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  1. #21
    I assume when TBC classic comes out and people hit 70 and head into heroic Blood Furnace in greens and the first naked orc punches them for 7k they might CC a few things.

    In Blackrock Spire the first Scarshield Grunt mobs have a base melee damage of 541 according to classicdb and the Laughing Skull Enforcers at the start of heroic Blood Furnace have a base melee damage of 9,590 according to TBCdb. Even the 'hard' hitting Gordok Brutes in Dire Maul North have a base damage of 807.

    Tank HP will be going from ~6,000 to ~13,000 but tank damage will be going up 1,500%-1,800%.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2020-05-01 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #22
    I also quit a few months after launch and I was a Warlock so an integral part of the Spell Cleave groups, I even enjoyed the gameplay of it. But then I got just past ZF in level and tried to do some questing and was reminded why I hate forced PVP and played on a normal realm from Launch. I was on Whitemane which was full and had Q's since launch, its stupidly imbalanced in favor of Horde and I got gang raped over and over again. So I quit until I could realm transfer, because Fuck re rolling. Then Transfers came up and I transferred over fully intending on playing and then they offered the 100% bonus EXP so I have been leveling Alliance characters on Retail since then.

  3. #23
    So you want people to join a group and then purposely play badly so it can remind you of how awful everyone was in vanilla? Because that seems unlikely. If that's what you want you're after you're about 15 years too late.

    The only reason there weren't specific groups in vanilla is because nobody knew it would make a difference, nobody knew how much stronger it was to just get casters to AoE everything. Now that we know nobody will do anything different, why go out of your way to make the game harder? Especially for leveling/gearing because those things aren't fun in the first place and getting them over with quicker is better.

    But hey, when TBC comes out you can always try again. Except it'll be exactly the same, because people are just better now, and they'll do the exact same thing and blow through every TBC dungeon/raid as well.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by wildcardNS View Post
    I laughed harder than I probably should have. Also, not sure what OP is on about, we AoE pulled in 2007 too. Sub 50 dungeons are beyond easy. 50-60 dungeons are standard easy. You remember the game being harder because everyone was garbage back then. Lots (most?) still are, but the average is much improved.
    yes pl is amazing,in pugged content,or do you enjoy reserves?ninjas?or potentialy farming for an item for months to never drop?today you just take a few buddies of your armor and the odds are pretty good,im not saying its good when FORCED liek in mythic raids,but in random dungeons and pugges its simply the best loot system

  5. #25
    this is an extremely odd question as people lobbied blizzard to make wow classic because people had fun in classic. if people can find enjoyment out of a mega old version of the game, then why wouldnt you be able to as well?

  6. #26
    I was Shaman tanking while I was really into it, changed everyone's mind about it being viable, it can even tank some raid fights. Play with friends is the best advice.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord
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    Your fun sounds different than what people the majority have fun doing these days. 2004 called and they want you back I guess?

    I'm not saying your definition of fun is wrong either, but expecting people to play how you want to play is entirely anti-classic isn't it? People wanted consequences to matter again and they also wanted the socialization aspect of the game from 2004 to exist again. While you can turn the game back to 2004, you can't really turn the clock back to 2004 in regards to how people consume games these days.

    To put it bluntly. Start socializing and find people who want the same things you do. Classic is about making a name for yourself and the community right? Go forth and find people who think like you.

    Good luck.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire meekus's Avatar
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    The problem with classic for me is that everything has already been figured out a long time ago. Everyone knows what is best and nothing will be changed to mix things up.

    It also has no real end game. Raids are easy, dungeons you outgrow almost immediately and PvP ranking is mostly about the amount of time you put in. I guess premade vs. premade games could be pretty fun though.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by meekus View Post
    The problem with classic for me is that everything has already been figured out a long time ago. Everyone knows what is best and nothing will be changed to mix things up.

    It also has no real end game. Raids are easy, dungeons you outgrow almost immediately and PvP ranking is mostly about the amount of time you put in. I guess premade vs. premade games could be pretty fun though.
    This is a pretty big issue with classic right now. Which is why I really really think they need to run tbc patch by patch. Certain classes were top tier or stronger than others at different points in the expansion. Yes we will know what all classes are going to be strongest with each patch but I can’t honestly see too many people rerolling or having a class for every patch just because it’s op. And yeah we know what will be the best at the end but it will at least feel better knowing other classes will have their time to shine over the course of the expansion.

    I think this would make for the most fun experience. Even in wotlk. Fuck it. Release 3.0 DKS and their insane op-ness. Let wotlk run it’s course and let us play how the expansion went.

    If my memory serves me right, a major reason why they chose to keep it 1.12 is because they said they ‘lost’ most of the data from patches prior and didn’t start archiving information until after that patch. So if what they say is true, then running classic tbc patch by patch should be entirely possible.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Synic12 View Post
    I really don’t want to sound like a wet blanket but honestly it’s sort of worse now and this is also why I quit. The people just ruined it. At least on my server 90% of dungeon groups are just a level 60 aoe pulling the whole dungeon and charging everyone like 10g per run.
    I guess you thought you did, but you didn't?

    But seriously if the only way you can enjoy vanilla is only if other people play badly intentionally. Maybe you didn't like vanilla, maybe you liked nostalgia.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I guess you thought you did, but you didn't?

    But seriously if the only way you can enjoy vanilla is only if other people play badly intentionally. Maybe you didn't like vanilla, maybe you liked nostalgia.
    Pretty big stretch there bud. I wouldn’t say me not liking the hours and hours and hours of farming for consumables to stack and the hours of preparation of getting world buffs and being asked to logout to keep them in order to do MC in 40 mins instead of 50 mins is me asking people to play poorly.

    Aoe farming dungeons? Don’t care. Boosting? Really don’t care. Having the majority of raids ask you to spend hours a day minmaxing for content that can literally be cleared in greens? Nty

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by TorAndre View Post
    Well I don't really care whats "bad" or "good" numerically in classic. Because I don't have to. Its all pretty easy if you play with people who just care about what they are doing.

    Min-maxing in classic seems completely absurd unless you are doing like a Loatheb, 4 Horsemen, Kel Thuzad business.

    My intention with classic is to chill, relax and enjoy the good stuff about it. There HAVE to be people who play it for the same reason, or?

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    It creates a hell a lot of toxicity and unfairness in a way though. Kinda goes against the core values people had back in the day in MMOs. Its a shame really.

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    Ye, maybe PVE realm is a good solution.

    So thats another question. Do you think the a normal server is better suited for the thing I am looking for?
    I don't really understand what u are getting at, is there any chance you can clarify? Using AOE abilities, Kiting, Etc has nothing to do with Min maxing and being stressed out, if thats all it takes to make you stressed, and excuse me if this comes across as rude, but maybe you are overreaching with the games you want to play? Maybe animal crossing or Stardew valley is more up your alley. maybe I'm misunderstand what you are saying, so feel free to clarify, but if people pressing Blizzard makes you stressed, then I just don't think any MMORPG, or online games in general is something you would enjoy.

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    You can play Classic to chill, but virtually every single dungeon run I have done has contained players who think they're armchair experts because they played "back in the day" but are actually atrociously bad by Retail standards. There may be the occasional positive experienced but for the most part I simply cannot stomach the Classic community.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Synic12 View Post
    Pretty big stretch there bud. I wouldn’t say me not liking the hours and hours and hours of farming for consumables to stack and the hours of preparation of getting world buffs and being asked to logout to keep them in order to do MC in 40 mins instead of 50 mins is me asking people to play poorly.

    Aoe farming dungeons? Don’t care. Boosting? Really don’t care. Having the majority of raids ask you to spend hours a day minmaxing for content that can literally be cleared in greens? Nty
    I'm not saying this specifically applies to you.

    From memory, most of the nostalgia hype around the idea of classic was how much better vanilla was because 'wow was hard' and 'raiding was hardcore' and levelling 'took 400 years and required the sacrifice of your firstborn child'. If you combine that bizarre masochistic nostalgia with how driven by efficiency the average retail player is I'd say it was pretty unrealistic to expect anything but the level of sperging you described.

  15. #35
    You'll have a lot to catch up on but no it's not too late. The whole point of ZG is to act as a catch-up raid, as it will be with AQ20.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I'm not saying this specifically applies to you.

    From memory, most of the nostalgia hype around the idea of classic was how much better vanilla was because 'wow was hard' and 'raiding was hardcore' and levelling 'took 400 years and required the sacrifice of your firstborn child'. If you combine that bizarre masochistic nostalgia with how driven by efficiency the average retail player is I'd say it was pretty unrealistic to expect anything but the level of sperging you described.
    Yeah I’m not that person at all. I knew it wasn’t going to be like this at all. But that doesn’t mean I still don’t think the community killed the drive for classic for me. The mass amount of sperging for classic is un fucking bearable. At least in retail the sperging is kept for the mythic raiders so if I want to be casual then I can play normal and heroic raids.

    In classic it’s like everyone and their dog became spergs because they thought “I can finally be a high end raider with little to no thought just have to put in time like I do anyway” and turned it up to fucking 11 for content that is a fucking joke.

    And don’t get me wrong, I love that it’s a joke. I love the old school raids and I wanted to play them. Not when I’m required to put in 15 hours a week to save 30 mins on raid night and push parses that’s fucking dumb

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    this is an extremely odd question as people lobbied blizzard to make wow classic because people had fun in classic.
    People had fun with classic when everyone was dumb as fuck and play wasn't optimized and min/maxxed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synic12 View Post
    At least in retail the sperging is kept for the mythic raiders
    Shit dude.

    You haven't run into people running optimized leveling dungeons? If you aren't skipping all the mobs you can skip and chain pulling enough you can expect an earfull at best and kick at worst lol.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    so...the behaviour you tried to escape from retail is optimal play?lol sorry to tell ya but...these days,people have learned whats better,and very few will intentionaly gimp themselves for some odd sense of nostalgia,idk personaly i havent had any issues forming non ''meta'' groups for dungeons and just runing them at normal pace,but ofc we aoe....its just silly of you to expect people to play bad on purpose

    Play bad on purpose? What? Treating regular dungeons in Classic like they are Mythic speed runs is the epitome of boring. Also, I refuse to play with anyone that uses the term "Spellcleave" mainly, because they have already proven to be fucking morons just by using that word -- so, I can definitely relate to the OP on that.

    Also, it's ironic that you call the OP's playstyle as bad, yet your grammar and writing style is as if you are fresh out of 1st grade. Perhaps you should put the games down, and put the same amount of effort into this, as you do your game.

  19. #39
    Play a warrior toon whever your ony and rend buff are up

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    so...the behaviour you tried to escape from retail is optimal play?lol sorry to tell ya but...these days,people have learned whats better,and very few will intentionaly gimp themselves for some odd sense of nostalgia,idk personaly i havent had any issues forming non ''meta'' groups for dungeons and just runing them at normal pace,but ofc we aoe....its just silly of you to expect people to play bad on purpose
    This. I had this epiphany a few weeks ago. It was a bitter pill but it finally clicked the game I wanted to play isn't the game that exists. So instead of complaining, I removed myself, since I seem to be the minority...i was also called a boomer by my guild even though I'm 32.

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