Page 1 of 6
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    No matter the topic, someone will find a way to redirect it to complain about their current aggro.
    Posts
    3,253

    X'era, Argus, Kil'jaedan, N'zoth and co in Shadowlands

    I'm calling it now.
    We're likely to see X'era, Argus, Kil'jaedan, and possibly at least one of our old god buddies in Shadowlands, since lore states they are well and truly dead...

    ...which means they are probably hanging out in shadowlands bitching about Azerothians (And to some extent Argussians because Draenei, LFD, and Draenorians because orcs)

    So, who's ready to speculate about a patch or two being dedicated to some of those who we thought we were rid of?

  2. #2
    Don't Demons like Argus and Kil'jaedan go to the Twisting Nether when they die? And I sincerely doubt we'll see a Naaru there.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Seasz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Perú
    Posts
    430
    I wonder if we'll see Deathwing/Neltharion as well. His soul for surely must've been cast directly to the Maw.

  4. #4
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    No matter the topic, someone will find a way to redirect it to complain about their current aggro.
    Posts
    3,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Katsutomai View Post
    Don't Demons like Argus and Kil'jaedan go to the Twisting Nether when they die? And I sincerely doubt we'll see a Naaru there.
    Argus is a Titan, not a demon. And, Chronicle 3's assertion about demons and the twisting nether (which was canon even before C3) got retconned six months later in Shadows of Argus, where lore NOW states that they did so *because* of the Death Titan, Argus The Unmaker, who now ironically is dead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Seasz View Post
    I wonder if we'll see Deathwing/Neltharion as well. His soul for surely must've been cast directly to the Maw.
    "I was having a delightful time being tortured until you adventurers showed up to kill me again!"

  5. #5
    Huh.. I see. Well who knows at this point then.

  6. #6
    Argus sped up the resurrection of demons in the twisting nether, he wasn't the sole reason for it. Their tactic of throwing uneding waves of demons because they get insta-rezzed has been broken, not their general trait of having a demon soul.

    Why killing a demon in the twisting nether would kill it completely though, that is is an entirely diffrent matter and another of these cases that makes no sense. If anything that should just speed up the resurrection process. It would make sense if you "kill the soul" in the twisting nether, but losing it's mortal shell? No, all that changes is that the soul doesn't have to waft back through time and space. Bad lore is bad.

    Edit: You also won't see Kil'Jaeden there. Demons and most likely Titans as well have entirely seperate mechanisms regarding their birth and death. The shadowlands are for souls of mortals
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2020-05-06 at 04:24 AM.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  7. #7
    from all of them, the only one i could possibly see there is X'era, even tho we don't know if the Naaru "go to heaven" after being exploded by demon eye-lasers


    Quote Originally Posted by Seasz View Post
    I wonder if we'll see Deathwing/Neltharion as well. His soul for surely must've been cast directly to the Maw.
    that would be interesting, and if that happens, we would see him in his corrupted form or the good ol' Neltharion, being regretful about what happened to him and his flight.
    The doom of worlds wakes once more!

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    3,122
    N'zoth is actually leading Bastion probably
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ancient One View Post
    that would be interesting, and if that happens, we would see him in his corrupted form or the good ol' Neltharion, being regretful about what happened to him and his flight.
    We don't even know if dragons go there in the first place, we have one vague datamined hint with Ysera, but she was special because of her connection to Elune, the Dream, the way she died and her status as a former aspect.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  10. #10
    Legendary! Thepersona's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Puerto Montt, Chile
    Posts
    6,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Argus is a Titan, not a demon. And, Chronicle 3's assertion about demons and the twisting nether (which was canon even before C3) got retconned six months later in Shadows of Argus, where lore NOW states that they did so *because* of the Death Titan, Argus The Unmaker, who now ironically is dead.
    Afaik it wasnt retconned. Argus just sped up the proccess of re-formation of demons/made possible for demons that were slain in Argus to reform. Because remember that Mardum was created to house demonic souls that were slain by sargeras before he turned evil and broke that place. Demonic souls that were slain in the twisting nether (Archimonde/Kil'jaeden) cannot be reformed and i dunno what happens to them... they're destroyed? stay in the twisting nether for all eternity?
    Last edited by Thepersona; 2020-05-06 at 04:33 AM.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  11. #11
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    No matter the topic, someone will find a way to redirect it to complain about their current aggro.
    Posts
    3,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Argus sped up the resurrection of demons in the twisting nether, he wasn't the sole reason for it. Their tactic of throwing uneding waves of demons because they get insta-rezzed has been broken, not their general trait of having a demon soul.

    Why killing a demon in the twisting nether would kill it completely though, that is is an entirely diffrent matter and another of these cases that makes no sense. If anything that should just speed up the resurrection process. It would make sense if you "kill the soul" in the twisting nether, but losing it's mortal shell? No, all that changes is that the soul doesn't have to waft back through time and space. Bad lore is bad.

    Edit: You also won't see Kil'Jaeden there. Demons and most likely Titans as well have entirely seperate mechanisms regarding their birth and death. The shadowlands are for souls of mortals
    KJ died in the twisting nether, meaning... he's actually dead.
    Not respawning in the TN dead, but dead dead and therefore shadowlands material.

    and the zones we've seen in SL include mortal and immortal souls
    *cough* Hakkar *cough*

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    KJ died in the twisting nether, meaning... he's actually dead.
    Not respawning in the TN dead, but dead dead and therefore shadowlands material.

    and the zones we've seen in SL include mortal and immortal souls
    *cough* Hakkar *cough*
    Archimonde is another possibility since AFAIK they've stated that the mythic version of the fight where he teleports the entire raid into the Nether is the canon version of the fight, so he has also been killed in the Nether.

    I don't think they'll be making appearances though; I believe that the Twisting Nether is their Shadowlands essentially. As it stands right now, the Wild Gods on Azeroth go to Ardenweald when they're killed on Azeroth to regenerate, which is in the Shadowlands. I'd imagine if they were killed there, they'd be dead-dead and not just pop up in another part of Shadowlands like some weird sort of recycling system. Essentially, the Twisting Nether is the demons' Ardenweald; they go there until they regain power and a physical form and then come forth into what we would consider normal reality again. Honestly, the Twisting Nether itself may just be a part of the Shadowlands itself, as in a "zone" like the others we'll be visiting, which is why demonic rebirth happens there. We've also not seen a proper Titan respawning yet either, but I doubt we'll find Argus there either. Similar to the Nether, I'd imagine that if Titans were able to be reborn over time they'd have their own "zone" in the Shadowlands as well, same with Void creatures like the Old Gods.

    The easy explanation is that there are two layers of reality that we can access, the physical plane and the death plane which includes (but is not limited to) the Maw, Maldraxxus, Revendreth, Bastion, Ardenweald, the Twisting Nether, Titan Respawnyville, and Void Recycle Town which all make up what we call the Shadowlands together. Just because we have limited zones to explore doesn't necessarily mean there aren't other Shadowlands zones that exist in terms of where souls go.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Detroit,Michigan,USA
    Posts
    5,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    I'm calling it now.
    We're likely to see X'era, Argus, Kil'jaedan, and possibly at least one of our old god buddies in Shadowlands, since lore states they are well and truly dead...

    ...which means they are probably hanging out in shadowlands bitching about Azerothians (And to some extent Argussians because Draenei, LFD, and Draenorians because orcs)

    So, who's ready to speculate about a patch or two being dedicated to some of those who we thought we were rid of?
    Argus's lifeforce was used to power the tractor beam that locked Sargeras to the pantheon.....his soul is gone...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Katsutomai View Post
    Don't Demons like Argus and Kil'jaedan go to the Twisting Nether when they die? And I sincerely doubt we'll see a Naaru there.
    People ask the question what happens *after* that. Once they die in the Twisting Nether, therefore are properly dead, do they go the Shadowlands then? I say no, they just die, like in real life. Kaputt, finito, mort. But people do ask that.

    And fun fact about a Naaru. One has been datamined to show up in one of the Revendreth dungeons. We don't know how or why it's there. Perhaps it's been trying to convert the Shadowlands to the Light.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    5,590
    Do all of these have a soul / anima, though? That seems to be the one necessity to have the Shadowlands be your thereafter.

    Naaru seem to be some sort of living souls. Their "great cycle" is the whole void/light schtick, like a flickering light, or rather, stars dying and becoming black holes, and black holes imploding to create light.

    When you become a demon permanently you sacrifice your soul, don't you?

    Old Gods are the fleshy manifestations of the will of the Void Lords. I dont think they have any Anima.

    Titans seem so far "above" the realm of mortals that they have their own schtick too. Their "essence" becomes a constellation-like thing as we saw in the Eonar fight. Doesnt seem like they have souls that go "elsewhere" either.
    I did not hit that snowmound, it's not true! It's bullshit, I did not hit it. I did NAHT.
    Oh hai Yeti

  16. #16
    Void beings don't go to the Shadowlands because their native plane is the Void. The Titans created Ny'alotha along with the elemental planes and bound the Old Gods' souls to it to prevent them from returning to the Void and notifying the Void Lords about Azeroth and her location. With the destruction of Ny'alotha, the Void Lords are now aware of where Azeroth is and a full invasion will be launched shortly.

    I will post the full theory later.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Molvonos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Everywhere, Nowhere, Anywhere
    Posts
    722
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Void beings don't go to the Shadowlands because their native plane is the Void. The Titans created Ny'alotha along with the elemental planes and bound the Old Gods' souls to it to prevent them from returning to the Void and notifying the Void Lords about Azeroth and her location. With the destruction of Ny'alotha, the Void Lords are now aware of where Azeroth is and a full invasion will be launched shortly.

    I will post the full theory later.

    Source?

    I know they created the Elemental Planes, but no where have I seen any indication they created Ny'alotha.

    That was N'zoth's creation, as the seat of his power during the era of the Black Empire (whether or not Ny'alotha was the entirety of the black empire, spanning all of the Old Gods various empires is up for debate, I imagine).

    **Edit:

    Wait, that doesn't even make any sense. The Old Gods were physical entities and locked away on or within Azeroth. C'Thun was considered dead by the Titans and left alone, but it had just enough power to cause us, mere mortals, problems, so we killed it again.

    Yogg-Saron had been causing issues for a while, in an effort to break it's physical prison (as evidenced by the same ethereal chains that we saw break in the Cinematic after Azshara's defeat). Again, we go and killed the Old God for being a pain in the ass.

    The remains of Y'Shaarj, its heart, in all its physical glory, is what empowered Garrosh at the end of the Pandaria campaign. Again, he caused us issues, as a result of his Old God Corruption/madness, and we kicked his butt (He is later fisted to death by Thrall in AU-Nagrand, but that's another story).

    And then there's N'zoth, who had been trapped within the earth. It was the reason behind Nelthareon's madness, it's the reason behind the Nightmare, it's the font of so many damn issues. And then we enter Ny'alotha proper, march ourselves into it's fleshy sphincter and kill the toothy nubbin till it was dead.

    The Void Lords, as much as we know, didn't so much as care who found a titan to corrupt, but rather, just wanted to corrupt one. So they sent out the Old Gods into the physical plane as if they're spores (Slime molds? Seems fitting). Countless Old Gods in the infinitesimal effort to hit one planet that hopefully had a titan world-soul to corrupt. But almost everything about the Old Gods themselves is 100% physical. We, the heros, end up becoming Old God Pathogens (eeyyyy, we're COVID-19 to the Old Gods).

    Technically, as soon as any of the Old Gods hit Azeroth, way back when, they'd have notified the Void Lords. Problem is, according to lore, Void Lords cannot, by any means except the corruption of a Titan World-Soul, manifest in the physical plane. Hell, they can't even touch it in the slightest without sufficient power (Is Dimensius a proper Void Lord or is he just 'a void lord', which is a higher evolution of our warlock blueberries).

    Also, the Old Gods were warring against each other, likely because each of them wanted that power for themselves and the corruption would have manifested akin to say, Cho'Gall with C'thun's power, or Garrosh with Y'Shaarj's power. Who knows if said Corrupted World-Soul would have even listened to the Void Lords at that point, if it's supposedly more powerful than they are.
    Last edited by Molvonos; 2020-05-06 at 09:16 AM.
    Just because I advocate your ability to play and enjoy WoW Classic doesn't mean I think it'll be successful.

    "Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be." ~Jonnusthegreat

  18. #18
    SL will become the greatest lore and character recycling shit show, wow has ever seen. even Legions recycling will look tiny compared with SL in the end.

    this will become the most horrible cheap shit possible (lore wise and character wise). and years after SL ppl will tell each other „remember that great story and characters from BfA ? omg that was so much better than all the recycled characters and cheap shit stories from SL“.

    i am afraid.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2020-05-06 at 09:05 AM.

  19. #19
    Titan Arafal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Stand Proud in the Shadow of Shame
    Posts
    14,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Argus is a Titan, not a demon. And, Chronicle 3's assertion about demons and the twisting nether (which was canon even before C3) got retconned six months later in Shadows of Argus, where lore NOW states that they did so *because* of the Death Titan, Argus The Unmaker, who now ironically is dead.
    Nothing of the sort was retconned whatsoever.

    Argus was used as an anchor and an acceleration device for their reformation.
    Demons have always and will always regenerate in the nether.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!

  20. #20
    From our current knowledge, the Shadowlands are only the natural destination for mortal souls. Demons, Naaru, Titans etc. may go there, but they won't automatically get sent on death.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •