Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    I see nothing wrong with a pull timer before a boss. Never seen a pull timer before an obelisk though, that seems a little weird. I just start once the tank has.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  2. #42
    Our regular tank has a weak aura that announces in party chat and /say whenever he clicks on the obelisk. I also like the 3 second pull timer for potions and opener prep.

  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire Odintdk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    457
    Quote Originally Posted by antelope591 View Post
    Funny I've seen a DH leave because his opening meta was "ruined" in a similar manner too. Just DH things I guess.
    It is often a class synonymous with mongs, yes.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    What other challenging dungeon content without a timer exists? Please point me in that direction. Normal/heroic dungeons might as well not even exist at this point unless you play at the start of an expansion. You get in one nowadays and it's just one person soloing it while you try to keep up. That's not a dungeon lol.
    You are confused lol. I did not say there was "other challenging dungeon content", I said there is "other content". And besides, ruining mythic+ does not result in any "challenging dungeon content" anyway.

    If there isn't any other kind of content in the game keeping you engaged, maybe it's time to quit.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    There is. It's called ignore the timer.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Feel free to roll a tank. Bo one is stopping you.

    You're also more than welcome to not pretend everything is the tanks fault. Though that might be a bit more challenging.
    But if you ignore the timer there is no gear rewarded. I also want Personal loot gone and would rather see loot drop off each boss again, then you could just have bosses drop loot.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    But if you ignore the timer there is no gear rewarded. I also want Personal loot gone and would rather see loot drop off each boss again, then you could just have bosses drop loot.
    No, if you don't complete the dungeon you get no loot. But if that happens, maybe the adventure was misguided anyway.
    If you simply miss the timer, you still get loot, but your key wont upgrade.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Lubefist View Post
    I never said that "everything is tanks fault" or even anything along those lines. It's just painfully common that your average pug tank is so fucking full of himself/herself and they act like they are a handjob from god, gracing your grp with their presence, constantly threatening to leave as if they are totally irreplaceable and by rolling a tank spec they ascended to a higher state of gaming.
    Might be just you... cuz most of the time when I pugged as healer / dps I didn't notice anything like that.

    Oblivious tanks? Yea, happens in low keys same as dps who don't interrupt and healers who tunnel hp bars while standing in goop. Tanks who yolo pull on alts as if it was their overgeared main and then go "lol oops"? Sure. But tanks that "constantly threaten to leave"? Naaah... I don't think tanks ragequit groups more than healers or dps after "1 wipe" either, it's shit when this happens but I have seen it happen from every role, more common from dps but that's just the statistics when every dungeon has 3 dps for 1 healer / tank you'll see 3x the assholes from dps camp just because you go through bigger player pool.

    I'd say I've seen more tanks tanks than other roles drop group before dungeon started if they see undergeared dps in group, but tbh at that point nobody's key was burnt yet and better they leave then than after it starts.

  8. #48
    The Patient sykretts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Hell, apparently
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by Lubefist View Post
    - Tanks would stop being passive aggressive knobs with bloated egos
    This is a double edged sword. DPS and Heals constantly being knobs towards tanks since legion m+ has finally lead to the days where almost every tank in the pug scene is now the passive aggressive knob instead, doesn't matter if they're a 500 IO 470 ilv tank or a 475 ilv 3.5k io tank. It's impossible to go back to the old days because, well, we're human beings and we're already caught in the ego war. No one's going to take a step back and be nice to that passive aggressive tank to show them it can be done differently. It's gonna remain an eye for an eye situation hereon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    Just play with a group of people you know, problem solved...
    Right, because most of the stuff the OP mentioned cannot happen in a group of people you know? Somehow inviting 4 guildies or friends to your group suddenly turns them all into the perfect players? Man, I wish we had discovered this since way back in vanilla, maybe every player would be 130 IQ today w.r.t WoW. /s

    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post

    I'm a scub wanker at 2035 IO (I did just 15s in time for the achieve, that's the only reason I have this IO, I think I did run some 16s because BACK THEN when I got the achieve I couldn't find any groups running specific dungeons running 15s they were sometimes running 16s)
    Man, as a 2k IO dude who doesn't have much time to push or a proper group to push with cause every guild I join falls apart 2-3 months in, IDK if I should be feeling personally attacked by the quoted bit or not. You know you don't have to be a 4k IO player to be "good" at this game. Stop under-selling yourself, the quoted bit sounds so desperate its sad. Even though I'm only 2k IO, I'm usually top dps in my groups by a margin when running 15/16/17s, even with folks with 3k+ score in my groups. I can definitely push 20 and above if I want to or am lucky enough to find a compatible group with my timings, but the reality is I am limited by those factors, and that's ok. What is NOT ok is folks constantly judging every player they see in the game these days based on their IO scores, with no context whatsoever. This includes judging yourself.
    /rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Oblivious tanks? Yea, happens in low keys same as dps who don't interrupt and healers who tunnel hp bars while standing in goop. Tanks who yolo pull on alts as if it was their overgeared main and then go "lol oops"? Sure. But tanks that "constantly threaten to leave"? Naaah... I don't think tanks ragequit groups more than healers or dps after "1 wipe" either, it's shit when this happens but I have seen it happen from every role, more common from dps but that's just the statistics when every dungeon has 3 dps for 1 healer / tank you'll see 3x the assholes from dps camp just because you go through bigger player pool.

    I'd say I've seen more tanks tanks than other roles drop group before dungeon started if they see undergeared dps in group, but tbh at that point nobody's key was burnt yet and better they leave then than after it starts.
    That's funny, I've had mostly the opposite experience. It's come to the point where I now actively avoid inviting anybody above or below 200 IO of my own character.
    Let me give you just one teeny weeny example from last week when I was chasing that elusive timed TD for the +15 meta achievement:

    So I join this pug 16 TD group made by a rogue, who invites me on my DK and a Ret Paladin as the other 2 dps, so we're a triple melee combo. He then invites this a random 2k io healer and this 3.2k IO warrior tank (because obviously taking higher IO = guaranteed win right?). Guess what, the warrior tank decides to pull the ENTIRE outdoor area trash in one pull, something he later claims to have done in a +19 earlier, and then obviously and predictably fails hard. Why would he fail it on a +16 when he did it fine on a +19 you ask? Good question. See, here's the part he completely forgot, like all other brainwashed high io tanks who join lower key level groups, was that his strategy in the 19 involved 2 ranged DPS with 1 melee. See, what he did in our 16 was ask the rogue to pull everything for him and then he just proceeded to kite to no end. Me, an unholy dk, all my wound setup is pointless cuz he wouldn't stay in 1 spot for more than 1 second for me to make use of my DnD, you know...that thing we DKs are now infamous for from the MDI. Of course, the same thing also applied to the ret pala and a little less so for the rogue, because our setup for DPS would go waste as soon as the mobs would split up or stun us within Squeeze. Oh, and also since he just kept kiting, his aggro was so horrible that the first DnD I got in for a couple seconds to burst the wounds caused him to lose all aggro on most of the mobs, who then immediately turned to smash me in my face and insta kill me. Eventually 3 minutes in, we get almost nowhere, and we wipe, cuz of all the sanguine that the tank's unable to handle.
    Ok, so the tank has probably learned the lesson and will change his approach to better suit the group right? Nooooope. He proceeds to do the exact same pull once again, yet again wasting the next 6 minutes to kill the mobs before we got the chance to engage the Sand Queen. Not once did that dude make the connection that his strat just doesn't work with the current setup of the group.
    That's how blind most high IO players who join lower keys are. They are so stuck in their strats from their 19s, 20s and above that they do with their fixed group that likely has at least 1 range dps, that they fail to see how things can be done differently in a different key level. It's one of the main reasons why I'm a strong advocate against judging people by their IO because there's extremes on both sides of an IO score.

    This same scenario has happened so many times with high IO tanks in all the PUG keys I've done since season 1 bfa. And then of course, they proceed to leave when they embarrass themselves.
    Last edited by sykretts; 2020-05-06 at 11:28 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    That's funny, I've had mostly the opposite experience. It's come to the point where I now actively avoid inviting anybody above or below 200 IO of my own character.
    Tbh makes sense, high io players in mid range keys usually either are there because they're helping undergeared buddy (I'm fine with that as long as they state it before the dungeon, not everyone is fine doing free boosts though) or they're the type of player who's gonna insta leave if the dungeon goes 5 second too slow to their liking or someone has a different route than their "optimal" one. So yeah, not always the best idea to try to invite "highest score" if it's a score that suggests the person is doing way way higher keys every day than you're doing atm.

    I haven't pugged any high keys overall and defo not on alts, and if you're doing gear up runs I've seen stuff like tank not even noticing healer died and kept going forward... But lack of awareness is very common across every role in low keys.

    And yeah the "MDI copycats" happen not only among tanks, personally I've seen way too many resto druids that think their role is to sit in cat form 90% of the time, which can work if the group is very good at avoiding damage (cue MDI strats with healer kiting away pillar mobs while the group kills boss with no healer), but it's very risky in uncoordinated pugs and often leads to unnecessary deaths and loss of time. I don't mind healers dpsing when there's nothing to heal but there are too many of them that think the group should go on minimal healing as if it was a full premade not a pug.

  10. #50
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    6,670
    Quote Originally Posted by Lubefist View Post
    - Tanks would stop being passive aggressive knobs with bloated egos
    If you do most of the work in m+ youre allowed to have any ego you like, of course its easy to just blame the tank.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  11. #51
    The Patient sykretts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Hell, apparently
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    If you do most of the work in m+ youre allowed to have any ego you like, of course its easy to just blame the tank.
    That's such a fucked up worldview in general. Wow.

    It doesn't matter if you're a 3k tank in a +15 weekly no leaver run or a 1k tank in a +6 run with people on alts, doing most of the work does not automatically qualify you to have an ego that shows outwards. Sure, you can keep that shit bottled and finish that run and then vent it out to your buddies later, but knowingly joining a group that could very well be a case of you carrying them and then acting like you're their pariah, that's just a dick move. It doesn't matter what crowd you hang out with, you'll never get brownie points for that. Even the most evil of criminals know that beating a small man who's already down in the trenches is inhumane and is prison shanking worthy.

    Although I tend to believe in genuine karma, so, someone who's being a genuine dick to people online usually has it coming their way IRL one way or another. Maybe that egoistic 3.5k IO tank is gonna get shit on by his boss at work tomorrow, and though both instances are unrelated, it's calming to know that it's the likeliest outcome because there's no way that dude is smart IRL, because smart people know how to deal with situations with grace, so he's definitely a chad worth being shit on by their boss who then takes it out online.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    That's such a fucked up worldview in general. Wow.

    It doesn't matter if you're a 3k tank in a +15 weekly no leaver run or a 1k tank in a +6 run with people on alts, doing most of the work does not automatically qualify you to have an ego that shows outwards. Sure, you can keep that shit bottled and finish that run and then vent it out to your buddies later, but knowingly joining a group that could very well be a case of you carrying them and then acting like you're their pariah, that's just a dick move. It doesn't matter what crowd you hang out with, you'll never get brownie points for that. Even the most evil of criminals know that beating a small man who's already down in the trenches is inhumane and is prison shanking worthy.

    Although I tend to believe in genuine karma, so, someone who's being a genuine dick to people online usually has it coming their way IRL one way or another. Maybe that egoistic 3.5k IO tank is gonna get shit on by his boss at work tomorrow, and though both instances are unrelated, it's calming to know that it's the likeliest outcome because there's no way that dude is smart IRL, because smart people know how to deal with situations with grace, so he's definitely a chad worth being shit on by their boss who then takes it out online.
    Or you are just the shitter in question and this is you trying to justify doing less dps than the healer and derp walking into packs. Just sayin....

  13. #53
    What the hell is wrong with pull timers? That is just allowing you to be prepared for pre-potting or cooldowns if you need to.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    My mistake, probably should have explained this better. There are groups where after a few pulls you can see how the DPS or the general progress will be. I usually ask the tank to leave out the pulltimer and to pull faster if possible. You can still prepot, it's not that difficult.

    Even if the time is already extremely short, there are people (of course push groups, not weekly) who do a 5 second pulltimer when there are 2 minutes remaining or generally short time left.

    It has ripped so many keys apart it is just annoying and yet people wondering and complaining when the time runs out. I have learned that 5 seconds or 20 seconds remaining time can save alot.
    I understand your side, but I prefer a quick pulltimer, especially depending on the class I'm running, IE getting out a MFD or Army of the Dead.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Unless you’re regularly pushing +20s, if 15 seconds is regularly making or breaking your time, you need to get good.
    not everyone doing 15 keys or whatever number is 480 ilvl dude,some people progress in m+ with ilvl's,but yeah,complaining about 5 sec pull timers before a boss is kinda weird one,some classes need even more than 5 sec for a good pull,and in those cases those extra seconds spent pulling can actualy add more speed to the kill

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    people

    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that). example: Group stands still for 10 seconds. I reply with "?" and the whole group: (yEaH mAn eVeRyOnE wAiTinG fOr yOu tO dO yOur jOb).

    I just wanted to share my experience with you, what I experience every day in the mythic+ dungeons. Am I the only one who has such problems? I only play in pugs because I can't find a fixed group and I can't find one at the moment. What I do is voluntary, but I still have fun doing it. I just think that even in PUGs you can play more successfully if certain things are turned off.
    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar - - Install an entering/exiting Weak Aura/Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play. - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+ - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that). example: Group stands still for 10 seconds. I reply with "?" and the whole group: (yEaH mAn eVeRyOnE wAiTinG fOr yOu tO dO yOur jOb). - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people

    Mythic+ is fine, you just choose to play sub-optimally and then bitch and moan on forums that the system is broken

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    And yeah the "MDI copycats" happen not only among tanks, personally I've seen way too many resto druids that think their role is to sit in cat form 90% of the time, which can work if the group is very good at avoiding damage (cue MDI strats with healer kiting away pillar mobs while the group kills boss with no healer), but it's very risky in uncoordinated pugs and often leads to unnecessary deaths and loss of time. I don't mind healers dpsing when there's nothing to heal but there are too many of them that think the group should go on minimal healing as if it was a full premade not a pug.
    They higher keys you play, the more comfortable you are with the incoming damage patterns. I know there are trash pulls where I can keep the entire group at 30-50% HP, and tank at 70-80% HP, and no one is in risk of dying. Same applies to the damage lulls in numerous boss fights.

    If I pug a lower key than normal, I don't just assume that everyone is a monkey and that I should overcompensate by having everyone at 100% HP at all the times. I have no reason to. Now once in many runs I meet a paper tank, or a mage who stands in every possible swirlie or poodle in Shrine, and I will start focusing them a lot (and that's fun even if the damage is avoidable... because if they are taking a lot of damage, then healing is actually necessary). But if I don't see you taking an extreme amount of avoidable damage, I will obviously assume that you are a mechanically good player and do not need any babysitting.

    Occasionally some DPS players can surprise me by finding an exotic way to get one-shot from 50% HP to dead on a very safe pull. But I'll take that small risk any time of the day, because the party gains much more (my overall damage is comparable to DPS player damage in +15s and below) than it risks (me having to spend time combat ressing someone). And it's simply more fun for me to play the game, rather than having to overcompensate just in case.

    Now what might happen, is that some players might feel insecure about not being topped up, and lose performance because of that. I'm not sure I can help with that, because someone's lack of confidence is invisible to me. What's fun is when I get to hear the feedback from my friends who are more casual. As far back as in the middle of Legion, I heard that a tank liked playing with me because I did not try keeping this tank topped up at 100% HP all the time. So they told the lack of safety net and the lack of confidence pushed them into learning the ins and outs of their cooldown usage.

  18. #58
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    6,670
    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    That's such a fucked up worldview in general. Wow.

    It doesn't matter if you're a 3k tank in a +15 weekly no leaver run or a 1k tank in a +6 run with people on alts, doing most of the work does not automatically qualify you to have an ego that shows outwards. Sure, you can keep that shit bottled and finish that run and then vent it out to your buddies later, but knowingly joining a group that could very well be a case of you carrying them and then acting like you're their pariah, that's just a dick move. It doesn't matter what crowd you hang out with, you'll never get brownie points for that. Even the most evil of criminals know that beating a small man who's already down in the trenches is inhumane and is prison shanking worthy.

    Although I tend to believe in genuine karma, so, someone who's being a genuine dick to people online usually has it coming their way IRL one way or another. Maybe that egoistic 3.5k IO tank is gonna get shit on by his boss at work tomorrow, and though both instances are unrelated, it's calming to know that it's the likeliest outcome because there's no way that dude is smart IRL, because smart people know how to deal with situations with grace, so he's definitely a chad worth being shit on by their boss who then takes it out online.
    Imagine being so triggered at tanks that you wish they will lose their job. lul

    Quite interesting tho that you talk about karma while bein a jackass yourself.
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2020-05-07 at 03:12 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  19. #59
    The Patient sykretts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Hell, apparently
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    Or you are just the shitter in question and this is you trying to justify doing less dps than the healer and derp walking into packs. Just sayin....


    https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Sykretts
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...ne=20&new=true
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...aenor/Sykretts

    I don't hide because I have no reason to hide unlike you who's still sitting anonymous on the internet trying to call random people out. Top on DPS in all my m+ keys, usually top on interrupts and other CCs, I'm also that guy who taunts off the tank in clutch moments to save his life. Oh and did I mention I'm a DPS main but a majority of my 10-15 keys across all my hybrid classes are as a Tank? My alt and main profiles on rio won't lie.

    I've run a lot of +10s spread across my legion of 7 120's while gearing them, most of them as a Tank (warrior/pala/dk/dh) and almost always end up carrying the dungeon some way or another, be it routes, tank dps or whatever else. But you know what I never did when tanking those keys? Simple, I never let them know verbally or in text that I was doing them a favor. I accepted the reality of the run and got on with it. And if I could pass out tips that could improve stuff in a way that would help me and the others, I'd pass it on and accept that the group members would ignore it or take it onboard and help make things easier for themselves.
    It's called common fucking courtesy, or is this how low you've fallen as humans these days that the minimum accepted level of humility is 0 and ego is 100?

    You do you, dude.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Imagine being so triggered at tanks that you wish they will lose their job. lul

    Quite interesting tho that you talk about karma while bein a jackass yourself.
    triggered? You read my post the wrong way, or did you really need that /s at the end to give you a clue?

    The whole boss shitting on that dude thing is just an example of reality I was taking the opportunity to mention. 9 times out of 10, internet jerks are those who have it hard IRL. And I like that Karma is that way, not ashamed to say that out loud. My comment certainly hit somewhere close to home for you given your retort lol. Ouch, sorry, i guess?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Sykretts
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...ne=20&new=true
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...aenor/Sykretts

    I don't hide because I have no reason to hide unlike you who's still sitting anonymous on the internet trying to call random people out. Top on DPS in all my m+ keys, usually top on interrupts and other CCs, I'm also that guy who taunts off the tank in clutch moments to save his life. Oh and did I mention I'm a DPS main but a majority of my 10-15 keys across all my hybrid classes are as a Tank? My alt and main profiles on rio won't lie.

    I've run a lot of +10s spread across my legion of 7 120's while gearing them, most of them as a Tank (warrior/pala/dk/dh) and almost always end up carrying the dungeon some way or another, be it routes, tank dps or whatever else. But you know what I never did when tanking those keys? Simple, I never let them know verbally or in text that I was doing them a favor. I accepted the reality of the run and got on with it. And if I could pass out tips that could improve stuff in a way that would help me and the others, I'd pass it on and accept that the group members would ignore it or take it onboard and help make things easier for themselves.
    It's called common fucking courtesy, or is this how low you've fallen as humans these days that the minimum accepted level of humility is 0 and ego is 100?

    You do you, dude.

    - - - Updated - - -



    triggered? You read my post the wrong way, or did you really need that /s at the end to give you a clue?

    The whole boss shitting on that dude thing is just an example of reality I was taking the opportunity to mention. 9 times out of 10, internet jerks are those who have it hard IRL. And I like that Karma is that way, not ashamed to say that out loud. My comment certainly hit somewhere close to home for you given your retort lol. Ouch, sorry, i guess?
    Wait did you just brag about yourself than link a 1900 rio? And claim youv done 10s on alts as if anyone is supposed to be impressed. Guess i was right... shitter spotted.

    End of thread boys pack it up.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •