Page 26 of 28 FirstFirst ...
16
24
25
26
27
28
LastLast
  1. #501
    Never going to happen. No point in trying to force your ideal gameplay onto some else who has a different ideal gameplay.

    Sub number drops with heirloom introduction is a false correlation. The quality of the main content had more to do with that at the time. Cataclysm was rife with problems. Healers were furious at the start of the expansion. It had changed so much and many struggled. This lead to dead tanks, who got tired of repair bills, being dead, etc... Of course, DPS will DPS and not think with tunnel visioning. The 5 player dungeons were a mixed bag. Did you even do Grim Batol? I heard so many call it Grim Butthole because they hated it. The ZG and ZA revamp made a lot of people angry too. Blizzard dropped the ball with those two and the removal of the mounts made collectors angry.

    What I am saying is Cataclysm was filled with a ton of missteps. Plus, in my own guild a lot of people quit because, for them, Warcraft was all about killing that snot kid named Arthas. For them, the story was over.
    I have been chosen by the big metal hand in the sky!

  2. #502
    Really 26 pages of this.... NOOOOOOOOOOO. Don't use if you don't like it ffs end thread/

  3. #503
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    København
    Posts
    7,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    I am all for removing Heirloom gear, if they give people who already have max level characters a permanent XP buff when creating a new character.
    Why punish people, that use heirloom for convenience, NOT for XP bonus.

    Personally, I don't care about XP bonus, I just don't want to change gear every 5 minutes.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

    My pet collection --> http://www.warcraftpets.com/collection/FuxieDK/

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    Ugh as usual, the "Well dont use it" train begins, its sad to see people throw logic out of the window and fail to understand how humans work and hows its the devs job to manage their game because humans really suck at not taking the most efficient path where obvious. I would love the removal of the item, but not the XP bonus personally. I think its really sad to go through old content and basically need nothing and I miss the old days of getting good gear throughout the levelling experience, it removes a massive part of what an RPG is, getting gear upgrades and it categorically degrades the experience as an RPG. But I agree with others, without them its too slow, so id like to see as said above if they were going to do it.
    So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC). I love this whole argument about 'If they didn't make it easier they'd quit!'. Well, guess what? They quit anyway. Ironically, mainly due to making it easier/lazier/entitled, and the numbers plummeted.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC). I love this whole argument about 'If they didn't make it easier they'd quit!'. Well, guess what? They quit anyway. Ironically, mainly due to making it easier/lazier/entitled, and the numbers plummeted.
    Yeah this is why people always sprint instead of walk, bike instead of taking a car, read a book instead of watching tv.

    oh wait, that's not how people work. make something too tedious, like levelling through retarded quests with stupid half assed "story" attached to them and they just stop doing it.

    i'm sick to death of you people who think that there is some virtue in something in a video game taking slightly longer and that people seeking to be efficient is somehow a character defect that blizzard is obligated to engineer around because you don't have any fucking self-control and get your jollies over the idea of "making" other people conform to whatever pretend virtue you can concoct around playing a fucking video game.

    self-righteous bullshit, go do something worthwhile and look down on people instead of sitting on your ass playing a video game pretending you are doing something that has meaning.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    Yeah this is why people always sprint instead of walk, bike instead of taking a car, read a book instead of watching tv.

    oh wait, that's not how people work. make something too tedious, like levelling through retarded quests with stupid half assed "story" attached to them and they just stop doing it.

    i'm sick to death of you people who think that there is some virtue in something in a video game taking slightly longer and that people seeking to be efficient is somehow a character defect that blizzard is obligated to engineer around because you don't have any fucking self-control and get your jollies over the idea of "making" other people conform to whatever pretend virtue you can concoct around playing a fucking video game.

    self-righteous bullshit, go do something worthwhile and look down on people instead of sitting on your ass playing a video game pretending you are doing something that has meaning.
    Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC). I love this whole argument about 'If they didn't make it easier they'd quit!'. Well, guess what? They quit anyway. Ironically, mainly due to making it easier/lazier/entitled, and the numbers plummeted.
    It really is, and it does my head in to see all the pocket experts come on the internet to say that the above isnt true when its a categoric fact, whether they like it or not. We are taught as game developers that its our job to not only understand games but people and the fact they argue with me that this isnt true just proves how little they know, this is why developers like Blizzard have ignored fans in the past, for good and bad, because they dont know what they're talking about half the time.

    People will always take the easiest path even if they moan that its boring and sucks, and people will always say things are bad even when they're good, its a game developers job to judge them all equally and figure out if something really is truly bad, and also to pre-plan things with people in mind. "What will people do if we add this" "What will people think after 2 months of this" "will people really play this the way we intend?" etc. This is why flying and heirlooms, as much as they CAN be great, are all fantastic examples of badly implemented systems because they cause as much damage as good, they should never have been implemented the way they were, same goes equally for pathfinding. Its like "Hey lets add a really damaging system, but then make its aquisition even worse!" Its all a mess.

    Like you said, the easy way out will always be taken and its our job to think about that. Same goes when you make an FPS, every prop you place, will this get in the way? For example, you might want to put a big barrel thats rolled over into the middle of an alley or street because visually it makes sense, and most people would just throw it in, great! But that barrel is going to be a pain in the ass for pathfinding and people will keep running into it and getting frustrated, or crash their vehicle into it. Its our job to have forsight to know that.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC). I love this whole argument about 'If they didn't make it easier they'd quit!'. Well, guess what? They quit anyway. Ironically, mainly due to making it easier/lazier/entitled, and the numbers plummeted.
    The introduction of faster leveling has NOTHING to do with sub drops. Terrible end game content, terrible class balancing, and the ever changing MMO crowd is what caused the sub numbers to drop. The majority of posts in this thread are people disagreeing with removing heirlooms. To say that making leveling faster has taken meaning out of the game is so incredibly self-centered. How does how SOMEONE ELSE playing the game a different way affect YOU? Nothing is stopping you from leveling without heirlooms. Literally nothing. But people like you would rather heirlooms be removed so people are forced to play the game the way YOU want the game to be played.

    I have a newsflash for you. Forcing players to play an MMO a certain way will destroy the game. MMOs are meant to be played however you want to play it. It's not a single player game with a linear path. Forcing players into leveling a certain way this late into WoW's lifespan would be positively disastrous. But I guess people like you would rather see the game crash and burn if it means the game conforms to how you think it should be played.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.
    Yeah that's the main problem with Warlords, Legion and BfA- Heirlooms making you level quicker. Boy you nailed it on the noggin.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  10. #510
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    3,671
    Topics like this is fine to have the opinion. It is fine to want the game a certain way, however just because YOU like the idea of something doesn't make the IDEA a good idea for a game to be.

    Heirlooms are literally however a non-issue. Don't like heirlooms don't use them. No one forces you to use an heirloom. There is no one that demands you equip an heirloom.

    This isn't really like the Flying/Remove Flying argument because at least there the developers need to plan with flying in mind vs it not in mind. Developers don't need to account for people who DON'T want to use heirlooms because there is literally no reason, however if a large portion of the player base doesn't want flying, Developers should/will need to consider that opinion, just like the group that wants flying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC). I love this whole argument about 'If they didn't make it easier they'd quit!'. Well, guess what? They quit anyway. Ironically, mainly due to making it easier/lazier/entitled, and the numbers plummeted.
    Wrath maintained it's numbers for it's lifetime and Wrath had huge catch up mechanics to get people to raids that didn't require people to do lower tiers. If "making it easier causes people to quit" ... why did Wrath keep steady it's entire lifetime?

    People need to stop thinking they understand why numbers drop. The numbers don't drop because a game is "too easy" or "too hard" ... they drop for a variety of reasons and there is no one thing to point to. MMOs in general have changed since WoW launched ... the fact it is still something that gets any attention this long is impressive. The game is old, people have move on for a variety of reason. There is literally not one thing you can point to and go "there, that is the reason it lost players."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by TorAndre View Post
    After 15 years I took the decision to start a new account on a clean slate for myself. So far its been actually rather enjoyable. And the main reason for this is that I do not use heirloom items this time around.

    I do understand that the leveling process is something you just want to get done by when you do it for the 22nd time, however with the pros you get with the heirloom items, there are also some quite important cons.

    The process of leveling is a lot more rewarding. Every item that drops (since the world is scaling) is now an upgrade, even though minor. Having the normally 8 slots or so taken up by heirloom items that scale with you is a lot more detrimental to the leveling process then I could imagine.

    I know the reaction to some people would be "But I need my 30% heirloom experience buff". Well, they could scrap the entire heirloom system, and calculate how much gold you spent and send it back to you, and then just tune the entire experience gain overall by another 25% or so. Shouldn't really be a problem.

    I think I even recall Ion Hazzikostas years ago stating that heirloom system was borderline degeneracy, but I could be wrong about that.
    I'd be willing to bet with the level squish, those heirlooms might not function as they have all this time.
    "The fatal flaw of every plan, no matter how well planned, is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by lionofwar87 View Post
    Yeah I agree with this. I think heirlooms negatively impacted the leveling experience. I feel like heirloom gear put a huge magnifying glass on the worst aspect of the leveibg experience. Without the maginifying glass, you get a feeling of reward and accomplishment by having those upgrades from quests, dugeons, etc.
    so just because YOU dont like heirlooms because it affects YOUR experience of the game, they should remove heirlooms for EVERYONE so then if I want to use it cant and get MY game experience RUINED. ALL of these because you LACK the actual WILLPOWER to not use something that ruins YOUR experience and YOU have the total control over either using it or not ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Topics like this is fine to have the opinion. It is fine to want the game a certain way, however just because YOU like the idea of something doesn't make the IDEA a good idea for a game to be.

    Heirlooms are literally however a non-issue. Don't like heirlooms don't use them. No one forces you to use an heirloom. There is no one that demands you equip an heirloom.

    This isn't really like the Flying/Remove Flying argument because at least there the developers need to plan with flying in mind vs it not in mind. Developers don't need to account for people who DON'T want to use heirlooms because there is literally no reason, however if a large portion of the player base doesn't want flying, Developers should/will need to consider that opinion, just like the group that wants flying.
    its because they lack the willpower and require someone else to cut their choices for them so they can pick it up.

    I once decided that I want to level up a character doing only quests and no dungeons or BGs so I can explore zones I like the most and then I just did that. I didnt come here complain and bitch and whine about "I dont like (insert optional path here) so it should be removed from the game for everyone else who enjoys it".

    leveling up is a personal thing if I want it to feel it being hard then I use only quest given gears and not heirlooms without sticking my head into how someone else levels up 2 days faster than me and if I just want to get done with it then I use heirlooms and get it done and I dont care if they somebody else just got maxed twice as fast as me or if I did it twice as fast as someone else.
    Last edited by LuminaL; 2020-05-15 at 10:42 PM.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by lionofwar87 View Post
    Yeah I agree with this. I think heirlooms negatively impacted the leveling experience. I feel like heirloom gear put a huge magnifying glass on the worst aspect of the leveibg experience. Without the maginifying glass, you get a feeling of reward and accomplishment by having those upgrades from quests, dugeons, etc.
    So it isn't heirlooms that the problem. Why not fix the real problem instead of just removing the magnifying glass? If heirlooms show how crappy gearing is then fix gearing. Heirlooms are obviously the easier solution to always balancing gearing in a fast pace system. Gearing up for something only works when you have something to gear up for. Gear was a reward but never that great of one when you are leveling for the tenth time. Because you know that the gear is ultimately meaningless as a reward even when not using heirlooms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.
    People are not unhappy with the current state of WoW because of heirlooms and gear progression while leveling. That is low on the totem pool of problems through out the larger community. So before trying to tell people that they don't have a clue you might want to make sure you have one to begin with. Also you are completely off base when in the few threads on MMO-Champion every wants to keep the XP boost. Which means they want efficiency. They want it to go faster. But are trying to use "gear progression" as a band-aid when the problem is their own dissatisfaction with the game.

    Heirlooms have been around since WotLK. Gear progression has been a problem since TBC if not Vanilla. Because Blizzard never had very good quest rewards while leveling. The faster you level the worse it gets because the gear rewards do not keep up with your level. Even a person with out heirlooms will see a gap in the levels of their gear. Because the problem isn't heirlooms but the rewards while leveling. Fix those rewards and heirlooms don't even need to be messed with. Because you fix the real problem.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2020-05-15 at 10:50 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The introduction of faster leveling has NOTHING to do with sub drops. Terrible end game content, terrible class balancing, and the ever changing MMO crowd is what caused the sub numbers to drop. The majority of posts in this thread are people disagreeing with removing heirlooms. To say that making leveling faster has taken meaning out of the game is so incredibly self-centered. How does how SOMEONE ELSE playing the game a different way affect YOU? Nothing is stopping you from leveling without heirlooms. Literally nothing. But people like you would rather heirlooms be removed so people are forced to play the game the way YOU want the game to be played.

    I have a newsflash for you. Forcing players to play an MMO a certain way will destroy the game. MMOs are meant to be played however you want to play it. It's not a single player game with a linear path. Forcing players into leveling a certain way this late into WoW's lifespan would be positively disastrous. But I guess people like you would rather see the game crash and burn if it means the game conforms to how you think it should be played.
    the argument people love to use about flying when they are told to not use it is they will then get slower in farming herbs and ores and doing quests compared to other players.(Ironically thats what they want for everyone but they themselves dont like it somehow )

    but when we are talking about the leveling, there is no argument of such can be brought into the topic. 100 characters just got maxed yesterday before you and 100 will on the next day after you and so on and not only it doesnt have any negative effect on the community it actually has a positive effect. with the removal of the heirlooms a lot of people who hate leveling ( like myself ) will not level any other character anymore or will do it much much less frequently. and with that there will be even less players in leveling zones and less newly maxed level characters to form group for gear ups.

    but somehow people cant understand this and still are like "I dont like it should be removed so you cant enjoy it as well"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC).
    and yet they were thinking EXACTLY that (thinking people will step up when given hard challenges) when making Cata and Im pretty sure you know what happened next.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Zigrifid View Post
    Well you can have your own personal heirloom "removal" by not using them
    Exactly!If someone doesn't want to use Heirlooms then they should just not use them lol don't drag everyone else down as well lol

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by TorAndre View Post
    This has been adressed by me so many times I just flat out refuse to repeat myself.

    I was the first to bring up narcissism in relation to this topic.

    And thats in relation to some people in this thread that are willing to see changes that helps them, but have a negative impact on everyone else.

    But if you somehow bring up a suggestion that will make the game better for everyone, then you are suddenly the selfish one.

    Most suggestions made ever, was made in the spirit of being convinced hos own idea is for the greater good.
    Your suggestions are not better for the game. They are better for you.

    Calling people names because they disagree with you is childish and the height of narcissism. Your "addressing" of the problem has not been done once. All you have done is dismiss the problem and called people names in one post and in others claimed a holier than thou attitude about how mature you are. This is the simple fact. So simple that it has been pointed out to you multiple times. If you don't want to use heirlooms then don't use them. You refuse to see this so I can only summise that you are trolling and are loving the attention or you are stupid to believe that Blizzard will cater to a group of one.

  17. #517
    Where the game is going in 9.0 could mean less need for them for sure. I don't see a reason to remove content typically if someone else is enjoying it though. Realistically they may just reveice a nerf with the new leveling flow with shadowlands so that pacing doesn't feel too overdone when you go through a single zone and get halfway to max.

  18. #518
    This thread should probably just be locked and done with already.

    As many have said, If you don’t like the XP bonus and enjoy the gearing while levelling up don’t use heirlooms. Your looking for a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.
    Let's see I take satisfaction in having earned my physics PhD, I take satisfaction in staying in shape, travelling, learning and improving myself in general.

    You know what i don't take "satisfaction" in, is spending extra time doing mundane braindead "quests" and travel in a video game. You don't know shit about me, but i do know enough about the game to know that essences, azerite gear, AP grind, rep grinds and RNG forging and corruption are making a lot more people "unhappy with the game" than fucking heirlooms speeding up levelling. Something that Blizzard TRIED to make more time consuming and tedious in 7.3/7.3.5 and had it backfire.

    How you square their backpedalling on levelling times with heirlooms being a problem shows you completely lack any sort ability to form logical connections in your mind.

    Also, you're just one of those holier than thou fuckers who think there is some virtue in putting in more time in a leisure activity.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.
    Do you have any evidence to support only a few of the current players happy and the extremely vast majority are unhappy? I'll wait for some non anecdotal evidence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •