Should UH have a DW option in Shadowlands?

[Nefarious Tea]

As many of us know, Frost DK's are getting a 2H option back in Shadowlands. Personally, I prefer DW (unless 2H is vastly better), but more power to the people who wanted 2H Frost back! Something you've been campaigning for is back in the game; you wanted it and you got it and I'm happy for you all

Anyway, since Frost is getting a 2H option back in SL, my question is: Should Unholy also receive the ability to dual wield back as well? It's been stuck with 2H for as long as frost has DW, after all.

[Razion]

I'd be nice if the whole DK class had DW/2H support again across all specs, even if it meant the 2h and DW version of the same specs played (more or less) the same when they switched between weapon sets.

I'd welcome it, though I'd probably be more excited for Blood getting DW support again. 1h STR weapons right now only really exist specifically for Frost DKs, or for Prot Warriors and Palaldins, so the distribution of tanking 1h weapon special effects is a little higher there so it seems more interesting. If Fury Warriors had the ability to DW 1h weapons again, I think maybe the space of 1h DW STR weapons with special effects that contribute to damage may be more prevalent and thus interesting to think about. And by extension, that probably makes tanking a little more fun theoretically as well, as I also tend to like the damage special effects on those STR 1h weapons for tank specs as well.

DKs getting another spec that supports DW seems to just support the loot pool in a way I find interesting all around so I'd consider it a win if either spec got it.

[Nefarious Tea]

I'd be nice if the whole DK class had DW/2H support again across all specs, even if it meant the 2h and DW version of the same specs played (more or less) the same when they switched between weapon sets.

I'd welcome it, though I'd probably be more excited for Blood getting DW support again. 1h STR weapons right now only really exist specifically for Frost DKs, or for Prot Warriors and Palaldins, so the distribution of tanking 1h weapon special effects is a little higher there so it seems more interesting. If Fury Warriors had the ability to DW 1h weapons again, I think maybe the space of 1h DW STR weapons with special effects that contribute to damage may be more prevalent and thus interesting to think about. And by extension, that probably makes tanking a little more fun theoretically as well, as I also tend to like the damage special effects on those STR 1h weapons for tank specs as well.

DKs getting another spec that supports DW seems to just support the loot pool in a way I find interesting all around so I'd consider it a win if either spec got it.

Well you're in luck; Fury is getting Single-Minded Fury back in Shadowlands as well.

[Razion]

Well you're in luck; Fury is getting Single-Minded Fury back in Shadowlands as well.

Did I miss an update somewhere? I don't see it mentioned anywhere in Blizzard's Shadowlands Class Updates for Warriors..

[cocomen2]

Why do even tie specs to specific weapons?

1) solo-loot (everyone for himself).
2) damage scales not from weapon damage but from AP.

Blizzard trolling its players.

[ZazuuPriest]

Did I miss an update somewhere? I don't see it mentioned anywhere in Blizzard's Shadowlands Class Updates for Warriors..

because it hasn't been. its conjecture on his part because Ion mentioned that they would visit the idea if they thought enough people wanted it when he was talking about giving frost 2h again in one interview.

[valky94]

its logical, if frost can have 2H back, unholy should get DW back aswell

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2) damage scales not from weapon damage but from AP.

the scaling is actually a mix of weapon dps and AP

[Puupi]

Yes, all DK specs should be 2h/dw OR 2h only.

[Nefarious Tea]

because it hasn't been. its conjecture on his part because Ion mentioned that they would visit the idea if they thought enough people wanted it when he was talking about giving frost 2h again in one interview.

It wasn't conjecture. I thought it had been announced too. Accidental misinformation on my part, soz

[Saltysquidoon]

This sounds like a great idea. It's not like in its present state 2h will always beweaker than dw because legion fundamentally designed the spec around dw and simply turning 2h back on for FS and oblit isn't going to fix that without serious work.

I sure hopeUnholy doesn't have any mechanics like that.

The issue isn't so much of 'is it possible', yeah with infinite time and resources anything is possible. The question is given the obviously limited time and resources blizzard is putting into core specs this expansion do you really want them wasting it on pointless rp wank instead of improving the spec?

[FossilFree]

It wasn't conjecture. I thought it had been announced too. Accidental misinformation on my part, soz

Well there was a hint that it could be coming on the front page.

Warrior
Fury

• Bladestorm Become an unstoppable storm of destructive force, striking up to 8 nearby targets for [ 500% of Attack Power ] Physical damage over 4 sec. You are immune to movement impairing and loss of control effects, but can use defensive abilities and avoid attacks. Generates 20 Rage over the duration. Requires Two-Handed Melee Weapon. Fury Warrior - Level 90 Talent. Fury Warrior - Level 90 Talent. Instant. 60 sec cooldown.

[Nefarious Tea]

This sounds like a great idea. It's not like in its present state 2h will always beweaker than dw because legion fundamentally designed the spec around dw and simply turning 2h back on for FS and oblit isn't going to fix that without serious work.

I sure hopeUnholy doesn't have any mechanics like that.

The issue isn't so much of 'is it possible', yeah with infinite time and resources anything is possible. The question is given the obviously limited time and resources blizzard is putting into core specs this expansion do you really want them wasting it on pointless rp wank instead of improving the spec?

Nothing you said makes any sense. There’s nothing mechanical about frost which makes it “fundamentally designed” around DW other than various skills having two one-hand weapons equipped as a requirement to use. That’s no different than saying mounts can only be used outdoors. It’s no commentary on the design of indoor areas.

All blizzard needs to do is add a little extra bit of coding that they can tweak which boosts spell damage of whichever has less weapon DPS to equalize. It’s just basic fractions

[Saltysquidoon]

Nothing you said makes any sense. There’s nothing mechanical about frost which makes it “fundamentally designed” around DW other than various skills having two one-hand weapons equipped as a requirement to use. That’s no different than saying mounts can only be used outdoors. It’s no commentary on the design of indoor areas.

Either you didn't read the spells I linked or in the alternative, you don't understand how swing timers work with the spec.

Killing machine is tied to white swings, more white swings means more KM procs. Hence everything else being equal (which it isn't) DW deals more damage by default
Runic Attenuation is tied to white swings, more white swings means more RA procs. Hence everything else being equal (which it isn't) DW hs more resources and plays faster and thus deals more damage.
Frozen pulse is tired to white swings, more white swing swings means more damage during FP windows.
Icy talons increases swing speed by a flat percentage thus more base white swings means a greater increase, so DW gets more value out of the talent simply by picking it and it feeds into all of the issues above.

DW also has access to two weapons which means two runeforges. Which means DW gets razor ice which means it scales better with mastery and in builds that focus on frost damage (BoS) resultantly does more damage. Additionally, KM oblits deal frost damage in SL which means 2h can't even fall back on the old "b...but oblit deals more damage with 2h"

All blizzard needs to do is add a little extra bit of coding that they can tweak which boosts spell damage of whichever has less weapon DPS to equalize. It’s just basic fractions

They never managed to do it in the eight years between wrath and legion* (before they threw their hands in the air), what makes you think they're going to be able to do it in SL.

"But it would just be a little extra work"
I'd rather the work that has to go into making 2h not shit go into making frost better on the whole.

*EDIT; During which 2h had talents and passives that it no longer has dedicated to it and they still couldn't even make it close.

[Sunnydee]

Speaking of which, i remember naxx 25 UH DW tanking. good times.

But i feel that they should stick with 2h for UH. just doesnt seem "right" in my eyes.
Would just be that one is better than the other, hard balancing and dumb to farm twice as many weapons imo.

[Nefarious Tea]

Speaking of which, i remember naxx 25 UH DW tanking. good times.

But i feel that they should stick with 2h for UH. just doesnt seem "right" in my eyes.
Would just be that one is better than the other, hard balancing and dumb to farm twice as many weapons imo.

So you're saying it would be too hard to balance UH if they gave it DW back... and yet even though Frost will have the same problems, you're fine with that?

[ro9ue]

Yeah, I don't really get the point why not. WoW is more like a MOBA than an RPG these days. You play your spec how its designed like a MOBA hero and you can't make any major choices about how your character plays.

[Yorimar]

So you're saying it would be too hard to balance UH if they gave it DW back... and yet even though Frost will have the same problems, you're fine with that?

where does he say that? :S

[Sunnydee]

So you're saying it would be too hard to balance UH if they gave it DW back... and yet even though Frost will have the same problems, you're fine with that?

Im saying, isnt it enough that they will have trouble balancing frost(which lets be honest, its prob gonna be DW that is gonna go out on the top) ya'll want to add issues to another specc too, making both our dps specs somewhat in a blurr which will most likely never be proper. Id rather see them focus on specs they way they should be instead of trying to hard and fail in every single way.

[Kithelle]

I was of the opinion Frost should have been the two handed crush your opponent to dust spec and Unholy would of been better as the fast death by a thousand cuts frenzy...so I'd like to see Unholy get DW.

[Nefarious Tea]

Im saying, isnt it enough that they will have trouble balancing frost(which lets be honest, its prob gonna be DW that is gonna go out on the top) ya'll want to add issues to another specc too, making both our dps specs somewhat in a blurr which will most likely never be proper. Id rather see them focus on specs they way they should be instead of trying to hard and fail in every single way.

Oh ok, yeah I understand what you mean now. It's something of a cynical point to be sure but also one I've shared in the past as well. I also concede that it's a good reason to not want Unholy to get a DW option.

I must simply confess I miss being able to be DW Unholy and 2H Frost.