Solution for Shadowlands Flying

[FelPlague]

I'm obviously talking about the grind - any grind whatsoever - its tedious and boring as shit.

So why are you playing an MMORPG literally the entire game is grind, have you ever played an RPG that has no grind?
if you dont want grinds, dont play an RPG.

[VinceVega]

I'm not comparing WoW to Everquest. I'm comparing being called lazy for not wanting to waste your time when playing a game for fun. It's like playing monopoly, but before you are allowed to buy property, you have to circle the board 10 times. You find that boring and want to buy property after 1 trip around or on the first go-round? Now you are lazy.

Doesn't have to be Everquest. The point is being called lazy for not wanting to waste whatever little down time you have to play a game. Meanwhile, seems going around a board 10 times before you can do anything would be more lazy, yet you would call me lazy for saying I'd like to buy property sooner. "You haven't earned it!" you would say, because I haven't traversed the board many times. You would counter and say, "you just want to be handed property!". Yet that wouldn't be true. I want to buy the property, I just see no sense in going around the board 10 times before I'm able to play the game.

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There's no middle here. If Blizz gave us flying after Pathfinder I, there would be a "middle". Currently Blizzard only allows us to fly after the content is irrelevant.

Otherwise, the rest of your argument is what's the most frustrating for me. You like vanilla ice cream with no toppings best. But if you are at a party and they offer chocolate syrup, whip cream, and sprinkles, you know your friends would have them, and you would see them having fun enjoying that, so you would also have to put that on your ice cream, even though you don't like it. So instead you "cry" until there are no topping for anyone, because you don't want them, but will be "forced" to have them because everyone else is.


You are going to have to explain this "left behind" mentality you have. So your friends won't let you do end game with them if you level slower? That's pretty harsh. I play with a bunch of casuals and some take twice as long to level as others. They don't play as often, or like to do all the time-wasting side quests, or they like leveling professions while they are leveling their character, etc. When they get to max level, we don't shun them, and we still let them play with us. So maybe you just need better friends.

Bad analogy. If with that icecream comes a promotion in your job then yes. Left behind in the sense, that you need x amount of time longer than everyone else. Be it questing, farming, WQs, leveling. Everything is faster with flying except instanced content itself. Thats that. Also in a few posts i allready said i would like to have flying in x.1 not x.2 because i think the novelty of it all is done by x.1 but not earlier.
But hey i have my opinion you don't like that and find it frustrating^^ Can't help that. But denying that not using flying if it is available in a competitive game is just... well...
You're icecream analogy would work for a mount maybe. If i don't like a mount and i would not like you to have it. It is nothing to me. If you have it and i don't i have no disadvantage whatsoever. But with flying i have a disadvantage. And i would use it. Like i do now. If flying would not give you ANYTHING but cosmetics nobody would scream for it and the whole discussion would not exist. But it does. I will take longer to finish anything. I don't have the time. I work fulltime. I fall behind. Done. Nothing behind it. Simple fact.

No one feels attacked i hope because i did not attack anyone. This whole topic is opinion. Both sides.

[FelPlague]

And just what the fuck is it with all of this artificial rep grind bullshit since Draenor????

A rep grind should reward mounts, gear or whatever the fuck cosmetic items there are, but NEVER EVER an essential part of gameplay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Obviously b is the only real solution

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If PvP is the prime concern for run-around idiots let them "not" have flying if they care so much, who gives a shit about them anyways? .)

PvP in any MMO is there to tide you over in content drought.
If you anybody only plays WoW for PvP, the idiot better fucks off to play DotA instead.

Reps have been an essential part of gameplay since vanilla my dude...
you required reps to do raids, dungeons, get items, enchants, recipes, etc.
Reps being a thing you HAVE to do if you want to progress, is something that has been aroudn for almost 16 years.

[Gyuri Geller]

So why are you playing an MMORPG literally the entire game is grind, have you ever played an RPG that has no grind?
if you dont want grinds, dont play an RPG.

The progression goes like this:

Subscribe -> Do solo PvE story and side quests, if done -> Do PvE isntanced content dungeons and then raids while doing profs if you are not in an instance, if every dungeon raid is done -> do PvE while doing profs in downtime -> feeling bored? -> If YES -> unsub

this is the whole process

[Arc Tossz]

Reps have been an essential part of gameplay since vanilla my dude...
you required reps to do raids, dungeons, get items, enchants, recipes, etc.
Reps being a thing you HAVE to do if you want to progress, is something that has been aroudn for almost 16 years.

The progression goes like this:

Subscribe -> Do solo PvE story and side quests, if done -> Do PvE isntanced content dungeons and then raids while doing profs if you are not in an instance, if every dungeon raid is done -> do PvE while doing profs in downtime -> feeling bored? -> If YES -> unsub

this is the whole process

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raids, dungeons, get items, enchants, recipes, etc

Fine by me, but Flying is a whole other story.

There is literally 0 reason to lock it behind any grind other thant the obvious obnoxious reason to keep you paying,
never has been up until the old WoW Dev Guard left.

The sad part is you know this fully well, and even being victims of this yourselves you argue for it.

you are like those Jews in a Nazi concentration camp that helped the Nazis.

[Snowfunk]

The problem is you can make this same exact argument to say we shouldn't use flight paths, goblin gliders, whistles, toys, or ground mounts. RP walk everywhere you want to go, because that's how your character would actually get around. Using ground mounts & flight paths is lazy.

RP walk until Pathfinder II, then we can all have a truly immersive experience. No portals, no zeps or boats that magically appear on the other continent with no time passed. You should be on the Zep the entire way from Org to Undercity, just like the Org to TB Zep.?

The problem is you can make this same exact argument to say we should be able instantly teleport any place we please.
Inane hyperboles won't get you very far.

[Arc Tossz]

The problem is you can make this same exact argument to say we should be able instantly teleport any place we please.
Inane hyperboles won't get you very far.

you yourself are talking in hyperboles if you think it would ever come to that.
your slippery slope idiocy won't get you anywhere.

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Even games like ESO and Guild Wars 2 are doing excellent, and go look up how travel works there.

[Snowfunk]

you yourself are talking in hyperboles if you think it would ever come to that.
your slippery slope idiocy won't get you anywhere.

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Even games like ESO and Guild Wars 2 are doing excellent, and go look up how travel works there.

What part of my initial post is a hyperbole? Did you even read it? Felt like I made a pretty sensible argument for once, but please, do enlighten me.

[tmamass]

The issue is you attacking other players and calling them lazy for not wanting to play the game like Blizzard likes you to play it.

#1 fixed your sentence
#2 hes right, pathfinder is fine. just play the game and you get flying.

[Beej]

#1 fixed your sentence
#2 hes right, pathfinder is fine. just play the game and you get flying.

No. He's wrong, and so are you. Pathfinder removes choice. Wasn't an issue till Draenor, until Blizzard and people like you made it into one for oddly supporting it.

[HailToTheKing]

Slap some "All reputations exalted" to that and we got a stew going.

[Ragedaug]

Bad analogy. If with that icecream comes a promotion in your job then yes. Left behind in the sense, that you need x amount of time longer than everyone else. Be it questing, farming, WQs, leveling. Everything is faster with flying except instanced content itself. Thats that. Also in a few posts i allready said i would like to have flying in x.1 not x.2 because i think the novelty of it all is done by x.1 but not earlier.
But hey i have my opinion you don't like that and find it frustrating^^ Can't help that. But denying that not using flying if it is available in a competitive game is just... well...
You're icecream analogy would work for a mount maybe. If i don't like a mount and i would not like you to have it. It is nothing to me. If you have it and i don't i have no disadvantage whatsoever. But with flying i have a disadvantage. And i would use it. Like i do now. If flying would not give you ANYTHING but cosmetics nobody would scream for it and the whole discussion would not exist. But it does. I will take longer to finish anything. I don't have the time. I work fulltime. I fall behind. Done. Nothing behind it. Simple fact.

No one feels attacked i hope because i did not attack anyone. This whole topic is opinion. Both sides.

What I find frustrating is that you can't enjoy the game unless you make it less enjoyable for me. I would say, lets both have the option to play how we like to play, but you don't want me to be able to play how I enjoy, regardless of the fact that it doesn't impact you.

What I'm asking is, how are you left behind? As far as saying it takes longer, that's irrelevant. Once you get to max level, you do the dungeons and raids with everyone else. Where are they going that you are being denied? There's way too many switched mains doing end game content that didn't get started for months after every one else for me to believe you taking a few more hours to get there will cause you to be left of out end game.

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#1 fixed your sentence
#2 hes right, pathfinder is fine. just play the game and you get flying.

Thanks for fixing it, I didn't even know it was broken, so it's a good thing you showed up. And I've said repeatedly I'm fine with Pathfinder. I'm just not fine with waiting an arbitrary amount of months after I complete Pathfinder, and if I had my preference, I would remove the Rep requirement, but that's not the part I'm crying about.

[Yorimar]

i wish we could go back to the old days where you would just purchase flying when you hit max level. pathfinder is bullshit and i will never understand why people are fine with it so please do not try to explain yourself if you are one of those. because most (if not all) of their reasons can also be achieved when flying would be available from the get go.

[Ragedaug]

The problem is you can make this same exact argument to say we should be able instantly teleport any place we please.
Inane hyperboles won't get you very far.

Bring it on. I don't play WoW to travel. I don't find it engaging to jump on a flight path, then leave my computer for 5-10 minutes to find something at my house to do while I wait for my character to get there. That's asinine. I jump into D3 from time to time because when I log in, I can start playing immediately. I don't have to re-run to the High Heavens or Pandemonium every time I want to fight Malthael. I run there once during the campaign, then on every subsequent wish to go there, I click on a map and "poof" I'm there, and I can start playing immediately.


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I can support my argument all the way to the extreme end of my slippery slope, though I'm not arguing for it because I understand there is some compromise.

So my argument being I enjoy the game more when it takes less time to get there, and would be perfectly fine if that was set to the extreme of map click wherever you want to start playing.

Now your argument is that you enjoy the game more when it takes more time to get there. Convince me that you would support RP walking every where with no mounts, no running, no portals as getting there more slowly increases your enjoyment of the game.

[Arc Tossz]

Obvious misquote.....this reads like you are replying to your own post.

Again you fuckface just trying to spout your own shit unto others.

Idiot is truly the most fitting description for you xD

[baskev]

Why is it not important?

Obviously you need to step up from being a run-around idiot,

and learn to play the game flying as it is supposed to be played since BC

why is it? answer me that...what do you gain from it that can not wait for a few weeks.

And how rude. I am not talking about just that. there are many ways. like pvp on and being dive bombed. quests things getting nicked by flying people before your eyes etc. have played wow long enough to know thsese problems.

Dude blizzard said they do not desgin the game around flying...so what are you talking about.
And you are just silly here, i am not saying NO flying. I am saying flying a month or 2 after launch.

[VinceVega]

What I find frustrating is that you can't enjoy the game unless you make it less enjoyable for me. I would say, lets both have the option to play how we like to play, but you don't want me to be able to play how I enjoy, regardless of the fact that it doesn't impact you.

What I'm asking is, how are you left behind? As far as saying it takes longer, that's irrelevant. Once you get to max level, you do the dungeons and raids with everyone else. Where are they going that you are being denied? There's way too many switched mains doing end game content that didn't get started for months after every one else for me to believe you taking a few more hours to get there will cause you to be left of out end game.

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Thanks for fixing it, I didn't even know it was broken, so it's a good thing you showed up. And I've said repeatedly I'm fine with Pathfinder. I'm just not fine with waiting an arbitrary amount of months after I complete Pathfinder, and if I had my preference, I would remove the Rep requirement, but that's not the part I'm crying about.

If it is that irrelevant why are people so engaged with this problem? Because it is not. But i am fine either way. I won't quite the game over something that trivial as people claim they do left and right (i don't actually believe people quit because of flying)

But still. I think people just need to face reality. They won't enable flying earlier. If it is not for the reasons i like it is because they can keep people playing longer.
Also i think Blizz is not stupid. If the dropoff because of pathfinder would be outweighing the binding of the players to play longer they would have enabled it.

But it doesn't. So MAYBE you get flying in x.1 in the future but never again earlier. No matter my or your opinion...

[Ragedaug]

If it is that irrelevant why are people so engaged with this problem? Because it is not. But i am fine either way. I won't quite the game over something that trivial as people claim they do left and right (i don't actually believe people quit because of flying)

But still. I think people just need to face reality. They won't enable flying earlier. If it is not for the reasons i like it is because they can keep people playing longer.
Also i think Blizz is not stupid. If the dropoff because of pathfinder would be outweighing the binding of the players to play longer they would have enabled it.

But it doesn't. So MAYBE you get flying in x.1 in the future but never again earlier. No matter my or your opinion...

I have unsubbed every XPac since WoD once Blizzard announced no flying and only resub when Pathfinder II is available. So, not sure if I count as "people", but I suspect I wasn't the only one who unsubbed based on how quickly Blizzard 180'd that decision for no more flight going forward, back in WoD. There's been other folks in this thread saying the same, that they quit until they can fly again.

As far as facing reality. I'm not sure what you think it is we are doing. I face the reality that Blizz removed flying for the first half of the XPac and Blizz faces the reality that they won't have my subscription $$. No is denying reality here.

[VinceVega]

I have unsubbed every XPac since WoD once Blizzard announced no flying and only resub when Pathfinder II is available. So, not sure if I count as "people", but I suspect I wasn't the only one who unsubbed based on how quickly Blizzard 180'd that decision for no more flight going forward, back in WoD. There's been other folks in this thread saying the same, that they quit until they can fly again.

As far as facing reality. I'm not sure what you think it is we are doing. I face the reality that Blizz removed flying for the first half of the XPac and Blizz faces the reality that they won't have my subscription $$. No is denying reality here.

You still bought the expansion and resubbed^^

[Ragedaug]

why is it? answer me that...what do you gain from it that can not wait for a few weeks.

Enjoyment. I don't have to play the game in a way I don't enjoy for reasons that don't impact me.

And how rude. I am not talking about just that. there are many ways. like pvp on and being dive bombed. quests things getting nicked by flying people before your eyes etc. have played wow long enough to know thsese problems.

I'm OK with removing flight from war mode. Since flight impacts war mode, the folks that do war mode can let Blizz know if they want it or not, but seems silly to ban flight from PVE Mode because people are getting dive bombed in PVP.

Dude blizzard said they do not desgin the game around flying...so what are you talking about.
And you are just silly here, i am not saying NO flying. I am saying flying a month or 2 after launch.

Blizzard designed the game for flying in BC, Wrath, and Cata. Like specifically designed for people who had flying mounts. There are places and quests you needed a flying mount to reach.

And the funny part? No one complained about it. No one complained that Blizzard introduced flying mounts and we could fly at max level. MoP wasn't specifically designed for flying, but again we could fly at max level, and again, no one complained, yet Blizzard decided anyway to remove flight from relevant content during MoP. Since then people have been complaining.

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You still bought the expansion and resubbed^^

OK, but I don't know what your point is. You realize that while I'm unsubbed, Blizzard isn't getting my money right? That's like $15 a month for every month I can't fly that Blizzard doesn't get.

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The other funny part is that Blizzard isn't making more money because of no flight. No one is sitting there thinking, "I was going to unsub, but we still can't fly so I'll stay". But we know people are unsubscribing because they can't fly.

So this proves Blizzard doesn't make all of their decisions based purely on the bottom line. Grounding players for an arbitrary amount of time is a just an ego thing. "You think you want flying, but you don't" and/or "this is MY game, and you play MY game the way I want you to play it".

No, I think I don't want to play the game in a way that's not fun for me, and I won't.