I can't be the only one predicting a permanent level 60 cap

[Ragedaug]

Sounds like a mess. What about in PVP?

Yeah, it's a mess, but it keeps you from having to squish the gear constantly. In PVP, I would tune all gear from previous expansions to the same base power level, and gear from the current expansion would scale up from there, but at a much smaller scale than the power scaling for PVE content.

[GreenJesus]

I thought it was pretty clear how Blizzard designed this system to be able to squish each expansion. They have done so many stat squishes by now that people complaining about "but level 60 is lower than level 70" are pointless. Its clear that when next expansion releases, shadowlands will become legacy content that you can then choose to level in just like BFA. Maybe they increase the cap to 70 and then have legacy go up to 60. Idk. But its clear that this tech/system will be the way going forward. Blizzard has already shown muktiple times that some perceived sentimental value to inconsequential numbers like level or damage numbers or health points or item levels doesn't mean anything as long as the end output in terms of performance is the same.

[Treesap7]

Blizzard has already shown muktiple times that some perceived sentimental value to inconsequential numbers like level or damage numbers or health points or item levels doesn't mean anything as long as the end output in terms of performance is the same.

Wrong. Blizzard has shown that it DOES matter and that players care about the scale at which numbers are used/displayed in WoW.

[Omedon]

Wrong. Blizzard has shown that it DOES matter and that players care about the scale at which numbers are used/displayed in WoW.

I'm with GreenJesus on this one. I'd like to think there's a reasonable, happy (and thus quiet) majority that don't care how many digits their crits are so long as they move enemy health in the proportionately proper way.

Let's remember, we here on fansites are the true minority!

[Clozer]

I'm with GreenJesus on this one. I'd like to think there's a reasonable, happy (and thus quiet) majority that don't care how many digits their crits are so long as they move enemy health in the proportionately proper way.

Let's remember, we here on fansites are the true minority!

The aesthetic and feelings beside, there is an actual technical limitation of how high the numbers can go. You guys seem to have forgotten or not noticed, but the end of Throne and complete Siege was built around the maximal possible health pool of bosses. This is why Garrosh heals himself 5 times back to full. Simply because they couldn't increase his HP anymore.

So ilvl tuning as is right now requires every 2 or 3 expansion a massive squish. Then you might as well just do it with every expansion and keep things clean.

[Treesap7]

I'm with GreenJesus on this one. I'd like to think there's a reasonable, happy (and thus quiet) majority that don't care how many digits their crits are so long as they move enemy health in the proportionately proper way.

Let's remember, we here on fansites are the true minority!

Oh? So you're also wrong. It seems so obvious to me that the scale of numbers in video games matters and there's so much I could type about it that I don't even know where to begin.

The only way in which you could be right is if players did not care at all what size the numbers used are. So I'll pose a hypothetical and a couple questions to throw doubt on that claim.

- Why not just display damage/healing as a % rather than whole numbers? If only the proportion of change matters then this should be acceptable, maybe even desired.

- Why do games generally use small numbers to begin with? (hint: it's not just technical limitations)

- Why was there an item level squish and now a level squish? We certainly never reached any technical limits there.

The aesthetic and feelings beside, there is an actual technical limitation of how high the numbers can go. You guys seem to have forgotten or not noticed, but the end of Throne and complete Siege was built around the maximal possible health pool of bosses. This is why Garrosh heals himself 5 times back to full. Simply because they couldn't increase his HP anymore.

So ilvl tuning as is right now requires every 2 or 3 expansion a massive squish. Then you might as well just do it with every expansion and keep things clean.

Sure, that was the case back in MoP, but there's no longer a 32 bit limit on numbers, WoW is a 64 bit game and thus could support numbers into the quintillions, so why do we keep having squishes?

32 bit limit (MoP): 2,147,483,647

64 bit limit (BFA): 9,223,372,036,854,775,807

[blankfaced]

If they do plan on doing a squish every expansion they better get a hell of a lot better at balancing it all out. This is pathetic.

[Weeps]

50 levels is the sweet spot. So many players have supported the new leveling experience. They're not going to go back to their old ways.

I consider myself an altoholic. I can't just have one max toon. I love the new leveling experience. Knowing I don't have to go through several expansions to get to max level... is so satisfying and refreshing.

[huth]

lets say we do 10 level expansions (personally i prefer 5 because it lets the power jump be lessened)

Actually, when they tried that, it did the exact opposite.

Mate come on... if I say “Pizza is tasty” then of course it’s an opinion.

No, if you say "Pizza is tasty" it's a claim or assertion. An opinion would be "i like pizza" or "i find pizza tasty".

Do i have to explain the difference between those to you?

[Clozer]

Oh? So you're also wrong. It seems so obvious to me that the scale of numbers in video games matters and there's so much I could type about it that I don't even know where to begin.

The only way in which you could be right is if players did not care at all what size the numbers used are. So I'll pose a hypothetical and a couple questions to throw doubt on that claim.

- Why not just display damage/healing as a % rather than whole numbers? If only the proportion of change matters then this should be acceptable, maybe even desired.

- Why do games generally use small numbers to begin with? (hint: it's not just technical limitations)

- Why was there an item level squish and now a level squish? We certainly never reached any technical limits there.



Sure, that was the case back in MoP, but there's no longer a 32 bit limit on numbers, WoW is a 64 bit game and thus could support numbers into the quintillions, so why do we keep having squishes?

32 bit limit (MoP): 2,147,483,647

64 bit limit (BFA): 9,223,372,036,854,775,807

With an exponential growth in strength, it just takes one more expansion. The point stands.

[Treesap7]

With an exponential growth in strength, it just takes one more expansion. The point stands.

Your Kung-Fu is not strong and this is why I hardly post online, you can't argue with stupid.

Nevertheless I'll make an attempt here.

NO your point does not stand, unless the numbers increase by a factor of 4,294,967,298 between expansions, which obviously they don't.

To demonstrate, let's give a generous estimate that health pools increase by a factor of 100X from the end of one expansion to the next. (they don't. I've gone through some of them and the difference seems to be roughly 10-35X increase)

If bosses reached the limit of ~2.1 Billion at the end of an expansion (roughly the 32 bit limit) and then increase by X 100 to reach the end of each subsequent expansion we get something like this:

2,147,483,647 X 100 X 100 x 100 x 100 = 214,748,364,700,000,000 ~ (214 quadrillion)

That would give us 4 expansions to safely exponentially increase power by a factor of 100 and we would hit the 64 bit limit of ~9.2 quintillion sometime during the fifth expansion AFTER hitting the 2.1 billion boss hp mark. So you can add however many expansions it takes to hit that 32 bit limit after a squish.

To be more realistic as to the rate boss health pools actually increase in game but still lean on the side of larger power increases let's say end boss health pools increase by a factor of X35 between expansions. Then we get:

2,147,483,647 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 = 3,947,645,368,529,734,375 ~ (3.94 quintillion)

That means we could safely have 6 expansions AFTER hitting the 32 bit limit.

So no, your point does not stand, it does not take just one more expansion to hit the 64 bit limit after hitting the 32 bit limit. I suggest you work on your math skills.

[Shakou]

Actually, when they tried that, it did the exact opposite.



No, if you say "Pizza is tasty" it's a claim or assertion. An opinion would be "i like pizza" or "i find pizza tasty".

Do i have to explain the difference between those to you?

Ya so this is false, there's no actual grammar rules for how to phrase an opinion. All that's going on here is you're being a dick.

[Splenda]

Let me remind you that this isn't the place to argue about grammar or be rude to each other, thank you.

[Clozer]

Your Kung-Fu is not strong and this is why I hardly post online, you can't argue with stupid.

Nevertheless I'll make an attempt here.

NO your point does not stand, unless the numbers increase by a factor of 4,294,967,298 between expansions, which obviously they don't.

To demonstrate, let's give a generous estimate that health pools increase by a factor of 100X from the end of one expansion to the next. (they don't. I've gone through some of them and the difference seems to be roughly 10-35X increase)

If bosses reached the limit of ~2.1 Billion at the end of an expansion (roughly the 32 bit limit) and then increase by X 100 to reach the end of each subsequent expansion we get something like this:

2,147,483,647 X 100 X 100 x 100 x 100 = 214,748,364,700,000,000 ~ (214 quadrillion)

That would give us 4 expansions to safely exponentially increase power by a factor of 100 and we would hit the 64 bit limit of ~9.2 quintillion sometime during the fifth expansion AFTER hitting the 2.1 billion boss hp mark. So you can add however many expansions it takes to hit that 32 bit limit after a squish.

To be more realistic as to the rate boss health pools actually increase in game but still lean on the side of larger power increases let's say end boss health pools increase by a factor of X35 between expansions. Then we get:

2,147,483,647 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 x 35 = 3,947,645,368,529,734,375 ~ (3.94 quintillion)

That means we could safely have 6 expansions AFTER hitting the 32 bit limit.

So no, your point does not stand, it does not take just one more expansion to hit the 64 bit limit after hitting the 32 bit limit. I suggest you work on your math skills.

So we need a squish after 8 expansions instead of 4? That's your point? What a clown fiesta.

[Treesap7]

So we need a squish after 8 expansions instead of 4? That's your point? What a clown fiesta.

No, my point is that Blizzard has done squishes for reasons other than technical limitations.

[Revamp Man]

Actually, when they tried that, it did the exact opposite.



No, if you say "Pizza is tasty" it's a claim or assertion. An opinion would be "i like pizza" or "i find pizza tasty".

Do i have to explain the difference between those to you?

the power gap in Cata wasn't awful

The MoP gap was because of multiple factors like legendary capes and OP trinkets along with lfr

[Soon-TM]

There is already another leveling system which is reputation, so there is really no point to increase the levels if you are not giving new abilities anymore.

You should unlock endgame when you complete the main story line of the expansion, the levels means absolutely nothing at this point.

This is by far the simplest and most elegant solution. While the level squish in SL may have been necessary, being downgraded every two years, not only when it comes to gear/skills, but also levels... It would make a quite jarring experience.

[PenguinChan]

This is by far the simplest and most elegant solution. While the level squish in SL may have been necessary, being downgraded every two years, not only when it comes to gear/skills, but also levels... It would make a quite jarring experience.

It definitely would be a consistent theme. 1-50 is the starter experience, 51-60 is the current expansion experience - and being level 60 is the new end-game always and forever. So when a new expansion comes out, you don't level up anymore (Unless it's needed) and instead go straight into the new expansions leveling scale.

[Chaoshanki]

I guess we'll see a Paragon-System like Diablo

[LauraHydra1]

I don't know, but it does sound interesting. The only problem I could see is that levelling from 50 to 60 over and over might feel a bit unsatisfying, but on the other hand...it would only happen every two years (or probably more), unless you're really into alts, but in that case, you're probably used to starting over and over already.

I really like the idea of keeping Chromie-time for levelling to the beginning of the current expansion, it would make alts a lot less tedious, and might get more people to revisit old content. I am currently quite enjoying going back to Draenor and Pandaria and not having to move zones every five minutes because I've outlevelled the content.

Scaling of old raid and dungeon content is solveable with a (hidden) buff that lets players solo everything but the last expansions content, maybe. So you can run everything up to BfA solo, and BfA with a small group.
For open-world content...everything but the current expansion being level 50 at most doesn't sound too bad, actually. It's low enough that it's easily soloable, but not so low that it becomes boring. There are a lot of rewards to be had in the endgame content of older expansions, so why not keep that accessible?