Thread: Blood DK Alpha

  1. #1

    Blood DK Alpha

    Good
    Blood tap is back and it's off the GCD, seems like it has no icd so when you spam it you can use both charges and potentially waste them if you have no recharging runes.

    AMZ's back for all DKs.

    Lichborne (and DC) is back. Theoretically, this means lichcoil is back but because LB gives leech now that's probably pvp only unless you're kiting in m+ and need to top yourself up.

    Rune Tap baseline, on the GCD. Yay?

    Raise dead and pet sac is back. More dps and more healing, win/win.

    Voracious and rapid decomp might actually be useful ever on the big boy m+ aoe pulls.

    Rune of sanguination might actually be viable.

    Mark of blood got buffed and moved away from bloodworms so it might actually see use.

    Bad
    Rune strike is gone. Feels bad for old school DKs.

    Rune of unending thirst (10% haste) requires you to get the KB so it's essentially solo only.

    FC is still probably still too strong, will probably scale too hard when trying to push damage and just become mandatory in m+ and raids after a certain survivability threshold.

    Ossuary is still the strongest talent in the game and will never not be picked so the row is dead for another expansion.

    Heartbreaker, blood drinker, haemostasis and blood worms are all still going to be go-to talents.

    New talent relish in blood is mind-numbingly bad and competes with ossuary meaning it's DoA.

    Tombstone, consumption and death pact are all still liquid shit.



    Overall Blood looks pretty good; Im disappointed at the lack of work done on talents (why is ossuary not baseline), but no one's getting a lot of work in that department. Other than that there's nothing really to complain about.
    Last edited by Saltysquidoon; 2020-05-04 at 12:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Big true on lack of work on the talents, it is still alpha so maybe they will still get to it but i do feel like we are going to be stuck with the exact same talent build as before. Also wish that consumption with the group leech component became baseline like it was in legion but thats never going to happen.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RagingJizz View Post
    Big true on lack of work on the talents, it is still alpha so maybe they will still get to it but i do feel like we are going to be stuck with the exact same talent build as before. Also wish that consumption with the group leech component became baseline like it was in legion but thats never going to happen.
    vampiric aura really was the main reason why consumption was good yeah.
    I'd love to have it back too

  4. #4
    Fluffy Kitten Zao's Avatar
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    I think balancing comes later. First is the bare bones implementation of new talents and abilities.
    Remember that it's not even Beta stage yet.

  5. #5
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    Something a lot of people don't realize is that bone shields scaling modifier is back up to 50% (from 40%), and that the minimum death strike is 10% (up from 7%). Vampiric blood lasts 12 seconds now and has 5% increased effect, while red thirst is 1.5 seconds off per runic power spent (up from 1).

    I'm unsure of the wording on the unending thirst runeforge. I'm not sure if every effect is based on kill, or just the 5% heal is based on kill. None of it mentions a duration, which is odd, leading me to believe that the movement speed and haste are just static.

    Heart breaker and blood drinker both occupy the same row, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that we still have options on that row. Tombstone, depending on the encounter might actually be a niche pick because it competes with both of these talents (if a scenario arises that you simply need another CD). This is far better balance than BFA because runestrike was absolutely useless.

    Death pact falls under the same criteria as tombstone, and I don't necessarily equate it to being absolute shit. If scenarios arise where you're only concerned about a specific burst of damage, death pact could be chosen. It's niche, but I think that's okay. Currently the only viable choice on that row is blood worms. Voracious is being buffed in duration from 6 to 8 seconds, and flatly buffs death strike, so it might be used more often.

    Even at a preliminary glance, our talent tree is a lot better than it was in BFA. The only row that needs buffs universally (as stated) are the talents the occupy the same row as ossuary. Consumption has been buffed in multiple ways (damage, and CD reduction) and is only a small buff away from being a potential pick over hemostasis. If consumption got the group leech component back it would probably be picked in some scenarios (granted the leech component can't be nearly as good as what it was in Legion).

    All in all, most of it looks really good. DKs benefit greatly from the rental systems of BFA going away because we stand to lose very little compared to other tanks who actually had good azerite traits or essence interactions.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Something a lot of people don't realize is that bone shields scaling modifier is back up to 50% (from 40%), and that the minimum death strike is 10% (up from 7%). Vampiric blood lasts 12 seconds now and has 5% increased effect, while red thirst is 1.5 seconds off per runic power spent (up from 1).
    Absolutely, I think blood's in a great place. This wasn't supposed to be a sky is falling post, just a discussion on the state of blood as it transitions from BFA to SL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    I'm unsure of the wording on the unending thirst runeforge. I'm not sure if every effect is based on kill, or just the 5% heal is based on kill. None of it mentions a duration, which is odd, leading me to believe that the movement speed and haste are just static.
    Everything but the move speed on death is a proc right now and it has to be your KB not just an assist. It's really unfortunate if the 10% haste had been baseline it would have felt great for tanking in shit gear (although I can see how wouldn't be fair to the other tanks).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Heart breaker and blood drinker both occupy the same row, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that we still have options on that row. Tombstone, depending on the encounter might actually be a niche pick because it competes with both of these talents (if a scenario arises that you simply need another CD). This is far better balance than BFA because runestrike was absolutely useless.
    I don't have a problem with heart breaker and blood drinker competing conceptually, it's actually one of the better rows because they each have definite use cases.
    I'm sadder that they chose to remove runestrike rather than reworking it to have a purpose, it's a very storied dk tank ability.
    While I agree tombstone is better than the old runestrike, I'm not sure it necessarily does anything that blood doesn't already have a tool for especially now rune tap is baseline that would make it more useful then the other two. I can see some sort of theoretical hyper burst situation where you just need another mitigation cd, its more an issue that it will never be worth it day-to-day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Death pact falls under the same criteria as tombstone, and I don't necessarily equate it to being absolute shit. If scenarios arise where you're only concerned about a specific burst of damage, death pact could be chosen. It's niche, but I think that's okay. Currently the only viable choice on that row is blood worms. Voracious is being buffed in duration from 6 to 8 seconds, and flatly buffs death strike, so it might be used more often.
    I'm happy voracious is being buffed and changed to actually have a use case. I'm worried however in M+ or after a certain breakpoint in raiding the worms will become the default pick simply because of the damage, which isn't necessarily a problem just a consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Even at a preliminary glance, our talent tree is a lot better than it was in BFA. The only row that needs buffs universally (as stated) are the talents the occupy the same row as ossuary. Consumption has been buffed in multiple ways (damage, and CD reduction) and is only a small buff away from being a potential pick over hemostasis. If consumption got the group leech component back it would probably be picked in some scenarios (granted the leech component can't be nearly as good as what it was in Legion).
    They really seriously need to make ossuary baseline or remove it; Aside from being obscenely strong (meaning you never ever don't take it), it has the 'hit combo problem', in that if you're playing blood 'right' you never don't feel its effects. As a rule, I think talents should always be something you notice when you play, not strictly in the sense of procs or more buttons but you have to be able to feel it.

    I think there's a really strong argument to make hemostasis baseline. It's essentially blood's 'AoE RP spender' if you don't take it blood effectively has no way to use RP to interact with aoe situations. I think removing it also opens up consumption as a real option, right now I can only see consumption ever being competitive in like a massive burst aoe situation where you have heaps of mobs that die quickly (like steamrolling an m+), I would really like it to outperform haemostasis on challenging content. The new rapid decomp could be useful in sustained cleave situations (or if there's a dnd or BP leggo or the night fae ability is actually good), so that's cool.

    You are generally correct that the tree's looking better then BFA, I guess this whole ossuary situation persisting from legion into SL is a pet peeve of mine. They can't not know it's too strong, it just has to be they're rather do nothing so it means less work in the long run because ossuary is always locked in.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Something a lot of people don't realize is that bone shields scaling modifier is back up to 50% (from 40%), and that the minimum death strike is 10% (up from 7%). Vampiric blood lasts 12 seconds now and has 5% increased effect, while red thirst is 1.5 seconds off per runic power spent (up from 1).

    I'm unsure of the wording on the unending thirst runeforge. I'm not sure if every effect is based on kill, or just the 5% heal is based on kill. None of it mentions a duration, which is odd, leading me to believe that the movement speed and haste are just static.

    Heart breaker and blood drinker both occupy the same row, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that we still have options on that row. Tombstone, depending on the encounter might actually be a niche pick because it competes with both of these talents (if a scenario arises that you simply need another CD). This is far better balance than BFA because runestrike was absolutely useless.

    Death pact falls under the same criteria as tombstone, and I don't necessarily equate it to being absolute shit. If scenarios arise where you're only concerned about a specific burst of damage, death pact could be chosen. It's niche, but I think that's okay. Currently the only viable choice on that row is blood worms. Voracious is being buffed in duration from 6 to 8 seconds, and flatly buffs death strike, so it might be used more often.

    Even at a preliminary glance, our talent tree is a lot better than it was in BFA. The only row that needs buffs universally (as stated) are the talents the occupy the same row as ossuary. Consumption has been buffed in multiple ways (damage, and CD reduction) and is only a small buff away from being a potential pick over hemostasis. If consumption got the group leech component back it would probably be picked in some scenarios (granted the leech component can't be nearly as good as what it was in Legion).

    All in all, most of it looks really good. DKs benefit greatly from the rental systems of BFA going away because we stand to lose very little compared to other tanks who actually had good azerite traits or essence interactions.
    Blood DK and Prot Pallies are looking so good for Shadowlands. Hopefully it stays that way.
    change can't wait.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Something a lot of people don't realize is that bone shields scaling modifier is back up to 50% (from 40%), and that the minimum death strike is 10% (up from 7%).

    I'm unsure of the wording on the unending thirst runeforge. I'm not sure if every effect is based on kill, or just the 5% heal is based on kill. None of it mentions a duration, which is odd, leading me to believe that the movement speed and haste are just static.
    The Bone Shield Value is up 10% from 40% to 50% yes. But every Tank Class' STR/AGI scaling spell has increased, its probably just a thing related to squish.
    Some by much larger values, for example Shield of the Righteous on Paladins went from 150% of STR to 190% of STR.

    Minimum Deathstrike is still 7% heal, you must have misread something: Shadowlands Death Strike
    Maybe you are reading a DPS DK's Deathstrike which has a Rank 2 same as Live BFA.
    Maybe you are reading a Blood DK's Deathstrike with the Buffed Voracious Talent?


    As for Unending Thirst Runeforge, the only passive effect is the movement speed while dead. Everything else is attached to killing an enemy.
    So definitely a levelling or PvP in a stretch ?? Runeforge.
    _____________________________________________
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Blood DK and Prot Pallies are looking so good for Shadowlands. Hopefully it stays that way.
    I'm hoping they change more of the talent choices up (same tree since Legion's class crap pruning) or at least add more things to each class's kit (or specs). Just BFA with a few changes sprinkled on with minimal effort.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Something a lot of people don't realize is that bone shields scaling modifier is back up to 50% (from 40%), and that the minimum death strike is 10% (up from 7%). Vampiric blood lasts 12 seconds now and has 5% increased effect, while red thirst is 1.5 seconds off per runic power spent (up from 1).

    I'm unsure of the wording on the unending thirst runeforge. I'm not sure if every effect is based on kill, or just the 5% heal is based on kill. None of it mentions a duration, which is odd, leading me to believe that the movement speed and haste are just static.

    Heart breaker and blood drinker both occupy the same row, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that we still have options on that row. Tombstone, depending on the encounter might actually be a niche pick because it competes with both of these talents (if a scenario arises that you simply need another CD). This is far better balance than BFA because runestrike was absolutely useless.

    Death pact falls under the same criteria as tombstone, and I don't necessarily equate it to being absolute shit. If scenarios arise where you're only concerned about a specific burst of damage, death pact could be chosen. It's niche, but I think that's okay. Currently the only viable choice on that row is blood worms. Voracious is being buffed in duration from 6 to 8 seconds, and flatly buffs death strike, so it might be used more often.

    Even at a preliminary glance, our talent tree is a lot better than it was in BFA. The only row that needs buffs universally (as stated) are the talents the occupy the same row as ossuary. Consumption has been buffed in multiple ways (damage, and CD reduction) and is only a small buff away from being a potential pick over hemostasis. If consumption got the group leech component back it would probably be picked in some scenarios (granted the leech component can't be nearly as good as what it was in Legion).

    All in all, most of it looks really good. DKs benefit greatly from the rental systems of BFA going away because we stand to lose very little compared to other tanks who actually had good azerite traits or essence interactions.
    same with brewmaster. losing systems will hurt less. im assuming losing corruption will hit other tanks harder as well. seeing how threat seems to be maintained with twilight dev for the big hp pool tanks. will be interesting to see how they tune damage.

    oh yeah, best part of shadowlands is warrior being sad

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