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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Thzz View Post
    well 3 weeks ago I had started running mythics for the 1st time ever. my post then was about that.

    now Im running 10s-12s . it seem to me Holy shortcomings are starting to come up. so my post now is about that.




    have no idea what point you are trying to make here.
    There are no Holy shortcomings, there is no class that cant do everything up to +18 without even trying, it is that easy after some gear/group management i guess, and i guess easy/hard weeks come into play but in reality they dont matter, counters comes with experience.

    The point i am trying to make is that your experience is basically around the fact that you are playing with bad players that make your life harder, which in turn you believe its a class problem.

    It is not, as Discipline i can accept it, the difficulty scaling compared to Holy with bad players is astronomical but even then, its just that, low skilled groups.

    Everything is a chain reaction, if bad DPS doesnt interrupt or dodge properly, in combination with tank that cant keep himself up for a long period, in combination with a healer that isnt sure what to do at each situation, aka experience, you get the results you are describing.

    Now add community perception and voila, bad players galore, aka sewerage of M+.
    Last edited by potis; 2020-05-30 at 06:53 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Secondly, try and keep in mind that tanking is by far, the hardest role in WoW. If it was easy, everyone would do it
    lmao dpsing WELL is the hardest role in a wow good meme though

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by OFiveNine View Post
    lmao dpsing WELL is the hardest role in a wow good meme though
    lol

    10 char.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2020-06-10 at 05:26 AM. Reason: Infracted

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by OFiveNine View Post
    lmao dpsing WELL is the hardest role in a wow good meme though
    A few years ago i'd agree with you. Today? Come on man. Most dps'ers rotations are as simple as the tanks are.

    I'm currently maining a havoc dh and a blood dk. Doing 15+ keys on both. I shit my pants every 2nd pack on my dk where as my dh can pull the numbers needed while sit with my kid on my lap and i'm half asleep

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    It's really sad that this is the tank's job... Knowing which mobs need to die first is something one would think the DPS should know on their own.
    Wrong. It has always been a tanks role to decide what dies first. Tanks are the defacto leader.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    A few years ago i'd agree with you. Today? Come on man. Most dps'ers rotations are as simple as the tanks are.

    I'm currently maining a havoc dh and a blood dk. Doing 15+ keys on both. I shit my pants every 2nd pack on my dk where as my dh can pull the numbers needed while sit with my kid on my lap and i'm half asleep
    You say they are as complex as each other but you shit your pants on the tank? That's a l2p issue. If you were correct about complexity then they should be as easy as each other and there should be an equal shit your pants ratio. There isn't so you're doing one of them wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Knowing which mobs to kill first / knowing when it's ok to AoE everything instead / knowing what NEEDS to be interrupted and what can be let through 100% IS the job of the Dps, not the Tank.

    And anybody trying to tell you otherwise are shitters who should be ashamed of themselves and rethink their entire life.

    Imagine being wrong and putting so much emphasis on the importance of a game. You should buy a mirror, buddy. Then you need to have a good look at yourself because your priorities are completely out of step with reality. When you realise what a mistake you have been making with your life ask yourself this. Who is the defacto leader of the group? This is why you are wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    A few years ago i'd agree with you. Today? Come on man. Most dps'ers rotations are as simple as the tanks are.

    I'm currently maining a havoc dh and a blood dk. Doing 15+ keys on both. I shit my pants every 2nd pack on my dk where as my dh can pull the numbers needed while sit with my kid on my lap and i'm half asleep
    hmu with your orange parses

    If we're talking about how braindead classes are, every role and every class is braindead. It's dealing with the extra mechanics while maintaining your role and honestly tanking is probably the easiest role in the game right now. Some 23-25 pulls are aids on a tank sure but i'd rather a lower skilled tank vs higher skill dps than the opposite

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Wrong. It has always been a tanks role to decide what dies first. Tanks are the defacto leader.
    Wrong, what dies first is not up to the tank, it's a matter of overall Warcraft community decision on which mobs are the highest priority in every pull (and it's fairly obvious which ones are), once that is decided, it becomes the baseline strat that 99% of groups follow because it's the most efficient way to do it, especially in dungeons are on a timer with M+. It should not be up to the tank to point that out to the DPS as it wastes time, the DPS, assuming the DPS have at least run the dungeon before, should already know what mobs in a given pull are dangerous and need to die first.

    I'm a DPS, saying this as a DPS, anyone who knows me would tell you I fucking hate tanking, and I still, as a DPS, am telling you it's your job to learn these things too, not the tank's job to hold your hand through the whole dungeon.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2020-06-09 at 10:04 PM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  8. #68
    Whenever I see a disc in my group I know it's bad.

  9. #69
    What most people do not realize is how key level and affixes interact with one another and with the dungeon overall.

    You have to know how to handle certain things and the many tricks in each dungeon.
    Snapping to certain spots, standing on certain spots or LOSing, melting, feigning, vanishing off abilities.

    It is easy to blame someone for not kicking when you are supposed to LOS that cast.
    Or not kicking a cast on a raging caster because without raging it does not matter. But suddenly people are oneshot.

    The higher the key gets the more DPS and especially Healers are becoming the bottleneck.

    DPS has to suddenly watch out for mechanics that were no problem one key level lower and they have to pull their weight in regards of damage.
    Certain pulls and mobs just have to die and certain abilities just can’t go through.

    Healers are often surprised and overwhelmed by the random damage because leech and stuff from dps is no longer enough to compensate.

    You can not pull slower because the key gets higher. You might avoid pulling certain things together yes. But the higher the key gets the bigger the pulls get. You just Plan them and your CDs accordingly.

    Bursting is a prime example. Some healers just get it done. Others are slowing down the run like crazy because the can not heal 3 stacks properly.

    There are some healers that can pull 30-40k dps while topping everybody and others can not keep up.

    The funny part...I saw a lot of tanks apologizing for mistakes and even dps. But I did seldom see a healer say „sorry I can’t keep up“.

    If a run does not go smooth for the lack of dps or healing tank can decide to slow down and risk not timing the key and getting blamed by the dps. Or to get blamed by the healer(and the dps) because he pulls to much or to fast.
    Last edited by Sámsa; 2020-06-09 at 10:40 PM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Wrong. It has always been a tanks role to decide what dies first. Tanks are the defacto leader.

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    You say they are as complex as each other but you shit your pants on the tank? That's a l2p issue. If you were correct about complexity then they should be as easy as each other and there should be an equal shit your pants ratio. There isn't so you're doing one of them wrong.

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    Imagine being wrong and putting so much emphasis on the importance of a game. You should buy a mirror, buddy. Then you need to have a good look at yourself because your priorities are completely out of step with reality. When you realise what a mistake you have been making with your life ask yourself this. Who is the defacto leader of the group? This is why you are wrong.
    I love it when people just dont get context.

    I shit my pants because on 15+ as a dk your health is spiking a lot because their mitigation isnt as great as other tanks, so you have to time your limited self heals very well. Thats just one of the reasons playing a dk tank us much more difficult then a dh dps in m+.

    The leader role, the pulls, the correct % on different weaks to make timers with underperforming dps'sers. Thats all stuff a dps doesnt have to account for.

    I'd suspect anyone doing at least 12+ to have some basic insight on this tho so perhaps you dont get it cus you just dont do m+?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OFiveNine View Post
    hmu with your orange parses

    If we're talking about how braindead classes are, every role and every class is braindead. It's dealing with the extra mechanics while maintaining your role and honestly tanking is probably the easiest role in the game right now. Some 23-25 pulls are aids on a tank sure but i'd rather a lower skilled tank vs higher skill dps than the opposite
    The tank literally does all the same things a dps does, except more. What in the world do you build your weird ass logic on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Wrong, what dies first is not up to the tank, it's a matter of overall Warcraft community decision on which mobs are the highest priority in every pull (and it's fairly obvious which ones are), once that is decided, it becomes the baseline strat that 99% of groups follow because it's the most efficient way to do it, especially in dungeons are on a timer with M+. It should not be up to the tank to point that out to the DPS as it wastes time, the DPS, assuming the DPS have at least run the dungeon before, should already know what mobs in a given pull are dangerous and need to die first.

    I'm a DPS, saying this as a DPS, anyone who knows me would tell you I fucking hate tanking, and I still, as a DPS, am telling you it's your job to learn these things too, not the tank's job to hold your hand through the whole dungeon.
    I agree with your thought process. But in reality this just isnt how it works. Most dps need to be told what to do via marks. I've seen people with 2k+ rating still not knowing what to do with golden glue in kings rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sámsa View Post
    SNIP.
    I've seen one or two healers actually apologize for their healing(most blame their class, necrotic or bursting). I've seen far more healers just straight up leave a dungeon pulling 30k hps or something like that. Sometimes that can get really frustrating as a tank because you are just sat there, knowing you used your cd's correctly. Watching your health slowly drain away and die.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Wrong. It has always been a tanks role to decide what dies first. Tanks are the defacto leader.

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    You say they are as complex as each other but you shit your pants on the tank? That's a l2p issue. If you were correct about complexity then they should be as easy as each other and there should be an equal shit your pants ratio. There isn't so you're doing one of them wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Imagine being wrong and putting so much emphasis on the importance of a game. You should buy a mirror, buddy. Then you need to have a good look at yourself because your priorities are completely out of step with reality. When you realise what a mistake you have been making with your life ask yourself this. Who is the defacto leader of the group? This is why you are wrong.
    The defacto leader of the group is whoever you assigned to do calls (for actual premade groups), and whoever knows the dungeons best (for pugs).

    Please please please tell me you have never once in your life played Dps.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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