scaled back down on expansion release you stay at 60 and progress sooner on endgame borrowed powers and such. At least that'd be my guess if it happened.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    There is absolutely no point in leveling if you are going to be immediately reset to 50.
    Um... well... the uh... endgame stuff... is at 60. That's a pretty good reason, isn't it? I mean if you need your "leveling to matter," within the model I've posited you can just say at 50 forever and sit on those hard earned levels that are never going away. And miss the endgame.

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