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  1. #21
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyuri Geller View Post
    It's very simple:

    Unlock it in the form of an achievement if you have completed every quest in every zone for the first character you level through.

    After you earn the account wide achievement, every new character can automatically fly if they have trained flying.

    Going forward, every expansion should stick to this logic.
    thats just.... how it is now... but its introduced part way into the expansion and not at launch..

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    This isn't a solution because because their isn't a problem. Pathfinder is fine as is. The issue is laziness and that is a 'you" problem, not a game problem.
    I am fine wiht pathfinder, but i do think it should be added in the first major patch, not the second.
    or if a midground the second minor patch (so 9.1.5)
    this way all the content has been done to full.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnosh View Post
    If Pathfinder were to be removed, then introduce more looming aerial threats like in the N'Zoth invasions or introduce a stamina/fatigue bar that inevitably forces your flying mount to land and recuperate (higher ranks of flying increase flying mount stamina as well as flight speed).
    and people would complain even more. have you seen the madness over the nzoth worms? imagine that everywhere.

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
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    I would like that very much. Much better than waiting for stupid pathfinder achievements to become avaiable. Players should be able to start working on it as soon as they step into Shadowlands and not a year later.

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  3. #23
    Scarab Lord AbsolutVodka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    A little more irony...I unsubbed the last 3 Xpacs until the achievement to unlock flying is available. I'll play until Pathfinder I is complete, then unsub and return several months later, at which point my desire to play the Xpac is greatly reduced as I haven't been thinking about it as much for several months. So their choice to keep us grounded seems to have backfired on them (at least in my case).
    That's a pretty common thing to do also. It's ridiculous to call players lazy because they want to traverse the world quicker. Time is a precious thing to everyone, so fuck me for trying to get to in-game tasks a little quicker with less hassle. Even worse when the excuse becomes, "well you just want content spoon-fed to you and if you're finishing the game quicker, you no longer have incentive to play more". Pfft. Let the player decide for themselves the incentive and how much they want to play and how they want to allocate their time. It's such weird reasoning to say, "well the player will have less to do", in a game that has an endless supply of content to chase.

    I've done exactly what you've done. Sub to get pathfinder and then be done until the next pathfinder with actual flying is introduced. It's just so boring to deal with daze, agro, weird pathing, getting stuck in combat, slow rolling your way across large land masses just for the sake of spending more time in-game, because of someone else's definition of pseudo-fun.

  4. #24
    I think not being able to fly, really makes the game play experience better.

    Both in Legion & BFA, being grounded was a great experience.
    Learning the lay of the land, best paths & shortcuts. Using flightpaths & other means of travel. Goblins glider's, toy's & tricks to get around is fun.

    But it does get old, eventually, you should get flying. But not too early.
    If it was up to me, I would just enable flying in a patch when the time is right.

    I don't mind Pathfinder so much really, it's not a bad idea.
    But the timing is wrong, the problem is it hits you with another time-gated grind, when you are already ready to start flying.
    Frankly, the requirements for Pathfinder should be possible to meet, before the achievement becomes available.
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  5. #25
    If you guys were in charge of things at Blizzard, players would Unsubscribe in the first month.

    The whole point of Subscription-based MMO's is to design content in a way that it lasts for a couple of months, at least. That's the whole point. To keep people Subscribed for as long as possible.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyuri Geller View Post
    It's very simple:

    Unlock it in the form of an achievement if you have completed every quest in every zone for the first character you level through.
    It's very simply awful.

    That encourages players to rush through quest content instead of taking their time to enjoy it. It defeats the entire point of withholding flying in the first place - namely to get us to immerse ourselves in exploring and discovering the new areas instead of skipping over most of it from the air. It still boggles my mind that they did this in BfA by essentially making flying unlock immediately after getting to revered in Naz'jatar and Mechagon.

    A far more logical approach is to have players required to complete a pathfinder type achievement, but give us plenty of time to get through it, then open flying with a simple final step that is unlocked at a fixed time later in the patch. Preferably a lot sooner than they did it in BfA of course - like 3-6 months in at most.

    Alternatively they can just drop the idea of no flying altogether, since it isn't anywhere close to the prime problem that they've managed to delude themselves into thinking it is.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflakesz View Post
    I think not being able to fly, really makes the game play experience better.

    Both in Legion & BFA, being grounded was a great experience.
    Learning the lay of the land, best paths & shortcuts. Using flightpaths & other means of travel. Goblins glider's, toy's & tricks to get around is fun.

    But it does get old, eventually, you should get flying. But not too early.
    If it was up to me, I would just enable flying in a patch when the time is right.

    I don't mind Pathfinder so much really, it's not a bad idea.
    But the timing is wrong, the problem is it hits you with another time-gated grind, when you are already ready to start flying.
    Frankly, the requirements for Pathfinder should be possible to meet, before the achievement becomes available.
    Fully agree. With flying you could just put all the WQ and stuff in one room. Done. You completely skip the world. At some point you visited everything and have done everything. Then Pathfinder comes along.

    Granted i think X.2 is too late. X.1 would be better. I have done everything 10000 times over when 8.1 hits. At that point it gets a bit annoying. But yes for the first few month you should be grounded.

  8. #28
    It just needs to be there at launch.
    I don't care which grind they want to pick. I want to be able to fly once i do that. I don't want to be grounded for a year wasting my time seeing the same places a millions times even though i already did the grind, while they pick yet another grind to let me fly. No one's portfolio is worth that.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-04-29 at 08:21 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post

    I would counter that by saying, it is not.
    I mean, but it is.

    Removing half of the requirements from the achievement to get flying is equally as silly to me as asking for a set of gear to be mailed to you for hitting max level so you can start raiding immediately. It sounds kinda pissbaby and childish, no? I think so at least.

  10. #30
    If Blizzard were to get rid of Pathfinder, I would be worried about the consequences of that. I think we'd see a bunch of WQs where the mobs were in the basement of some building or deep in some cave, or you'd have more flying threats like the debuff worms in Uldum/Vale. Maybe that's an alright compromise, but I wouldn't love that.

    If you kept Pathfinder but didn't timegate it, it would end up being such a grind that there would be twice the rage about Pathfinder that there is now.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    "Every quest in every zone" - yeah right...good luck with that....even now with several alts levelled and all reps at exalted several times over...I have not bothered to find and do "Every quest in every zone". I think you underestimate how many quests there really always are...

    Also:
    -you are screwing ppl who like to level through 5 mans
    -you are screwing ppl who like to level through pvp

    Yeah..as usual you gys with the "simple and easy" methods are not following your thoughts through and there are reasons why you aren't a dev. And that is because - as the other posters said - Blizzard WANTS you to stay on the ground. It is deliberate. They don't due it because they have no solution, this IS their solution.

    Ofc you can dislike it, but suggesting something different isn't solving anything, because as of the last few x-pacs, it is how Blizzard intended it...and since they keep repeating it...I guess they think it works as intended.
    I was furious when Blizzard came out with the first pathfinder requirement in WoD. I had leveled mostly through dungeons so I didn't have a single zone achieve. I had to go back to all the zones and basically re-do leveling on my max level character, which was retarded. You also had to have gotten 100 treasures, and I had... 2.

    The existence of pathfinder took all joy out of leveling for me. I now level with one screen open to wowhead so that I can be sure to get whatever inane loremaster achievement I know blizz will require for something down the road, and I'm constantly checking to make sure that I get the right quests done. It went from exploratory to on rails. Pathfinder sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    A little more irony...I unsubbed the last 3 Xpacs until the achievement to unlock flying is available. I'll play until Pathfinder I is complete, then unsub and return several months later, at which point my desire to play the Xpac is greatly reduced as I haven't been thinking about it as much for several months. So their choice to keep us grounded seems to have backfired on them (at least in my case).
    That's true of a lot of things they did. I typically play a couple characters to keep things interesting, but in Legion, they basically forced you to keep playing your main for legiondaries. At one point I leveled an alt, and once I hit max level I started to realize all the shit I would have to wade through to make it viable, and I just unsubbed. I'm feeling similar right now about BFA - I got one character through the initial max level shitshow grind, and I started another and I just can't bring myself to go through it again, so I'm mostly just playing my main and fooling around, and probably eventually gonna unsub.

    The grinds kept people around for the short term but drive people away once they get burned out.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    This isn't a solution because because their isn't a problem. Pathfinder is fine as is. The issue is laziness and that is a 'you" problem, not a game problem.
    Well shit. I didn't know it was YOU that spoke for every one in game.

    Can you tell me, what is our opinion of PVP? What about professions? I was wondering earlier and clearly i apparently need some scrub online to form my opinions for me.

    The fact is, Pathfinder isn't "fine". It was the easiest compromise between Blizzard not wanting flying and players not willing to keep playing if they removed it.

    Pathfinder is often implemented way later than it should be. It is usually with the x.2 patch that we finally get to fly which is usually 9-12 months into an expansion. That is a long time of being stuck moving about the world slowly for no reason . This will be made worse given all the reviews of Revendreth and how vertical it is. Lots of folks hated High mountain because of how much of a pain it was to traverse the zone for quests. Revendreth seems to be even worse in terms of the verticality.

    So your crappy opinion seems like a 'you' problem, not a 'rest of the player base' problem.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I'm continually amazed that people on this forum can spin "I don't want to spend my gaming time doing pointless world quests" as "laziness". Seriously, it's a game, and the quests are stupid easy. How can anyone possibly, possibly think that they're not "lazy" because they are willing to sit at a computer for hours a day for weeks on end grinding? How can you be so lost?

    Wake up man.
    It's not like the shit you do to get Pathfinder only gives Pathfinder. Maybe an MMO isn't for you.

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord AbsolutVodka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kynario View Post
    If you guys were in charge of things at Blizzard, players would Unsubscribe in the first month.

    The whole point of Subscription-based MMO's is to design content in a way that it lasts for a couple of months, at least. That's the whole point. To keep people Subscribed for as long as possible.
    I don't understand why this is a point brought up from a player. You aren't a shareholder, so what does subscription and time metrics matter to you? I know it's a logical point to make, but when discussing what you would like out of the game, or any topic where a solution is sought, why bring in the mentality of a suit?

  15. #35
    Considering all the zones are separated out i dont think this is a terrble idea, or a basis of an idea at the very least.

  16. #36
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I was furious when Blizzard came out with the first pathfinder requirement in WoD. I had leveled mostly through dungeons so I didn't have a single zone achieve. I had to go back to all the zones and basically re-do leveling on my max level character, which was retarded. You also had to have gotten 100 treasures, and I had... 2.

    The existence of pathfinder took all joy out of leveling for me. I now level with one screen open to wowhead so that I can be sure to get whatever inane loremaster achievement I know blizz will require for something down the road, and I'm constantly checking to make sure that I get the right quests done. It went from exploratory to on rails. Pathfinder sucks.
    Guess you are then one of the guys who would also be burned by OPs suggestions.

    But yeah...I wonder why Blizzard doesn't put these requirements out in the open IN GAME. They can do a pop up of "Visit the Black Prince" and shit - so why not do that with Pathfinder too.

    Even better....offer options. Not just "storyline done" (although it really really makes sense to play through a story) but...hell...100 5 mans or 100 BGs for those who hate questing and gathering rep...maybe?

    End of the day....they will delay it to a fixed date. I had my Part 1 req done a long time ago and then they (not unexpectedly) sprung part 2 on us.

    Like I said...love it, hate it, don't care. They want us grounded for x amount of time and add a requirement that you can casually get in that time. But like I said...why not make it clear IN GAME? Why always have to use external sites for everything?

  17. #37
    I am Murloc!
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    just a reminder: TBC was fine with flying because the interesting areas were not accessible by ground mounts at all, thus also max lvl restricted. nothing forbids blizzard does the same again and at max lvl like outland.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Guess you are then one of the guys who would also be burned by OPs suggestions.

    But yeah...I wonder why Blizzard doesn't put these requirements out in the open IN GAME. They can do a pop up of "Visit the Black Prince" and shit - so why not do that with Pathfinder too.

    Even better....offer options. Not just "storyline done" (although it really really makes sense to play through a story) but...hell...100 5 mans or 100 BGs for those who hate questing and gathering rep...maybe?

    End of the day....they will delay it to a fixed date. I had my Part 1 req done a long time ago and then they (not unexpectedly) sprung part 2 on us.

    Like I said...love it, hate it, don't care. They want us grounded for x amount of time and add a requirement that you can casually get in that time. But like I said...why not make it clear IN GAME? Why always have to use external sites for everything?
    Absolutely! If there was a way to do it in dungeons I would be fine. Even if it took longer - dungeons are fun, world quests are stupid. I literally cannot think of a worse way to spend time in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  19. #39
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    Sooo... pathfinder?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  20. #40
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsolutVodka View Post
    I don't understand why this is a point brought up from a player. You aren't a shareholder, so what does subscription and time metrics matter to you? I know it's a logical point to make, but when discussing what you would like out of the game, or any topic where a solution is sought, why bring in the mentality of a suit?
    Considering activities were drawn out and repetitive already before Blizzard went public...weren't devs always "suits" too? They always wanted you to play their game as long as possible, because as long as you play, you pay. And I swear there was less to do (unless you raided) before Blizzard even merged with Activision.

    This is IMHO especially true with sub games. With offline games, they just want you to spend 50 dollars on the box and don't care how long you play. They have your money and will never get more.

    Then there is this weird time where you bought the box in D2 and D3 and OW etc..but still get to play "for free" on their servers. Never figured out why they do that when they are all suits. But I guess it is an investment...that if you like it you buy more of their next product

    So by that logic...any game company was always "suits". Everyone likes to make money. I like it. I wish I had more..could make more. But I am just too dumb.

    But I guess ppl like to see the past with rose tinted glasses and just think a Richard Garriot deserved his millions or a John Romero his Ferraries, because they came from ..dunno? Luck? Passion? Being at the right place in the right time?

    So..hey..stop hating on Bill Gates then - or Zuckerberg....just some schmucks who struck it lucky back in the day. Only the new guys like Kotik or Bezos are manipulating evil basterds..right? It is bad shit in 2020 and was all innocent in 1990.

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