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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    This is something that makes me believe they didn't really think about changing Maelstrom back before they did it. We don't "need" an ability that literally just exist to fill time - Rockbiter feels shitty enough to press right now even though it generates resource, pressing it just because it's an alternative to an empty GCD is not fun or engaging design. If the choice is Rockbiter existing purely to fill those holes, or having Rockbiter's damage rebalanced into white attacks and leaving those holes empty, I'd choose the latter every time. Now, if Blizzard can come up with something that is actually fun for that "filler" spot, something that actually interacts with the rest of the rotation (more than just being another potential Stormbringer proc), then awesome. But until then; bye bye Rockbiter, you won't be missed.
    It definitely feels like they didn't remove it because they're afraid of the backlash they'd get simply for pruning an ability, regardless of what it is. The fact that they brought back Searing Totem the way it was is indicative of this as well - they don't seem to really know what people miss/liked about the removed abilities.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    It definitely feels like they didn't remove it because they're afraid of the backlash they'd get simply for pruning an ability, regardless of what it is. The fact that they brought back Searing Totem the way it was is indicative of this as well - they don't seem to really know what people miss/liked about the removed abilities.
    Honestly, I think the current implementation of Searing Totem alone is enough to make me not play Shaman in SL. People complain about "maintenance buffs" like Inquisition all the time but at this point I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a "Cost 5 Maelstrom increase all Nature damage by 30% for x secs" buff than Searing Totem. They just completed missing the point of "unpruning" with Shaman... If you must bring Searing Totem back, then take advantage of the AoE cap and give us Flame Shock spread with LL again and make Searing Totem attack all targets with Flame Shock. That way the interaction is FS -> LL spread to 5/8 targets and then drop ST, and the "minigame" is judging how long the mobs will live for and whether it's better to drop ST when you only have FS on 4 of the targets because it'll get more casts in, or wait til you have full spread. Just give us something.

  3. #123
    I say just bring back the old searing flames which increases LL damage the longer an ST is hitting a single target, I mean you just use it on CD still and it just makes LL slightly more desirable (and synergises with hot hands) it's nothing special but it's something.

  4. #124
    Pit Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Super disappointed with enh changes in SL:

    - adding so many ele spells baseline (and Ele Blast as talent) really blurs the line between specs, and makes enh a second rate spec. It really shows with Covenants and Torghast, where ele spells are simply prioritized

    - adding static totems is beyond retarded. Ye it's sooo fun to drag those anywhere you go. What's this? Tank kites mobs, because Necrotic? Well shit, go recast those totems every few seconds pal. Why can't they make Windfury totem a passive aura, just like WW monks have? And why the hell bring back Searing?

    - and yes, there is an ability bloat. If stars align, and majority of on-use talents will be meta, gl with managing all of that.

    All in all, I am salty about the changes, because I tried enh a month ago on retail, and really liked this fast pace, proc bonanza gameplay, while STILL providing tons of utlity and having plenty of buttons/abilities to press. But SL seems like a spec regression, and here goes my plan of maining enh. And that's why for me moving to class identity from spec identity is an utter bullshit design choice.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2020-05-24 at 05:55 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  5. #125
    im pretty pised up with state of shaman especially after trying some arenas both 2vs2 and 3vs3 as enh and resto
    Things are not getting easier after trying some ret gamplay and if someone remember our gamplay from last 3 expansions may find it pretty similar, so all in all good things gone to pala on top of some already grate deff cds and some extra mobility talents and we are left with some crazy SS spam to not get to similiar in the end or something ffs
    Last edited by kosajk; 2020-05-25 at 11:07 AM.

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  6. #126
    Yes. End the ss spam. Gief defensives. We should be able to heal, at least as much as rogues. Lol this last sentence should be weird but it's not.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Yeah, I'd probably agree with that. I think the best totems are the ones that actively do something in combat like Liquid Magma or Capacitor Totem.
    It's kind of tough because the entire Shaman was made in Vanilla with the pretense that it was a buff class. So, if Shaman isn't a buff class, what else should it be defined as - interrupting, purging, off-heals? What other side element do you think should be amplified to an absurd degree to replace totems so that it becomes "the identity" - and for people who like totems, should they remain as abilities that deal damage? Historically I've thought totems acting like conduits for spells after they do something could be fun. Considering totems being short-duration is what they're doing in Shadowlands, maybe buffs at all from the totems are off the table entirely.


    Totems and weapon imbues should be baked together.

    For instance, combine Rockbiter with Strength of Earth or Stoneskin (revamping what strength of earth and stoneskin do). Everytime you rockbiter, it places the earth totem with a 30 yard range. Each new use of rockbiter replaces the previous earth totem placed by previous rockbiter.

    Lava Lash can do the same thing. Have Lava Lash also plave a Flametongue or Searing Totem). Each time you lava lash, it replaces the fire totem with a new one.

    Stormstrike could place a windfury totem, or a retooled grace of air/threat totem. Again, each new cast replaces it.

    This is just an idea. You can replace these totems with the appropriate elemental totem from the 4 totem system.

    This system would 1) make certain totems relevant without needing GCDs to replace them
    2) bake certain totems into attacks that already exist minimizing bloat while bringing back a buff aspect to shaman
    3) Allows totem art to remain releveant and useful

    Other totems could remain as is as cooldowns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Because the design of totems never evolved to match the game's newer design. They're not impactful or easy to maintain, nor are they powerful enough to warrant being as clumsily designed as they are. It's like everyone else moved towards using self-flying cars and we're still riding around on horses, shouting about how great the "good old days" of shoveling horse crap was.
    Lul what are you talking about? Grounding a huge ass chaos is important and saves everybodys life, tremoring pre fear to stop a never ending cc chain is important too.
    The Problem is we got rid of other important totems which were very important and easy to maintain during combat. Like poison cleansing totem, searing totem to keep rogues in combat and other ones. Guys that they totems aren't probably only did pve or never played during the golden era of wotlk

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Honestly, I think the current implementation of Searing Totem alone is enough to make me not play Shaman in SL. People complain about "maintenance buffs" like Inquisition all the time but at this point I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a "Cost 5 Maelstrom increase all Nature damage by 30% for x secs" buff than Searing Totem. They just completed missing the point of "unpruning" with Shaman... If you must bring Searing Totem back, then take advantage of the AoE cap and give us Flame Shock spread with LL again and make Searing Totem attack all targets with Flame Shock. That way the interaction is FS -> LL spread to 5/8 targets and then drop ST, and the "minigame" is judging how long the mobs will live for and whether it's better to drop ST when you only have FS on 4 of the targets because it'll get more casts in, or wait til you have full spread. Just give us something.
    wasn't there a point where Searing Totem applied DOT stacks that interacted with Lava Lash, with the targeting prioritizing the last Flame Shock? And then the gameplay choice was deciding when to use Magma Totem instead for multitarget fights, but if there was a priority target you'd keep using searing.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    wasn't there a point where Searing Totem applied DOT stacks that interacted with Lava Lash, with the targeting prioritizing the last Flame Shock? And then the gameplay choice was deciding when to use Magma Totem instead for multitarget fights, but if there was a priority target you'd keep using searing.
    Yes, Searing Flames used to stack the damage your next Lava Lash did each time it hit a target. Basically Searing Totem generated combo points and you would use LL at "5" or whatever. It's an interaction, but it's not really "fun", because LL couldn't do decent damage without stacks or it'd be overpowered.

    I think I'm just done with Enhancement. Legion was the peak, for me, and they don't seem interested in going back to that. Cata/MoP was fun, but it was fun then and I don't really think I would enjoy similar design again. I'm bored of having 15 different damaging "attacks" meaning none of them actually feel significant. I'm bored of "feast or famine" actually meaning "famine 100% of the time at low gear, famine 80% of the time in high gear". I feel like they had lightning (excuse the pun) in a bottle in Legion and they're unlikely to ever give me that feeling again, so meh. I'll reroll another melee that actually has a cohesive kit and play that instead of trying to give them the benefit of the doubt about Enh again.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Yes, Searing Flames used to stack the damage your next Lava Lash did each time it hit a target. Basically Searing Totem generated combo points and you would use LL at "5" or whatever. It's an interaction, but it's not really "fun", because LL couldn't do decent damage without stacks or it'd be overpowered.

    I think I'm just done with Enhancement. Legion was the peak, for me, and they don't seem interested in going back to that. Cata/MoP was fun, but it was fun then and I don't really think I would enjoy similar design again. I'm bored of having 15 different damaging "attacks" meaning none of them actually feel significant. I'm bored of "feast or famine" actually meaning "famine 100% of the time at low gear, famine 80% of the time in high gear". I feel like they had lightning (excuse the pun) in a bottle in Legion and they're unlikely to ever give me that feeling again, so meh. I'll reroll another melee that actually has a cohesive kit and play that instead of trying to give them the benefit of the doubt about Enh again.
    I totally feel you, ironically I quite Enhance in WoD so I missed out on Legion. I found a playstyle "home" in Windwalker, though I'm not a big fan of the class theme, but I find/found it to be the most similarly engaging; with the Combo Strikes mechanic forcing a continuous cycling of abilities like enh of old, without the ability bloat.

  12. #132
    Pit Lord Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyswayzee View Post
    Lul what are you talking about? Grounding a huge ass chaos is important and saves everybodys life, tremoring pre fear to stop a never ending cc chain is important too.
    The Problem is we got rid of other important totems which were very important and easy to maintain during combat. Like poison cleansing totem, searing totem to keep rogues in combat and other ones. Guys that they totems aren't probably only did pve or never played during the golden era of wotlk
    I played during wotlk, and totems back then were game-breaking. Totems like poison cleansing, and the old tremor totem were game-breaking. Blanket aoe debuff denial is ridiculous. Maybe that's great in pvp, where you could make a case to bring them back there, but what those totems did in pve was remove any decision-making from players because "Totems got it". Specifically, what I referred to was pve if that wasn't clear. I couldn't care less what pvp does or has.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I played during wotlk, and totems back then were game-breaking. Totems like poison cleansing, and the old tremor totem were game-breaking. Blanket aoe debuff denial is ridiculous. Maybe that's great in pvp, where you could make a case to bring them back there, but what those totems did in pve was remove any decision-making from players because "Totems got it". Specifically, what I referred to was pve if that wasn't clear. I couldn't care less what pvp does or has.

    This is wrong even for pve. Sure, it was set and forget for the shaman, but poison/disease cleansing still only worked for your group, rather than the entire raid. It was also a time when the game had less mana, so allowing stronger healers to actually heal while you dealt with those specific debuffs was fine. It also came at cost, as you couldn't use it with nature resist totem, healing stream, or the essential mana tide. Furthermore, Shamans also couldn't remove magic, and instead were disease and poison only.

    It was removed specifically because it hard countered DKs in WotLK for pvp. Think of all the times you had to use a cleansing totem for pve prior to DKs existing. There weren't many encounters at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I played during wotlk, and totems back then were game-breaking. Totems like poison cleansing, and the old tremor totem were game-breaking. Blanket aoe debuff denial is ridiculous. Maybe that's great in pvp, where you could make a case to bring them back there, but what those totems did in pve was remove any decision-making from players because "Totems got it". Specifically, what I referred to was pve if that wasn't clear. I couldn't care less what pvp does or has.
    Good thing they stopped doing that.

  15. #135
    Pit Lord Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    It says that's a pvp talent, soo....

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    It says that's a pvp talent, soo....
    As pointed out by the poster above, said totems were speficially removed because of PvP.

    And the decision making was hardly present because...what did you if your group became afflicted with a poison / disease?
    You dropped the totem, actual PvE situations where poisons are being constantly applied remained more the exception than the rule.

    It saves you four GCD's, but that's about it.

  17. #137
    Pit Lord Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    As pointed out by the poster above, said totems were speficially removed because of PvP.

    And the decision making was hardly present because...what did you if your group became afflicted with a poison / disease?
    You dropped the totem, actual PvE situations where poisons are being constantly applied remained more the exception than the rule.

    It saves you four GCD's, but that's about it.
    And the poster I was quoting wanted to bring back pointless, shitty totems we don't need. Like Cleansing totem. It was a fire and forget nonsense totem that I believe is a waste to bring back.

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