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  1. #1

    mythic+ would be much more enjoyable if...

    people

    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that). example: Group stands still for 10 seconds. I reply with "?" and the whole group: (yEaH mAn eVeRyOnE wAiTinG fOr yOu tO dO yOur jOb).

    I just wanted to share my experience with you, what I experience every day in the mythic+ dungeons. Am I the only one who has such problems? I only play in pugs because I can't find a fixed group and I can't find one at the moment. What I do is voluntary, but I still have fun doing it. I just think that even in PUGs you can play more successfully if certain things are turned off.
    Last edited by Hobbselle; 2020-05-04 at 05:23 PM.

  2. #2
    - Tanks would stop being passive aggressive knobs with bloated egos

  3. #3
    What's wrong with a 5 second pull?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    I just think that even in PUGs you can play more successfully if certain things are turned off.
    But you didn't ask for anything to be turned off, except maybe pull timers?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    people

    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that).

    I just wanted to share my experience with you, what I experience every day in the mythic+ dungeons. Am I the only one who has such problems? I only play in pugs because I can't find a fixed group and I can't find one at the moment. What I do is voluntary, but I still have fun doing it. I just think that even in PUGs you can play more successfully if certain things are turned off.
    Just play with a group of people you know, problem solved...
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  6. #6
    can't have ppl use font u kno

  7. #7
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    people

    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that).

    I just wanted to share my experience with you, what I experience every day in the mythic+ dungeons. Am I the only one who has such problems? I only play in pugs because I can't find a fixed group and I can't find one at the moment. What I do is voluntary, but I still have fun doing it. I just think that even in PUGs you can play more successfully if certain things are turned off.
    Get some friends and problem solved.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  8. #8
    There was a way to do it without a time constraint.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    Just play with a group of people you know, problem solved...
    This is the standard answer I always read when someone complains about PUGs, but this is not always possible. Not everyone is lucky enough to play in a big nice guild where you are being grouped for high keys the second you log in regardless your class/spec/ilvl.

    For example I have limited time to play, schedule varies and I usually cannot be online for more than about one consecutive hour. The second I’m online I start using dungeon finder because I’m always in a rush when it comes to M+. Hard to find a big nice guild in this case.

  10. #10
    What's wrong with pull timers before bosses/pillars? Especially if it's a group without voice chat. I don't pug a lot of m+, mostly do it with a guild group, but are pull timers a big issue in pugs?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    people

    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that).

    I just wanted to share my experience with you, what I experience every day in the mythic+ dungeons. Am I the only one who has such problems? I only play in pugs because I can't find a fixed group and I can't find one at the moment. What I do is voluntary, but I still have fun doing it. I just think that even in PUGs you can play more successfully if certain things are turned off.
    Find a group or get used to pugs.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sae View Post
    What's wrong with pull timers before bosses/pillars? Especially if it's a group without voice chat. I don't pug a lot of m+, mostly do it with a guild group, but are pull timers a big issue in pugs?
    My mistake, probably should have explained this better. There are groups where after a few pulls you can see how the DPS or the general progress will be. I usually ask the tank to leave out the pulltimer and to pull faster if possible. You can still prepot, it's not that difficult.

    Even if the time is already extremely short, there are people (of course push groups, not weekly) who do a 5 second pulltimer when there are 2 minutes remaining or generally short time left.

    It has ripped so many keys apart it is just annoying and yet people wondering and complaining when the time runs out. I have learned that 5 seconds or 20 seconds remaining time can save alot.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Ryuda's Avatar
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    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    I personally don't see anything wrong with this, even in PuGs, I frequently pre-cast/Pre-pot before a boss, and see other DPS players doing it as well. Especially on Tyrannical weeks. If your run is being made or broken by 15-25 seconds of 'waiting' to pull a boss, you likely have other problems.

    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    Like doing a timer to LoS? I can't say I've personally every done or experienced this, so no comment. I don't think it'd needed, but given how stunned I've seen even 2.5k-3k DPS be, I don't think it's inherently a bad idea.

    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    I personally find this to be much less common than folks complain about. When I actually think about it, in the what, 3.5-4 years that M+ has existed, I've probably only encountered maybe 2 dozen or so runs where someone has left immediately after this first wipe. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe I'm just better at vetting people since I do more than reduce a person to an IO score. Still, it does suck when it does happen, personally, I'd love to see Blizzard address this in some fashion, whether some kind of "Key Forgiveness", or a debuff/penalty to leavers.

    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    Preach. I find it amazing how many people still don't understand basic mechanics in certain dungeons, particularly launch dungeons.

    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    Again, not something I've ever really encountered. If I'm tanking, I usually just pull when I see their mana bar fill, and have never had anyone not get up and heal me, or bitch about me pulling when they were drinking.

    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    This would be ideal, and something that I frequently try to do, but I often find when I do, I either get met with:
    "Just go"
    "We'll figure it out a we go"
    Or just people not paying attention. I personally find this is one of the biggest pitfalls of pugging that I haven't managed to overcome, and of course, everyone seems to think that the way they do it is the only way, and get flustered/confused/bad/angry/etc. the second they have to adapt to something they hadn't seen before (And ironically, proceed to start bitching about how this should have been discussed before we started :eyeroll. Really, it's just a matter of the M+ community needing to detoxify itself, about a lot of things. I personally think it'll eventually happen, or pugging M+ will just die off as folks who don't want to deal with this stuff start to prioritize finding a consistent group, or in Shadowlands, depending how exactly the chest algorithm works, possibly cut out M+ completely.

    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that).
    Not really sure what you're saying with this, but I mean, particularly in 5-man content, you should be ready, willing, and able to use your class' tools. The fewer players in the group, the more personal responsibility increases, and the larger impact you as one player has on the group. As anecdotal evidence, I personally find it Astounding how few DH players actually interrupt spellcasters, even those with 2500+ IO rating, even being the one class that actually has a benefit to doing so. You'll probably find your runs go smoother as well if you really put in the extra effort to really learn all of your class' tools of the trade, and how best to use them in M+, since, as I mentioned, the fewer people in the group, the larger impact you as an individual can have on the success/failure of the run.
    so Warlords of Draenor is /'woɹː.loɹːdz ʌv 'ɖɹæːn.oɹː/.
    I've always loved how in an attempt to make pronunciation through text easier to understand people have created a seemingly alien cypher for which few people without a degree related to language would ever been able to understand.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    My mistake, probably should have explained this better. There are groups where after a few pulls you can see how the DPS or the general progress will be. I usually ask the tank to leave out the pulltimer and to pull faster if possible. You can still prepot, it's not that difficult.

    Even if the time is already extremely short, there are people (of course push groups, not weekly) who do a 5 second pulltimer when there are 2 minutes remaining or generally short time left.

    It has ripped so many keys apart it is just annoying and yet people wondering and complaining when the time runs out. I have learned that 5 seconds or 20 seconds remaining time can save alot.
    Like another poster said I think if a few seconds to prepare and pre-cast before each boss is costing you keys, then there are other issues that probably need addressing before the pull timer does. And the times where those few seconds matter, push groups with very high keys, are unlikely to be successfully pugged.

    I agree with most everything else you said in the OP though. Leavers, discussing tactics before starting, etc.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Odintdk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    people
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    These 3 points I fully agree with and really do bother me about people in M+. The leaving keys for almost no reason part is in particular a cancer in Mythic+. Just the other day for example, start of Freehold 19, we agree to do first 3 packs with BL, and we do a pull timer, DH pre pops his meta and then after the countdown ended, he fel rushes in less than a second after tank went in and barely had a chance to gain aggro---> gets one shot by an enforcer--> immediately leaves because he lost both BL and his pre meta.. Key ruined, because one idiot lost 1 cd and BL due to his OWN fucking mistake.

    The lack of base knowledge of dungeon boss mechanics is still super common too, 1 and a half year into BFA.. a frustrating amount of times we had to wipe to stuff like people still not switching to Bobby when he's stunning somebody for 10 seconds on 2nd boss of Toldagor, or the bombs on pyrolady boss there aswell, just to name a couple. How people make it to 2.5-3k scores whilst still not knowing many mythic+0 dungeon mechanics is light years beyond me.

  16. #16
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    people

    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    ...
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    TBH, these are actually a bit in conflict. On one hand, you don't want the "Go Go Go" and people quitting just because it isn't super-quick and super-easy, but then you do want to be okay with being so impatient that someone pausing for a *whole* 30 seconds is just too much.

    What would make M+ and all of WoW much more enjoyable is if Blizz stopped encouraging the "Go Go Go" mentality altogether.

    You want to know the real secret to why WoW was far more popular long ago? It is because the vast majority of people were playing a game...to play a game. You know, have fun.

    WoW started its decline with Wrath (when it stopped growing) and continued when more and more of the playerbase succumbed to the "Go Go Go" mentality. WoW struggles to regain its former glory because Blizz decided to support that mentality by replacing content with ever-higher levels of mindless time-gates and replacing interesting elements of abilities and gear with legendaries and same-gear-higher-ilvl.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    My mistake, probably should have explained this better. There are groups where after a few pulls you can see how the DPS or the general progress will be. I usually ask the tank to leave out the pulltimer and to pull faster if possible. You can still prepot, it's not that difficult.

    Even if the time is already extremely short, there are people (of course push groups, not weekly) who do a 5 second pulltimer when there are 2 minutes remaining or generally short time left.

    It has ripped so many keys apart it is just annoying and yet people wondering and complaining when the time runs out. I have learned that 5 seconds or 20 seconds remaining time can save alot.
    Unless you’re regularly pushing +20s, if 15 seconds is regularly making or breaking your time, you need to get good.
    change can't wait.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sae View Post
    Like another poster said I think if a few seconds to prepare and pre-cast before each boss is costing you keys, then there are other issues that probably need addressing before the pull timer does. And the times where those few seconds matter, push groups with very high keys, are unlikely to be successfully pugged.

    I agree with most everything else you said in the OP though. Leavers, discussing tactics before starting, etc.
    You're right, there are other issues - but the problem can only be solved individually and not by the group itself and most likely not during the run where everyone is under "stress". As i have a different one each time, so such things are usually very crucial... unfortunately

    Unless you’re regularly pushing +20s, if 15 seconds is regularly making or breaking your time, you need to get good.
    currently pushing between 19 - 20 and one key 21. haven't been higher yet.

  19. #19
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    people

    - would stop doing 5 second pull timer before boss
    - would stop doing 3 second pull timer before pillar
    - would stop leaving after 1 death or they are not used to the route or when the tank makes a different play.
    - would finally learn the basic dungeon mechanics, even with 3k+
    - would stop eating / drinking for the whole 30 sec duration
    - would discuss tactics before the dungeon starts and not during, so fails can happen
    - would stop telling me (just because I'm class XYZ I have to do that because it was always like that).

    I just wanted to share my experience with you, what I experience every day in the mythic+ dungeons. Am I the only one who has such problems? I only play in pugs because I can't find a fixed group and I can't find one at the moment. What I do is voluntary, but I still have fun doing it. I just think that even in PUGs you can play more successfully if certain things are turned off.
    Link your armory. I'm no god but all of the things you described besides the trash eating for 30 seconds is a bit frightening.

    All I run is pugs, I do run groups with friends from time to time but they are usually lower keys to help them or their friends gear up so we can pvp in style..

    Again if you're 3k, I highly doubt the pull timers and learning the dungeons are even a thing. I'm a scub wanker at 2035 IO (I did just 15s in time for the achieve, that's the only reason I have this IO, I think I did run some 16s because BACK THEN when I got the achieve I couldn't find any groups running specific dungeons running 15s they were sometimes running 16s)

    Again, I hope you find a dedicated static group that meets your needs OP because a lot of that stuff you listed really REALLY helps in my pugs

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    What's wrong with a 5 second pull?
    5 is too many. 3 is a much better timer. Also I would actually like to see tanks use pull timers to announce when they're going in, like a 1s timer and click immediately when you do the 1. I've had so many idiots fail runs because they were unaware of when the tank entered the obelisk.

    But anyone using above a 3s timer for boss pulls; that's way too long and you're wasting time. That's a solid 6s+ loss on the dungeon for practically nothing. Unless you have a spec/class in your group that will do a ton of extra DPS for the setup (no, Fire Mages pre-pull Pyro doesn't count) that makes it worth the extra seconds, you should just do 3s timers to save time. The majority of randos just run in though when they (hopefully) see the healer's mana above ~70%.

    That said, OP, I don't see the majority of what you're talking about and I *only* run 15+ pugs. I do see the 5s boss timers very seldom (and I do hate them), but the majority of your stuff doesn't happen at 2k+ IO.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

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