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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    I fucking cant understand Ion. Why say this and put it to test if you dont have any intention to change things based on feedback? Ferals, holy priest, shadow priest, havoc (they need some love cmon) holy pala and other specs.... we need change on this, big changes and the feedback is already crystal clear on those. So, what do we do now?
    major spec rework as in going from wod enh shaman to legion enh shaman, they won't drop a major rework like that.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Fury, Arms, elemental, Vengeance, Protection, retribution, Shadow, ice, arcane, Holy paladin, balance. Just from the top of my head.

    The differences might not be that big, but they DO play differently. Some for the better(enhacement) some for the worst (shadow) but a lot of they play differently. The clases that play the same are basically DK, rogue and monk from what I remember.

    There will not be any great reworks, we already knew that. But the small change in WW for example is already enough to draw me back in the spec. So I think we should count these small changes, mainly when there is abilities from the other covenants that can change how a class play.
    are u on drugs or something? Frost mage is literally 1 to 1 the same Balance beside the eclipse "change" the same just the dmg window changed a bit DK especially Frost is the same just because of antimagic zone and ghoul doesn't make it any different... same goes for arms nothing rly changed have u watched any alpha streams or atleast looked at the current trees?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    major spec rework as in going from wod enh shaman to legion enh shaman, they won't drop a major rework like that.
    we dont need major reworks, we need fixes in the fundamentals.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    we dont need major reworks, we need fixes in the fundamentals.
    but if that's the case then why are you complaining about why there won't be any major reworks?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    but if that's the case then why are you complaining about why there won't be any major reworks?
    i fear things will be like the previous alpha. Nothing was changed after the first alpha build last time. Im worried.

  6. #26
    This is not the feedback I've heard. You're also conflating balance and gameplay which is a bad idea.

    Yes, DH still feels good. No, it is not the only spec which feels good.

    Yes, balance at this point in the alpha is wacky. No, this doesn't mean DH will necessarily be overpowered on launch.
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    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Sluvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icoblablubb View Post
    are u on drugs or something? Frost mage is literally 1 to 1 the same Balance beside the eclipse "change" the same just the dmg window changed a bit DK especially Frost is the same just because of antimagic zone and ghoul doesn't make it any different... same goes for arms nothing rly changed have u watched any alpha streams or atleast looked at the current trees?
    frost mage has to time missile speed with their skills, it does not play the same. Balance also does not play the same. DK, as I said, play the same.

    I have watched alpha streams, that is where I got this info. Not to mention that are new abilities.

    Listen guys, I'm not saying that we had a rework, we did not. In fact I know the changes are minimal, but they are not non existant and some specs play differently because of it. That is literally all I am saying.

    I mean, we lost a bunch of azerite traits, and each class got a new button to press. It is expected that some changes might happen. As a WW, having Xuen as a CD is pretty awesome and it changes a little bit the way that I play.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    I've seen a lot of contradictory opinions on that so far, imo. i can agree with preaches break down the most yet while i can't agree with belular and some smaller youtubers so far.

    The problem i see in a lot of specs is that with the removal of the patchworks and fixes they got with bfa (traits/essences) you can see the bad bare bones of that spec, returning some old abilities won't really save that, some "unpruning" doesn't even make sense anymore (example hunters mark).

    Some specs even get reworked to worse iterations, what the fuck are the mage specs on alpha right now?

    Sadly Ion already said in an interview (that one with the french girl and her hot accent i think) that there won't be major spec reworks, i'd say that some specs just really need it though.

    Edit: it was the interview with sloot:
    There are no plans for another large drop of additional class changes. They wanted to drop large changes and revamps early so there is plenty of time to get feedback and change things.

    So basically, if you don't like how your spec plays on alpha now,play something else, there will be no bigger changes.
    Rip again, feral and shadow.
    I shudder to think how Shadowlands will be for its entire lifespan if this is actually true. Rogues received barely any changes besides poisons and Slice and Dice being given to all specs. Subtlety will still be a dead spec and needs a major rework.

    The thing about DHs is that Blizzard doesn't see anything wrong with them or else they would've received nerfs in the initial Shadowlands changes. That tells you something about how they currently operate. If a spec is OP they will leave it that way. If a spec is dead they will leave it that way. What's the point of only doing major changes to classes once per expansion if they don't even correct anything?

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Memes and shit aside.

    People are drunk if they don't think shit will change pretty substantially for just about every spec. It's a combination of losing all the current toys and getting a bunch of new fresh toys from the get go - that alone with shatter the current situation to pieces.

    Will Fire Mage be as OPAF without bracers, corruptions and shit that carries it? Maybe Arcane will suddenly be the new OPAF spec with Necrolord active being busted there for it. Every class gets 2 powerful abilities and they can customize it for some toxic and unexpected combos that people did not even math out yet AND on top of that you get a shitton of soulbind options with some crazy shit like Cheat Death or Retribution there and we barely seen maybe 30% of soulbinds that will be available on launch so far.

    And to add to that, we don't even know what the legendary items we are supposedly building will do, but I bet it won't be "+140 haste rating" as its special effect.

    In short, shit will change A LOT and nobody knows how it will turn out, let alone what will happen in 9.1, 9.2 and so on.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I'm not going to hit you with 'its only alpha' but numbers-wise there is no way to know what's looking strong yet.

    That said, If every class is basically just bfa again, wouldn't you just play what you're playing now though?
    It doesn't even matter because almost no class plays the same way as bfa. He's just a troll
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  11. #31
    I hope so lol
    Planning on maining it

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Fury, Arms, elemental, Vengeance, Protection, retribution, Shadow, ice, arcane, Holy paladin, balance. Just from the top of my head.

    The differences might not be that big, but they DO play differently. Some for the better(enhacement) some for the worst (shadow) but a lot of they play differently. The clases that play the same are basically DK, rogue and monk from what I remember.

    There will not be any great reworks, we already knew that. But the small change in WW for example is already enough to draw me back in the spec. So I think we should count these small changes, mainly when there is abilities from the other covenants that can change how a class play.
    Having the same skills but a slightly different priority because the numbers are different doesn't mean "playing differently"; that means meaningful mechanical changes. Almost all specs have none (so far).
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans Sluvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    Having the same skills but a slightly different priority because the numbers are different doesn't mean "playing differently"; that means meaningful mechanical changes. Almost all specs have none (so far).
    No, but having different skills and some baselined means playing diferently. The difference is not that great, true, but it still is different enough for me to consider different classes.

    Now please, just drop this line of thought because honestly, it's tiresome having to explain nuance every now and then on this forum.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Fury, Arms, elemental, Vengeance, Protection, retribution, Shadow, ice, arcane, Holy paladin, balance. Just from the top of my head.

    The differences might not be that big, but they DO play differently. Some for the better(enhacement) some for the worst (shadow) but a lot of they play differently. The clases that play the same are basically DK, rogue and monk from what I remember.

    There will not be any great reworks, we already knew that. But the small change in WW for example is already enough to draw me back in the spec. So I think we should count these small changes, mainly when there is abilities from the other covenants that can change how a class play.
    Rogue is playing differently, its squishier, the pick pocket crimson vial system isn't enabled yet, the classes are still going through changes due to baseline poisons and snd.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Memes and shit aside.

    People are drunk if they don't think shit will change pretty substantially for just about every spec. It's a combination of losing all the current toys and getting a bunch of new fresh toys from the get go - that alone with shatter the current situation to pieces.

    Will Fire Mage be as OPAF without bracers, corruptions and shit that carries it? Maybe Arcane will suddenly be the new OPAF spec with Necrolord active being busted there for it. Every class gets 2 powerful abilities and they can customize it for some toxic and unexpected combos that people did not even math out yet AND on top of that you get a shitton of soulbind options with some crazy shit like Cheat Death or Retribution there and we barely seen maybe 30% of soulbinds that will be available on launch so far.

    And to add to that, we don't even know what the legendary items we are supposedly building will do, but I bet it won't be "+140 haste rating" as its special effect.

    In short, shit will change A LOT and nobody knows how it will turn out, let alone what will happen in 9.1, 9.2 and so on.
    But wouldn't it be more important that specs feel at least good/decent as stand alone and the borrowed power stuff just adds to it? Talking about numbers really doesn't matter now, arcane could be the number 1 dps spec by far thanks to numbers tuning, i still wouldn't want to touch it with the current gcd illnes that spec currently has on alpha.

    A lot of this is subjective of course but there have been more controversial specs with design flaws since legion basically that really need some digging into by the devs imo.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Rogue is playing differently, its squishier, the pick pocket crimson vial system isn't enabled yet, the classes are still going through changes due to baseline poisons and snd.
    I mean let's be real here, muti is the same except you have to keep up snd and toxic blade is rolled into shiv.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Memes and shit aside.

    People are drunk if they don't think shit will change pretty substantially for just about every spec. It's a combination of losing all the current toys and getting a bunch of new fresh toys from the get go - that alone with shatter the current situation to pieces.

    Will Fire Mage be as OPAF without bracers, corruptions and shit that carries it? Maybe Arcane will suddenly be the new OPAF spec with Necrolord active being busted there for it. Every class gets 2 powerful abilities and they can customize it for some toxic and unexpected combos that people did not even math out yet AND on top of that you get a shitton of soulbind options with some crazy shit like Cheat Death or Retribution there and we barely seen maybe 30% of soulbinds that will be available on launch so far.

    And to add to that, we don't even know what the legendary items we are supposedly building will do, but I bet it won't be "+140 haste rating" as its special effect.

    In short, shit will change A LOT and nobody knows how it will turn out, let alone what will happen in 9.1, 9.2 and so on.
    Stop trying to make opaf a thing. It was lame in 2015, and the situation did not improve since. Especially since we have the good old FOTM.

    OT: The main issue is the mixed signals from blizzard. They drop class changes early, saying they want more time for testing. The changes are lacking, slapstick and uninspired, so people start posting on forums like it's rapture time. And then devs follow it up with "no more major changes" and complete silence on forums for over a month.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    My Death knight was my First 90,100,110 and 120. It is going to be my First level 60 as well.


    Just play whichever class makes you happy man.
    i think it will be your second

  19. #39
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
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    It's the newest class, so they want them to shine more than others for the time being. But thankfully most demon hunters I've met are kids that don't know how to play very good, so it balances itself out.

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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Memes and shit aside.

    People are drunk if they don't think shit will change pretty substantially for just about every spec. It's a combination of losing all the current toys and getting a bunch of new fresh toys from the get go - that alone with shatter the current situation to pieces.

    Will Fire Mage be as OPAF without bracers, corruptions and shit that carries it? Maybe Arcane will suddenly be the new OPAF spec with Necrolord active being busted there for it. Every class gets 2 powerful abilities and they can customize it for some toxic and unexpected combos that people did not even math out yet AND on top of that you get a shitton of soulbind options with some crazy shit like Cheat Death or Retribution there and we barely seen maybe 30% of soulbinds that will be available on launch so far.

    And to add to that, we don't even know what the legendary items we are supposedly building will do, but I bet it won't be "+140 haste rating" as its special effect.

    In short, shit will change A LOT and nobody knows how it will turn out, let alone what will happen in 9.1, 9.2 and so on.
    but dude, will necromancers be OP in 10.0?

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