I would love to see the removal of heirlooms from the game.

[TheRevenantHero]

So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC). I love this whole argument about 'If they didn't make it easier they'd quit!'. Well, guess what? They quit anyway. Ironically, mainly due to making it easier/lazier/entitled, and the numbers plummeted.

The introduction of faster leveling has NOTHING to do with sub drops. Terrible end game content, terrible class balancing, and the ever changing MMO crowd is what caused the sub numbers to drop. The majority of posts in this thread are people disagreeing with removing heirlooms. To say that making leveling faster has taken meaning out of the game is so incredibly self-centered. How does how SOMEONE ELSE playing the game a different way affect YOU? Nothing is stopping you from leveling without heirlooms. Literally nothing. But people like you would rather heirlooms be removed so people are forced to play the game the way YOU want the game to be played.

I have a newsflash for you. Forcing players to play an MMO a certain way will destroy the game. MMOs are meant to be played however you want to play it. It's not a single player game with a linear path. Forcing players into leveling a certain way this late into WoW's lifespan would be positively disastrous. But I guess people like you would rather see the game crash and burn if it means the game conforms to how you think it should be played.

[NoiseTank13]

Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.

Yeah that's the main problem with Warlords, Legion and BfA- Heirlooms making you level quicker. Boy you nailed it on the noggin.

[Darththeo]

Topics like this is fine to have the opinion. It is fine to want the game a certain way, however just because YOU like the idea of something doesn't make the IDEA a good idea for a game to be.

Heirlooms are literally however a non-issue. Don't like heirlooms don't use them. No one forces you to use an heirloom. There is no one that demands you equip an heirloom.

This isn't really like the Flying/Remove Flying argument because at least there the developers need to plan with flying in mind vs it not in mind. Developers don't need to account for people who DON'T want to use heirlooms because there is literally no reason, however if a large portion of the player base doesn't want flying, Developers should/will need to consider that opinion, just like the group that wants flying.

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So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC). I love this whole argument about 'If they didn't make it easier they'd quit!'. Well, guess what? They quit anyway. Ironically, mainly due to making it easier/lazier/entitled, and the numbers plummeted.

Wrath maintained it's numbers for it's lifetime and Wrath had huge catch up mechanics to get people to raids that didn't require people to do lower tiers. If "making it easier causes people to quit" ... why did Wrath keep steady it's entire lifetime?

People need to stop thinking they understand why numbers drop. The numbers don't drop because a game is "too easy" or "too hard" ... they drop for a variety of reasons and there is no one thing to point to. MMOs in general have changed since WoW launched ... the fact it is still something that gets any attention this long is impressive. The game is old, people have move on for a variety of reason. There is literally not one thing you can point to and go "there, that is the reason it lost players."

[Melusine]

After 15 years I took the decision to start a new account on a clean slate for myself. So far its been actually rather enjoyable. And the main reason for this is that I do not use heirloom items this time around.

I do understand that the leveling process is something you just want to get done by when you do it for the 22nd time, however with the pros you get with the heirloom items, there are also some quite important cons.

The process of leveling is a lot more rewarding. Every item that drops (since the world is scaling) is now an upgrade, even though minor. Having the normally 8 slots or so taken up by heirloom items that scale with you is a lot more detrimental to the leveling process then I could imagine.

I know the reaction to some people would be "But I need my 30% heirloom experience buff". Well, they could scrap the entire heirloom system, and calculate how much gold you spent and send it back to you, and then just tune the entire experience gain overall by another 25% or so. Shouldn't really be a problem.

I think I even recall Ion Hazzikostas years ago stating that heirloom system was borderline degeneracy, but I could be wrong about that.

I'd be willing to bet with the level squish, those heirlooms might not function as they have all this time.

[LuminaL]

Yeah I agree with this. I think heirlooms negatively impacted the leveling experience. I feel like heirloom gear put a huge magnifying glass on the worst aspect of the leveibg experience. Without the maginifying glass, you get a feeling of reward and accomplishment by having those upgrades from quests, dugeons, etc.

so just because YOU dont like heirlooms because it affects YOUR experience of the game, they should remove heirlooms for EVERYONE so then if I want to use it cant and get MY game experience RUINED. ALL of these because you LACK the actual WILLPOWER to not use something that ruins YOUR experience and YOU have the total control over either using it or not ?

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Topics like this is fine to have the opinion. It is fine to want the game a certain way, however just because YOU like the idea of something doesn't make the IDEA a good idea for a game to be.

Heirlooms are literally however a non-issue. Don't like heirlooms don't use them. No one forces you to use an heirloom. There is no one that demands you equip an heirloom.

This isn't really like the Flying/Remove Flying argument because at least there the developers need to plan with flying in mind vs it not in mind. Developers don't need to account for people who DON'T want to use heirlooms because there is literally no reason, however if a large portion of the player base doesn't want flying, Developers should/will need to consider that opinion, just like the group that wants flying.

its because they lack the willpower and require someone else to cut their choices for them so they can pick it up.

I once decided that I want to level up a character doing only quests and no dungeons or BGs so I can explore zones I like the most and then I just did that. I didnt come here complain and bitch and whine about "I dont like (insert optional path here) so it should be removed from the game for everyone else who enjoys it".

leveling up is a personal thing if I want it to feel it being hard then I use only quest given gears and not heirlooms without sticking my head into how someone else levels up 2 days faster than me and if I just want to get done with it then I use heirlooms and get it done and I dont care if they somebody else just got maxed twice as fast as me or if I did it twice as fast as someone else.

[rhorle]

Yeah I agree with this. I think heirlooms negatively impacted the leveling experience. I feel like heirloom gear put a huge magnifying glass on the worst aspect of the leveibg experience. Without the maginifying glass, you get a feeling of reward and accomplishment by having those upgrades from quests, dugeons, etc.

So it isn't heirlooms that the problem. Why not fix the real problem instead of just removing the magnifying glass? If heirlooms show how crappy gearing is then fix gearing. Heirlooms are obviously the easier solution to always balancing gearing in a fast pace system. Gearing up for something only works when you have something to gear up for. Gear was a reward but never that great of one when you are leveling for the tenth time. Because you know that the gear is ultimately meaningless as a reward even when not using heirlooms.

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Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.

People are not unhappy with the current state of WoW because of heirlooms and gear progression while leveling. That is low on the totem pool of problems through out the larger community. So before trying to tell people that they don't have a clue you might want to make sure you have one to begin with. Also you are completely off base when in the few threads on MMO-Champion every wants to keep the XP boost. Which means they want efficiency. They want it to go faster. But are trying to use "gear progression" as a band-aid when the problem is their own dissatisfaction with the game.

Heirlooms have been around since WotLK. Gear progression has been a problem since TBC if not Vanilla. Because Blizzard never had very good quest rewards while leveling. The faster you level the worse it gets because the gear rewards do not keep up with your level. Even a person with out heirlooms will see a gap in the levels of their gear. Because the problem isn't heirlooms but the rewards while leveling. Fix those rewards and heirlooms don't even need to be messed with. Because you fix the real problem.

[LuminaL]

The introduction of faster leveling has NOTHING to do with sub drops. Terrible end game content, terrible class balancing, and the ever changing MMO crowd is what caused the sub numbers to drop. The majority of posts in this thread are people disagreeing with removing heirlooms. To say that making leveling faster has taken meaning out of the game is so incredibly self-centered. How does how SOMEONE ELSE playing the game a different way affect YOU? Nothing is stopping you from leveling without heirlooms. Literally nothing. But people like you would rather heirlooms be removed so people are forced to play the game the way YOU want the game to be played.

I have a newsflash for you. Forcing players to play an MMO a certain way will destroy the game. MMOs are meant to be played however you want to play it. It's not a single player game with a linear path. Forcing players into leveling a certain way this late into WoW's lifespan would be positively disastrous. But I guess people like you would rather see the game crash and burn if it means the game conforms to how you think it should be played.

the argument people love to use about flying when they are told to not use it is they will then get slower in farming herbs and ores and doing quests compared to other players.(Ironically thats what they want for everyone but they themselves dont like it somehow )

but when we are talking about the leveling, there is no argument of such can be brought into the topic. 100 characters just got maxed yesterday before you and 100 will on the next day after you and so on and not only it doesnt have any negative effect on the community it actually has a positive effect. with the removal of the heirlooms a lot of people who hate leveling ( like myself ) will not level any other character anymore or will do it much much less frequently. and with that there will be even less players in leveling zones and less newly maxed level characters to form group for gear ups.

but somehow people cant understand this and still are like "I dont like it should be removed so you cant enjoy it as well"

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So very true. Its amazing how people (and apparently even Blizzard) can't see that game content and direction dictates player behavior. You give them the easy way out, and they'll take it every time. You set challenges and more difficult goals, and they'll conform to game play design (eg Vanilla/TBC).

and yet they were thinking EXACTLY that (thinking people will step up when given hard challenges) when making Cata and Im pretty sure you know what happened next.

[Bigcountry11782]

Well you can have your own personal heirloom "removal" by not using them

Exactly!If someone doesn't want to use Heirlooms then they should just not use them lol don't drag everyone else down as well lol

[munkeyinorbit]

This has been adressed by me so many times I just flat out refuse to repeat myself.

I was the first to bring up narcissism in relation to this topic.

And thats in relation to some people in this thread that are willing to see changes that helps them, but have a negative impact on everyone else.

But if you somehow bring up a suggestion that will make the game better for everyone, then you are suddenly the selfish one.

Most suggestions made ever, was made in the spirit of being convinced hos own idea is for the greater good.

Your suggestions are not better for the game. They are better for you.

Calling people names because they disagree with you is childish and the height of narcissism. Your "addressing" of the problem has not been done once. All you have done is dismiss the problem and called people names in one post and in others claimed a holier than thou attitude about how mature you are. This is the simple fact. So simple that it has been pointed out to you multiple times. If you don't want to use heirlooms then don't use them. You refuse to see this so I can only summise that you are trolling and are loving the attention or you are stupid to believe that Blizzard will cater to a group of one.

[Rilas13]

Where the game is going in 9.0 could mean less need for them for sure. I don't see a reason to remove content typically if someone else is enjoying it though. Realistically they may just reveice a nerf with the new leveling flow with shadowlands so that pacing doesn't feel too overdone when you go through a single zone and get halfway to max.

[Declaron]

This thread should probably just be locked and done with already.

As many have said, If you don’t like the XP bonus and enjoy the gearing while levelling up don’t use heirlooms. Your looking for a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

[hyphnos]

Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.

Let's see I take satisfaction in having earned my physics PhD, I take satisfaction in staying in shape, travelling, learning and improving myself in general.

You know what i don't take "satisfaction" in, is spending extra time doing mundane braindead "quests" and travel in a video game. You don't know shit about me, but i do know enough about the game to know that essences, azerite gear, AP grind, rep grinds and RNG forging and corruption are making a lot more people "unhappy with the game" than fucking heirlooms speeding up levelling. Something that Blizzard TRIED to make more time consuming and tedious in 7.3/7.3.5 and had it backfire.

How you square their backpedalling on levelling times with heirlooms being a problem shows you completely lack any sort ability to form logical connections in your mind.

Also, you're just one of those holier than thou fuckers who think there is some virtue in putting in more time in a leisure activity.

[Beefhammer]

Apparently you're the type that has no clue to as to why only a few are happy with the game in its current state, and why making things too "efficient" caused even the most casual base to lose interest. I get it, you're a 'super efficient causal' type that doesn't really understand the meaning, or take satisfaction in earning something. WoW is definitely for you.

Do you have any evidence to support only a few of the current players happy and the extremely vast majority are unhappy? I'll wait for some non anecdotal evidence.

[lllBlackSunlll]

Well you can have your own personal heirloom "removal" by not using them

There is a big problem with this mindset. The game is semi designed with heirlooms in mind.

The benefit of heirlooms is never needing to replace your gear, and it is almost always the best gear for your level.

The downside is it socially isolates players, ruins lower level market outside of transmogs, and hinders player's expectation on how the game is actually played. All of these are very important to new players to continue playing.

None of these are done just from heirlooms alone, but together impact the game in a big way that ends up being more of a negative than positive.

But in short, if something is available, is optimal to play the game, and is accessible then the game is inherently designed towards it.

Think of it like this. If I were a player who doesn't like what corrupted gear has done to 8.3 then I jUsT sHoUlDn'T uSe ThEm. Unfortunately that's just not how that works.

[rhorle]

The downside is it socially isolates players, ruins lower level market outside of transmogs, and hinders player's expectation on how the game is actually played. All of these are very important to new players to continue playing.

Heirlooms do not socially isolate players. You have the exact same social options available with and with out heirlooms. There is no lower level market because there is not a large amount of people that stay at a low level. It doesn't hinder an expectation on how the game is actually played because you play the same at end game gear wise. Rotations, and other stuff, change from those used while leveling anyways.

New players get a boost. So they can boost and skip all of the "very important" things. Corrupted gear is different then Heirlooms because they serve different functions. One is end game gear to provide character power. The other is leveling gear to get you to end game faster. You can however play with out corrupted gear because Blizzard added the ability to purify it. You will just have lower DPS but it is still possible to do. Just like you can play without heirlooms if you really want to but it is easier to say they are the biggest evil ever while still using it because it actually is super nice to exist.

[razorpax]

There is a big problem with this mindset. The game is semi designed with heirlooms in mind.

The benefit of heirlooms is never needing to replace your gear, and it is almost always the best gear for your level.

The downside is it socially isolates players, ruins lower level market outside of transmogs, and hinders player's expectation on how the game is actually played. All of these are very important to new players to continue playing.

None of these are done just from heirlooms alone, but together impact the game in a big way that ends up being more of a negative than positive.

But in short, if something is available, is optimal to play the game, and is accessible then the game is inherently designed towards it.

Think of it like this. If I were a player who doesn't like what corrupted gear has done to 8.3 then I jUsT sHoUlDn'T uSe ThEm. Unfortunately that's just not how that works.

the game is not designed with heirlooms in mind ya goober

[lollerlaban]

They should just make an heirloom tab with item slots where heirlooms can be inserted for the bonuses. That way you can still get upgrades in the world because half of your gear isn't scaling all the time.

Heirlooms are still and have always been absolutely garbage for BFA since they don't give azerite traits and their ilvl is abysmal in comparison, no clue why they went with that.

[lllBlackSunlll]

Questing greens are equal to heirlooms, any blues and epics you get are actually better stat wise

This isn't true, they are better than blue pre-wod, then blue equivalent in wod+

[Wheeler]

I actually kind of understand. There's something fun about getting a new piece of gear and equipping it. Heirlooms take that entirely out of the game - Since you're using the same pieces the entire time. Especially when they now have the chance to forge to higher quality.

People are going to think that this is about speed of leveling, but if it's about the gear, and you just want the speed tailored to match heirloom leveling (or close to it) without the heirlooms, I think that's a great idea!

[rhorle]

I actually kind of understand. There's something fun about getting a new piece of gear and equipping it. Heirlooms take that entirely out of the game - Since you're using the same pieces the entire time. Especially when they now have the chance to forge to higher quality.

The problem is gear rewards suck. I went 10 to 20 levels with out an upgrade for a slot on my warrior alt and that was with heirlooms. Heirlooms were a band aid for the poor gearing of leveling when they were introduced and still fill that role now. There is a lot more work needed to give a "rewarding experience" then simply removing heirlooms and adjusting the speed you level.