mythic+ would be much more enjoyable if...

[msdos]

I really did like when keys could deplete. I think the quality of 5 man players was higher overall back then because not so many people were doing it, one, and two they weren't really doing it to gear their character per say.
A lot of people who were afraid to do keys before 8.3 are dipping their toes in now, there's nothing stopping them. Most of the healers in my guild just stopped playing, but Blizzard is to blame for that for allowing Shamans to be so shitty at healing and for allowing Paladins to be so one-dimensional at healing in 5 mans (class design incompetence).

TL;DR: healers need to be buffed in 5 mans in terms of heal toolkit and design.

[scelero]

It's ok to dip out when you see red flags.

It's more enjoyable once you accept the fact that it's not always going to be enjoyable.

[ID811717]

Blizzard is to blame for that for allowing Shamans to be so shitty at healing and for allowing Paladins to be so one-dimensional at healing in 5 mans (class design incompetence).

What is wrong with the paladins?

[Dakara]

mythic+ would be much more enjoyable if...

....it didn't exist. /shrug

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

You were more serious about progression.

[Twdft]

Now what might happen, is that some players might feel insecure about not being topped up, and lose performance because of that. I'm not sure I can help with that, because someone's lack of confidence is invisible to me. What's fun is when I get to hear the feedback from my friends who are more casual. As far back as in the middle of Legion, I heard that a tank liked playing with me because I did not try keeping this tank topped up at 100% HP all the time. So they told the lack of safety net and the lack of confidence pushed them into learning the ins and outs of their cooldown usage.

Healers who top my Alt tanks up all the time have more healing to do, because I have the bad habit of letting my defenses slip a bit then. I know all my cooldowns and use them, but being on the brink of death for the whole dungeons stresses me out too much. I like it best when I see the health bar moving and can "feel" the damage coming in but be confident that the healer has my back in big pulls.

[exochaft]

I still find the timers issue a bit weird, as it pretty much only happens in pugs where there's no voice comms. I've failed 19's and 20's by a couple seconds a few times this season, but in general no one in the group really cared beyond "Ooo, so close... we could've optimized better or that RNG screwed us at that one part, oh well. Next key!" As others have stated, if you're worried about failing keys in a pug scenario and pointing at pull timers from a tank, you're likely missing the real reasons you failed the key.

In the +2 to +15 range, it's not very common to have tanks play around the CDs of the group when pugging, which can drastically affect your timer more than a 5 second pull timer on bosses. Also, RNG in certain dungeons (such as random pathing, mob patrols, spell queuing, etc) can drastically affect your timer even more. There's also the fact that 5 random people doing a M+ are probably not in sync with each other as much as they would with friends/guildies, so you can step on each other's toe, basically interfering or inhibiting others in the group... which slows keys down even more. All this assumes the pugs are even competent, which is certainly not a guarantee. All these factors are reasons that I have failed keys, a tank using timers to announce their intentions has never been a factor.

[exsanguinate]

- would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
- would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar - - Install an entering/exiting Weak Aura/Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
- would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play. - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
- would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+ - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
- would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
- would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people
- would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that). example: Group stands still for 10 seconds. I reply with "?" and the whole group: (yEaH mAn eVeRyOnE wAiTinG fOr yOu tO dO yOur jOb). - Make your own group/have lead/play with the same people

Mythic+ is fine, you just choose to play sub-optimally and then bitch and moan on forums that the system is broken

I have already counted on such statements and they are always the same. You don't always want to make your own groups, also because you usually don't get the key of your wishes.

You can't always excuse everything by telling people to make their own groups. It's not the way it works. Do you also make your own policy in your country if it doesn't work? Do you also make your own company if you don't enjoy your work? No you are looking for advice, want to exchange ideas with others about possible improvements or just want to throw up.

[Gaidax]

PuGs are shit, more news at 11.

Mythic + is plenty fun, when you do it as a guild group with a key that does not make your eyes bleed.

In PuGs? It's 4 out 5 cases of "Father, is it over?" when you get to that chest in the end.

[Army Dreamer]

mythic+ would be much more enjoyable if...

if it did not exist

[Gaidax]

if it did not exist

Whoa, watch out, we got a badass over here!

[Muh]

if it did not exist

Without my guild would probably have fallen apart. I am quite happy with m+ especially if you got a group of people who play together on a regular basis.

[Th3Scourge]

You can't always excuse everything by telling people to make their own groups. It's not the way it works. Do you also make your own policy in your country if it doesn't work? Do you also make your own company if you don't enjoy your work? No you are looking for advice, want to exchange ideas with others about possible improvements or just want to throw up.

You know what I do if I don't like the group I'm in? I make my own. I don't join pugs anymore because my time is better spent in game with the people I enjoy playing with, and if I do pug, I usually vet that player as much as I can.

The sooner you come to the realisation that pugging is cancerous, the better M+ will be

[Kaver]

people

- would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
- would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar

What is wrong with the pull timer? I mean for Pillars people should have a weakaura that tells them when the tank is activating it, but otherwise I cannot see why pull timers are a problem

[Nnyco]

triggered? You read my post the wrong way, or did you really need that /s at the end to give you a clue?

The whole boss shitting on that dude thing is just an example of reality I was taking the opportunity to mention. 9 times out of 10, internet jerks are those who have it hard IRL. And I like that Karma is that way, not ashamed to say that out loud. My comment certainly hit somewhere close to home for you given your retort lol. Ouch, sorry, i guess?

Schrödingers jackass haha, it was sarcasm based on the reaction of other people.

[ymirsson]

You can't always excuse everything by telling people to make their own groups. It's not the way it works. Do you also make your own policy in your country if it doesn't work? Do you also make your own company if you don't enjoy your work?

But unlike your country or your company, you can control who joins your group. Unless you have no friends or guild to make your own group.

[Zka]

If shitty affixes like bursting and grievous were removed or at least properly balanced.

- - - Updated - - -

TL;DR: healers need to be buffed in 5 mans in terms of heal toolkit and design.

Definitely. I played disc and the toolkit was basically not enough against grievous/bursting. (stopped playing 8 months ago) Single target heal is too low, bursting often requires aoe healing when there is literally nothing to hit. Clear class design issue, Blizz doesn't give a fuck apparently. Sure, I could heal 10+ dungeons with these affixes but it was unnecessarily stressful and inefficient.

[schwank05]

No, if you don't complete the dungeon you get no loot. But if that happens, maybe the adventure was misguided anyway.
If you simply miss the timer, you still get loot, but your key wont upgrade.

Wow, really I had no idea that is how it worked. In that case I may actually run some Mythic + dungeons with my own group knowing I don't have to do it fast for no reason.

[slickwilly]

What's wrong with a 5 second pull?

Its a timed event. You are ready when you started the dungeon. If the healer has mana its time to go.

Some classes have resources built up before the fight. They shrink wasting 5 seconds counting down.

[Azharok]

snip...Right, because most of the stuff the OP mentioned cannot happen in a group of people you know? Somehow inviting 4 guildies or friends to your group suddenly turns them all into the perfect players? Man, I wish we had discovered this since way back in vanilla, maybe every player would be 130 IQ today w.r.t WoW. /s

From OP :

- would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
Most likely you'll be on coms so it doesn't matter.
- would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
See above
- would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
Wouldn't happen if you play with people you know, and if it does, stop playing with them.
- would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
If you play with a group stuff like this are less likely to happen
- would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
Who even does that ?
- would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
Again see first point
- would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that). example: Group stands still for 10 seconds. I reply with "?" and the whole group: (yEaH mAn eVeRyOnE wAiTinG fOr yOu tO dO yOur jOb).
This wouldn't happen if you played with people you know.

Stop having such a combative attitude.
My response to OP's post solves these problems.

Also, little sidenote, the 3s pull timer on pillar is to inform the braindead members of the party that the tank hasn't actually entered the pillar to try and prevent non tanks to get oneshot by the miniboss (which happens WAY too often in pugs).

- - - Updated - - -

Lol, what about the DPS that need to setup their pre-pots / fonts etc, if you don't do a pull timer you can't pre-pot efficiently.