Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellows View Post
    If Blizzard were to get rid of Pathfinder, I would be worried about the consequences of that. I think we'd see a bunch of WQs where the mobs were in the basement of some building or deep in some cave, or you'd have more flying threats like the debuff worms in Uldum/Vale. Maybe that's an alright compromise, but I wouldn't love that.

    If you kept Pathfinder but didn't timegate it, it would end up being such a grind that there would be twice the rage about Pathfinder that there is now.
    That already exists. Because world quests are so easy and people were finishing them so quick, they decided with BFA that they had to make them super annoying.

    So now here's a typical world quest experience for me:

    Run to the spot, there's a yellow dot, but I don't know how to get to it. Go to wowhead, look up quest, find the comment "the path to the top starts at 58, 31" or "the cave entrance is at "22, 34". /way 22, 34. Go inside wipe the floor with the mob, quest done.

    The other thing they did was have quests where the mobs spawn on a fixed timer so you have to stand there and wait, you can't just aoe kill them all at once. It's fascinating that they seem laser focused on making things take time, but seem to have no idea that it's just shit and a terrible experience for the player. No one is excited by "one shot mob... wait 15 seconds... one shot mob... wait 15 seconds". Like, seriously, are they trolling?
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  2. #42
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The forums
    Posts
    34,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Absolutely! If there was a way to do it in dungeons I would be fine. Even if it took longer - dungeons are fun, world quests are stupid. I literally cannot think of a worse way to spend time in the game.
    Weeeellllll....I always like to add "IMHO". I find random 5 mans with strangers painful. It was ok with guildmates though. Still prefer my solo stuff these days and questing (you can get almost to revered with quests...not really that many WQs needed)

    But yeah...I give it to you...why not go back to an alternate way to also award rep in 5 mans and BGs....if rep is what limits Pathfinder. If they are concerned of ppl grinding the shit to death, set the daily possible rep gain at 1500 for your first of the week and 500 per day after...or 750...or whatnot. Something to reflect what WQ / Emissary activity would give.

  3. #43
    Scarab Lord AbsolutVodka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    4,108
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Considering activities were drawn out and repetitive already before Blizzard went public...weren't devs always "suits" too? They always wanted you to play their game as long as possible, because as long as you play, you pay. And I swear there was less to do (unless you raided) before Blizzard even merged with Activision.

    This is IMHO especially true with sub games. With offline games, they just want you to spend 50 dollars on the box and don't care how long you play. They have your money and will never get more.

    Then there is this weird time where you bought the box in D2 and D3 and OW etc..but still get to play "for free" on their servers. Never figured out why they do that when they are all suits. But I guess it is an investment...that if you like it you buy more of their next product

    So by that logic...any game company was always "suits". Everyone likes to make money. I like it. I wish I had more..could make more. But I am just too dumb.

    But I guess ppl like to see the past with rose tinted glasses and just think a Richard Garriot deserved his millions or a John Romero his Ferraries, because they came from ..dunno? Luck? Passion? Being at the right place in the right time?

    So..hey..stop hating on Bill Gates then - or Zuckerberg....just some schmucks who struck it lucky back in the day. Only the new guys like Kotik or Bezos are manipulating evil basterds..right? It is bad shit in 2020 and was all innocent in 1990.
    I'm stating that from the position of a player, it shouldn't matter how much time another player spends in-game or how they use their time relative to their subscription. How another player spends their time in game shouldn't be of consequence or concern to you and your in-game time's fun value. And when discussing how some mechanics/systems should work in-game and subsequent changes to make a system more appropriate and engaging for a larger portion of the playerbase, the argument of "well how can this solution extend subscription time" shouldn't be coming from a player.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Kynario View Post
    If you guys were in charge of things at Blizzard, players would Unsubscribe in the first month.

    The whole point of Subscription-based MMO's is to design content in a way that it lasts for a couple of months, at least. That's the whole point. To keep people Subscribed for as long as possible.
    I think you're wrong. For a subscription based MMO to be successful in the long term, they have to design content that people actually like. A big part of Blizz's problem - and declining subs - over the past few years is that a lot of the content they've produced - islands, warfronts, garrison, world quests - just isn't very good and is clearly designed as a time sink with fun being deprioritized.

    At the same time as they did this, they have frequently de-emphasized content that people do like. Dungeons were completely irrelevant after the first 3 weeks of mop and wod (until they released mythic difficulty). The power acquisition curve is ludicrously steep and it's far too easy to get gear. I had a character go from item level 260 to 415 in a week upon hitting level 120 - at which point the game still wanted me to go back and grind content designed for people at item level 330. That's just stupid. It's bandaid upon bandaid. "Hey, people want constant rewards" - Blizz responds by giving people tons of gear. "Hey, people are gearing up too fast" - Blizz responds by adding a world quest grind that most people already outgear. The game design is absurd.

    I don't see people here saying, "hey, give us less to do". They're saying, "hey, stop wasting our time with bullshit, and get back to the good stuff that's actually at the roots of wow."
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    It's not like the shit you do to get Pathfinder only gives Pathfinder. Maybe an MMO isn't for you.
    It depends on what part of pathfinder you're looking at. If you leveled through PVP or dungeons, doing the questlines give you nothing valuable because you'll probably have better gear from PVP and dungeons. Same thing with world quests. Week 1 I was max level and had full HC dungeon gear and started doing mythic dungeons. Through dungeons and islands I was at the weekly AP softcap so doing world quests gave me nothing useful and I did them just for the rep.

    In my opinion doing the main quest and explore all zones is fine. Doing 100 WQ is just tedious and unnecessary especially if there's a fixed amount of quests you can do. Same thing with the rep requirement. They can keep the rep requirement if we're able to somehow farm it. BC was fine with flying unlock at max level, WotLK was fine with flying unlock at LVL77 and Cata was also fine with flying unlocked from the start.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Somnium View Post
    I'm absolutely fine with Pathfinder. I wouldn't mind if it was available during the x.0 patch though (so you're still grounded for about a month, to earn the reps).

    Alternatively, they could still do the two-parter, but part 1 gets you the ability to fly in your covenant zone as soon as 9.0.x, and then like older pathfinders you can fly everywhere in 9.2.
    This is the only change that should be made. Complete the campaign and reps to unlock flying for current zones. Ground in new zones until you complete the campaign and reps there. I would make this change and apply it to alts as well. Final patch it can be unlocked account wide.

  7. #47
    The walkthrough process to unlock flying is okay in my personal experience, the main issue is that the players need to wait another 9 months to be able to fully unlock it and start flying, it sounds little bit unfair.

    For me it worked out just fine, since I always took a break after the launch both in Legion and BfA, and came back on flying patch.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    This isn't a solution because because their isn't a problem. Pathfinder is fine as is. The issue is laziness and that is a 'you" problem, not a game problem.
    Pathfinder is shit because flying is locked up until we are already halfway through the expansion. It would be obnoxious and lazy design that only satisfies a fringe minority who can't handle wanting to play ineffectively and not being rewarded for it, but at least we could immediately work towards flying instead of working into it, then having to wait a year.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflakesz View Post
    I think not being able to fly, really makes the game play experience better.

    Both in Legion & BFA, being grounded was a great experience.
    Learning the lay of the land, best paths & shortcuts. Using flightpaths & other means of travel. Goblins glider's, toy's & tricks to get around is fun.

    But it does get old, eventually, you should get flying. But not too early.
    If it was up to me, I would just enable flying in a patch when the time is right.

    I don't mind Pathfinder so much really, it's not a bad idea.
    But the timing is wrong, the problem is it hits you with another time-gated grind, when you are already ready to start flying.
    Frankly, the requirements for Pathfinder should be possible to meet, before the achievement becomes available.
    I think the world design in most zones since Draenor is rather shit. It is obnoxiously designed for you to take as much time as possible to get from point a to point b. The only zones that feel somewhat right to ride in are the 1-60 ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    For the most part, I'm fine with Pathfinder Part I, as it is, being required to unlock flying. Maybe drop the rep requirement to honored (or remove it). But doing all the zone quests and unlocking the achievement for exploring the zone seems to meet Blizzard's requirements for "playing it their way first". Now that I've done all the quests once, and viewed the entire zone from the ground "as intended"...please let me fly hereafter so I can get to the content I want to do faster.
    I think the revered requirement is mostly okay for the main factions, as normally once you finish a zone, you are already at honored. I think the more obnoxious part are the side faction which don't have their own zone, barely any quests and just a small number of world quests each day available to them. Wardens, Tortollians, Champions. These are the obnoxious ones which take just too long to complete. If they would release flying with Pathfinder Part I and limit the rep faction to the ones connected to your main zones which you can quest through and have world quest for over an entire zone, it wouldn't be that bad.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    It depends on what part of pathfinder you're looking at. If you leveled through PVP or dungeons, doing the questlines give you nothing valuable because you'll probably have better gear from PVP and dungeons. Same thing with world quests. Week 1 I was max level and had full HC dungeon gear and started doing mythic dungeons. Through dungeons and islands I was at the weekly AP softcap so doing world quests gave me nothing useful and I did them just for the rep.
    So you leveled by doing things not intended to be the main path to max level, refuse to level any alts in an alternate way, barely play at max level, and complain when the game isn't fully open for you?
    Maybe an MMO isn't for you.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kynario View Post
    If you guys were in charge of things at Blizzard, players would Unsubscribe in the first month.

    The whole point of Subscription-based MMO's is to design content in a way that it lasts for a couple of months, at least. That's the whole point. To keep people Subscribed for as long as possible.
    Considering that bc-mop flying was just spend some gold I don't think flying had much to do with subs. What really seems like happened with flying in the first place was they just tried to save money but designing the zones not for flying and tried to completely remove it all together.

    When that massively failed they tried to make it as annoying and drawn out as they could after that. Flying wasn't a problem for like 7+ years until they made it one.

    If they are wanting to change things for shadowlands clearly there has been backlash to their current choices on the system.

  11. #51
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The forums
    Posts
    34,987
    Quote Originally Posted by AbsolutVodka View Post
    I'm stating that from the position of a player, it shouldn't matter how much time another player spends in-game or how they use their time relative to their subscription. How another player spends their time in game shouldn't be of consequence or concern to you and your in-game time's fun value. .
    Agreed. Now you have your work cut out chasing down all these "but...but...what about new players / returning players / players with alts" and let us not forget the "I am concerned with how you spend your time, because your behaviour affects my 15 dollars spend" type.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    That already exists. Because world quests are so easy and people were finishing them so quick, they decided with BFA that they had to make them super annoying.

    So now here's a typical world quest experience for me:

    Run to the spot, there's a yellow dot, but I don't know how to get to it. Go to wowhead, look up quest, find the comment "the path to the top starts at 58, 31" or "the cave entrance is at "22, 34". /way 22, 34. Go inside wipe the floor with the mob, quest done.

    The other thing they did was have quests where the mobs spawn on a fixed timer so you have to stand there and wait, you can't just aoe kill them all at once. It's fascinating that they seem laser focused on making things take time, but seem to have no idea that it's just shit and a terrible experience for the player. No one is excited by "one shot mob... wait 15 seconds... one shot mob... wait 15 seconds". Like, seriously, are they trolling?
    so much this

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Pathfinder is fine.
    It is the wait for a year+ and add Pathfinder II with more made up reps to grind that people have a problem with imho.

  14. #54
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sarif Industries, Detroit
    Posts
    27,357
    Simple solution:

    Require that the the stories for each zone is done, then pony up ~20k gold to some NPC.

    There you go. Flying. Worked in TBC, Wrath, MoP and Cata (though those had level requirements rather than quest requirements).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    More crying for handouts, free allied races is not enough apparently
    "Handouts"

    Like this is welfare or some shit. Used to be you hit level cap, paid some gold and hopped on your mount. It wasn't until Draenor until suddenly that wasn't enough.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kynario View Post
    If you guys were in charge of things at Blizzard, players would Unsubscribe in the first month.

    The whole point of Subscription-based MMO's is to design content in a way that it lasts for a couple of months, at least. That's the whole point. To keep people Subscribed for as long as possible.
    You do realize Pathfinder wasn't a thing until Draenor right? And whatever the faults of TBC/Wrath/Cata/MOP, people weren't leaving in droves because flying was immediately available at level cap with some gold.

  15. #55
    Yeah I came back for the rep bonus to grind out some reps to get my bfa flying. Finally got my champions of azeroth and tortollan rep to revered. Just needed the nazjatar and mechagon reps now. So I do a few days grinding out rep before I finally say fuck it, why am I forcing myself to log on every day and do this completely unenjoyable content. Isn't gaming supposed to be fun =D

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I don't see people here saying, "hey, give us less to do". They're saying, "hey, stop wasting our time with bullshit, and get back to the good stuff that's actually at the roots of wow."
    are you kidding me? wow was built upon wasting time, dont believe me? go and try classic... EVERY goddamn thing takes way too long, the "grind" you now have to do to get flying is nothing compared to grinds from vanila people did for far lesser reward...

    as for islands, warfronts, garrison, world quests not being very good, i love how people on forums always know what people will like before puting it in the game so people can try it... blizz should hire some of you prophets, would save them a lot of development time and money... not to mention i seriously doubt you could find single thing in wow that is unanimously hated/loved...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    It is the wait for a year+ and add Pathfinder II with more made up reps to grind that people have a problem with imho.
    that would be reasonable, but reading the forum seems more like people have problem they dont receive flying upon loging in, along with complete mythic raid gear, all achievments and a ton of gold...

  17. #57
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sarif Industries, Detroit
    Posts
    27,357
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    that would be reasonable, but reading the forum seems more like people have problem they dont receive flying upon loging in, along with complete mythic raid gear, all achievments and a ton of gold...
    That's quite the extrapolation

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    It depends on what part of pathfinder you're looking at. If you leveled through PVP or dungeons, doing the questlines give you nothing valuable because you'll probably have better gear from PVP and dungeons. Same thing with world quests. Week 1 I was max level and had full HC dungeon gear and started doing mythic dungeons. Through dungeons and islands I was at the weekly AP softcap so doing world quests gave me nothing useful and I did them just for the rep.

    In my opinion doing the main quest and explore all zones is fine. Doing 100 WQ is just tedious and unnecessary especially if there's a fixed amount of quests you can do. Same thing with the rep requirement. They can keep the rep requirement if we're able to somehow farm it. BC was fine with flying unlock at max level, WotLK was fine with flying unlock at LVL77 and Cata was also fine with flying unlocked from the start.
    what the hell you need flying for if you only do instanced content?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    That's quite the extrapolation
    i mean, if you check all of the MANY pathfinder/flying threads it really seems like it...

    i might get behind the opinion of geting it sooner than in x.2 or so, but people whining about revered rep, thats just lazy...
    not to mention most often mentioned argument being "i only want to do pvp/dungeons/raids why should i do wq for flying", completely ignoring the fact that if you only want to do instanced content you dont need flying at all, thats just beyond my comprehension...

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    are you kidding me? wow was built upon wasting time, dont believe me? go and try classic... EVERY goddamn thing takes way too long, the "grind" you now have to do to get flying is nothing compared to grinds from vanila people did for far lesser reward...

    as for islands, warfronts, garrison, world quests not being very good, i love how people on forums always know what people will like before puting it in the game so people can try it... blizz should hire some of you prophets, would save them a lot of development time and money... not to mention i seriously doubt you could find single thing in wow that is unanimously hated/loved...

    - - - Updated - - -



    that would be reasonable, but reading the forum seems more like people have problem they dont receive flying upon loging in, along with complete mythic raid gear, all achievments and a ton of gold...
    I did classic up about halfway through mc. The grinds are less onerous there.

    When I was doing the Onyxia attunement, it was largely done in content that was level appropriate for me. It was interesting. There was some challenge and the dungeons also dropped gear I actually needed.

    Retail doesn’t work like that. You race ahead on character power - I gained 150 item levels in a week upon dinging - but you’re stuck doing the content for weeks after you’ve overpowered it and it should be obsolete.

    When I’m doing mechagon I want to be like, “HEY! RUSTBOLT GUYS! I can kill anyone on this island! I can solo 30 mobs at once! Can’t we just win this thing today and you give me the essence?”
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyuri Geller View Post
    It's very simple:

    Unlock it in the form of an achievement if you have completed every quest in every zone for the first character you level through.

    After you earn the account wide achievement, every new character can automatically fly if they have trained flying.

    Going forward, every expansion should stick to this logic.
    Nope. They should make pathfinder faster. So not patch x.2. But patch x.05 or patch x.1. But its fine as is.

    Why is flying at launch so important. If you can level the zones without flying you can stand to wait a bit longer so you can ninja pull mobs etc from other people.

    Nope, nope , nope.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •